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"Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread
(https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=239783)
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Rasmus got his chance to play basically everyday the 2nd half of last year and half this season so far and hasn't responded well at all. So what's the excuse now? |
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[QUOTE=BigRedChief;7739309]I would agree that this team plays sloppy baseball but its also showing some signs of being a pretty tough club to beat if they keep believing that they can come back in any game no matter even if they are down 8 runs. Most of the Larussa's teams lately have folded when down. Thats something positive that may help to offset the horrible fundamental baseball this team plays.
Glad to see Albert look "normal" and hit the ball hard several times. :thumb:[/QUOTE] If Albert can get back to himself at the plate....it could help Colby. Colby is a f'n head case. |
Two weeks ago Colby was ripping the ball. His bat while ALbert went down was HUGE. But he is so dam inconsistent. Can the front office rely on him in his YO YO offensive production ?
I'm not ready to give up on him and his talent either, but he has been given the opprotunities to show his talent. he shows flashes of brilliance (at times). HJ suggested to send him down for a couple of weeks. That might do the job, might not. If he is going through a divorce, then his head is like a pan of scrambled eggs right now. We can't have a player starting nightly who's head is a scrambled mess like the 1970's era cocain addicted Cardinals team. MO and TLR need to have a sit down meeting with our young CF to find out whats going on if they haven't already. If he is in a divorce, his head is NOT where it needs to be. |
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Shit, how many Gold Gloves did Keith Hernandez win while doing bumps and shots in the clubhouse between innings? Sack up, Colby. LMAO |
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If Miller and Martinez stay on their projected path. The 2013-14 Cardinals could have one of the top pitching staffs ever with these 4 pitchers starting games in the playoffs. Waino, Garcia, Miller and Martinez. From a column on STL Today: Shelby Miller, who is 4-1 with a 1.90 earned run average at Springfield after being promoted from Class A Palm Beach, In 95 2/3 combined innings at Class A Palm Beach and Class AA Springfield this year, Miller has struck out 124. Martinez, recently promoted form Low-A Quad Cities to High-A Palm Beach, uncorked a couple of 98 mile an hour fastballs while pitching for the World team in the fourth inning. The first-year pro from the Dominican Republic was the youngest player competing in the game. The righthander has fanned 60 and walked 20 in 49 1/3 minor league innings. |
In the PD today, Joe Strauss claims the Rays might still be interested in Rasmus.
Doesn't make a ton of sense with them having Upton, but who knows. |
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I was thinking about this earlier today while consummating a fantasy trade. If Jeff ****ing Francoeur can swipe 15 bags by the break, why can't Colby be a 20-25 steal guy? A: TLR |
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Hocheaver for Rasmus. Before you laugh, Hocheaver is a Dave Duncan pitcher seriousally. It would suck donkey balls to see it happen but Hocheaver would florish under him. |
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**** you, Hocheaver for Rasmus. LMAO |
Yost runs like me playing MVP baseball on Gamecube, trying to get my players stats up don't care if I win or lose. Got to get Gotay to 54 steals!
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Question is, would you trade him for a rental(Bell) or would you trade him with a prospect for a legit SP? |
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Move McClellan back to the pen. The few people I know that have their ear to the ground in regards to MLB think that Shields of Tampa is their target. I have no idea how that's possible - I don't even see Tampa needing Colby - much less us giving enough to get Shields. Sounds like pure speculation to me, though these guys are usually pretty much spot-on. |
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Maybe it's only UNTIL 2012? ****, if they think Upton's lazy, wait until they see Rasmus. |
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And that's coming from someone who's had it with Colby's shit, and his dad's shit. |
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Rasmus for a current MLB starting #3 or high #4 pitcher should be the fair trade? or am I off base in his percieved value by other baseball teams? Jay goes to center. McCellahan goes to the bullpen and joins Sanchez, Boggs, Lynn and Salas. |
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A comment on Kyle Davies in another thread got me thinking.
Would Matt Holliday have won the HR Derby last night had Franklin been pitching to him instead of Yadi? LMAO |
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Yes? The deal is done. Suckers. |
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The Cardinals hit into another DP.
Oh wait. |
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So, Milwaukee deals for K-Rod.
Not sure how this really helps them. Dude's not going to be happy as a setup guy, and Axford's going to be looking over his shoulder at the first sign of struggling. Not to mention, K-Rod only needs to appear in 21 more games to have his $17M option vested. Makes no sense to me. |
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Garcia signs 4 year extension:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...9bb30f31a.html Quote:
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The Brewers made no secret of the fact that they were looking for an 8th inning guy. By getting Rodriguez, they just moved either Axford or K-rod into the role. In either event, they've strengthened their bullpen immensely. The Brewers will acknowledge that they're going for broke this season; hence the trades they're making. This deal definitely makes them a better ballclub and the PTBNL aren't likely to be of any great import. It was a pure salary dump by the Mets. If strengthening the 8th inning gets the Brewers to the playoff, the deal was well worth it. |
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FWIW, Keith Law doesn't think this deal is worth more than a single win for Milwaukee. And my mistake on the appearances/finishes. I read that wrong. Quote:
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It should be noted that we also got cash from the Mets as part of the deal. The cash basically covers his salary for the rest of this year. Add it all up and we essentially got K-Rod for $3.5 million (next year's buyout) and a couple of lowly prospects (none of our top prospects are on the "list" of possible players to be named later). Good deal if you ask me. |
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And the Brewers are imploding their minor league system for nothing. They're basically in a win it all mode. If they don't win this season, chances are we won't see them win for awhile. |
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And while I don't agree with Law when he says the deal won't net them a win, I do agree that they should have targeted a guy that misses more bats. Law is dead-on when he talks about Milwaukee's below average defense, specifically on the infield. |
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I have made no secret of my general disdain for Law, but his use of win shares to discuss the value of an 8th inning guy over 3 months of play is completely asinine. If K-Rod is able to get 1 clutch out that the previously leaky Brewers bullpen wasn't able to get - boom: win added. Will it add a full win-share? No, nothing close, but that's not at all useful when discussing the value of such a high leverage, low use position like setup man. The Brewers had a bad bullpen. Now they have no worse than an average bullpen (probably slightly above average). Better still, they have a borderline excellent back end of their bullpen (certainly better than STLs). That's a huge huge deal coming down the stretch and it simply doesn't quantify well. Law's being something of a statistic simpleton here. This move makes it harder for STL to win the division and will likely only cost the Brewers a little bit of money in the long run. |
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FTR, what are your thoughts on potentially dealing Rasmus? |
DeWitt did an interview on 590 this morning.
Here's what someone summed about it: Quote:
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The question isn't "Does Colby have talent?", the question is "is that talent worth waiting on?" Ultimately I'm certain he's a much more talented ballplayer than Jay, but I'm not certain he's going to remain a much more productive ballplayer than Jay. And with Craig coming back soon (and having arguably the best stick of the bunch), I see a logjam of OFers. If the Rays are interested in Rasmus as rumored, I'd take Matt Moore off their hands in a heartbeat for him. Can you imagine a 2013 rotation of Wainwright, Garcia, Shelby, Moore, Martinez? 5 guys with plus stuff, all of them with slightly different stuff and 2 of them throw with their wrong hand. It would be a dominant, young, cheap rotation that could actually allow us to compete with the aging/expensive Holliday/Pujols core. Trading Rasmus makes sense if you can get the right return for him. I don't see Moore as an impossible dream there. |
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Moore's a great get, but he's two years away. This club isn't making the playoffs this year without getting some help in the rotation, IMO. Granted, it can be argued that even if they move for a #3 starter, they're still not good enough to compete in the playoffs, so make the deal that helps long-term. |
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The kid's a 22 yr old that has dominated the minors for coming on his 3rd season. He's only 2 years away in exceedingly cautious organizations like STL, but he's absolutely a ML product right now. Did you see him in the futures game? Hell, I think he could actually step right in and immediately be the 4th starter on this squad. The kid is nails, absolute nails. He can absolutely help us this season. Beyond that, if you have a chance to get the kid - you get him. The name I'm hearing most often is Shields, but he's pitching way over his head right now. Trading Rasmus for a stopgap #2 starter and foregoing a probable ace caliber starter all in the name of a moderately improved chance of getting your shit pushed in by Philly is just not a wise decision. Sorry, but the possibility of having a rotation fronted by 3 elite starters in their mid/low 20s, all of whom possess 200K stuff and give you different looks every day gets me absolutely rock hard. And hell, that's not even talking about a guy that should've won a CY 2 years ago or the kid we just gave a 4 yr deal. Jaime Garcia as your 5th starter? Are you kidding me? The Royals are drooling over their farm system right now, but if you make that deal do you realize the Cards would have the #1, #3 and #9 SP prospects in all of major league baseball (and #9 has been coming with a bullet; Martinez is exploding up the lists right now)? Look at the direction MLB is going - that's how you're going to win championships in the coming years. I'll take a diminished chance at success this season (where we're a darkhorse, at best) if it means having the best rotation in baseball for 1/2 a decade. |
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He's only 2 years away in exceedingly cautious organizations like STL, I'd be shocked if we saw the kid this year, or even early next. I'd be excited as **** about the future of this staff, though. |
And FWIW, I can't imagine the Rays - under any circumstances - trading this kid.
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Pineda was 22 when the season started. Jurrjens was a full-time starter at 22, Hanson, King Felix, Lincecum, Bumgarner, Kershaw, CC, etc... All of them were full time starting pitchers by the time they were 22 yrs old. Moore would be 23 next season and has a polished approach already. The problem with young pitchers is usually their secondary offerings but Moore has actually polished up his changeup to make it a plus pitch and has always had arguably the best curve in the minors (he throws the infamous knuckle curve; ask the NL West how they like seeing that thing when Kershaw cuts it loose). Badass is badass. The stuff is there, the makeup is there, the track record is there (3 years of dominance in the minors). And it's not like the kid is 19; 22 is old enough to play. It's not even a question to me - you take him and put him in your bullpen as a LOOGY. Come next season, if he wins a spot in the rotation, it's his. |
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We control one of the best young left handed pitchers in MLB, who has already had the Tommy John surgery through 2017. We will control Martinez and Miller through at least that same time too. You resign Waino and we are going to rock and roll. |
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Most Ray fans like the Rasmus for Shields deal except they also want a high AA prospect or Motte/Lynn as a throw in to sweeten the deal. |
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Our future is really bright. You have to give Ludlow credit for going all out to resolve Martinez's visa issues when all of the rest of the MLB clubs gave up. Give Moz some props for ponying up the big bucks above slot for Miller and signing and controlling Garcia through 2017 for only 27.5 million if he flops in a couple of years for whatever reason. thats bargain basement prices in todays market. |
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Garcia's a bargain, but not a screaming one. Remember, 3 of those seasons are arb seasons where he would probably get something like $15 million total. They bought out his first year of FA eligibility for around $13 million. If he progresses, that'll be a bargain, but pitchers are very very risky (as we know all too well). To go much beyond that would've been foolhardy. I haven't seen the details on the option years, those could really turn the deal the Cards way in a hurry. Otherwise, I'd say it's slightly below the market rate for a pitcher of Garcia's service time. And in the same breath, it's important to realize that Mo's mishandling of the 40 man roster 2 seasons ago is what led to Garcia being arb eligible this season; so lets not suck his dick just yet. Our future solid, but I won't go overboard. I still prefer the Reds 40-man over ours as our group of developmental position players is pretty sub-standard. |
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Hellickson doesn't have a legitimate out pitch. His ceiling is somewhere around Matt Garza, IMO. There's just not enough upside to a kid with a nice fastball, mediocre command and a series of shaky secondary offerings. Moe needs to make this deal on the Cardinals' terms. Get your guy, or don't make the deal. Unfortunately, given his track record, he'll be sure to do something to sabotage the boy's trade value before dumping him for 60-80 cents on the dollar. |
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If you time his heat (which is a little too straight for my tastes), you can just get to fouling off pitches until he walks you. Without a plus putaway pitch, he's no more than a good #3 starter. To get a guy with 30 HR power that plays a damn tough position to fill, they should get a better return. |
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Curious Case of Curt Flood is just coming on HBO right now. Anyone seen it yet?
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I'd still take our starting rotation going forward, but with Votto/Bruce/Stubbs/Alonso/Mesoraco and a few others who's names escape me, their everyday 8 shapes up much better than ours. Their stars are coming, ours will be going. Are you confident that a 34 yr old Pujols will be better than a 31 yr old Votto? I'm not. And I know I wouldn't take a 34 yr old Holliday over a 27 yr old Bruce (who I expect will be an MVP candidate as soon as next season). Don't underestimate their bullets on the farm, they have a ton of talent down there. |
I don't know their roster very well, or their farm system for that matter, but I'd have to think that the Rangers would be interested in Rasmus.
What would you want in return? |
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Our potential SP will render a lot of bats impotent. In baseball, over the long haul, great pitching always trumps great hitting. |
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Do they need Beltran and Rasmus? And the question remains, what would you want in return? |
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Their offense is horrible throughout. Wainwright, Garcia, Bumgarner, Miller, Martinez Best starting 5 in baseball, and two of the five can cut the nuts off of the Phillies' LH bats. |
I would not trade Colby Rasmus for anything less than a SP who profiles as a future #2 or higher, or a legit IF bat.
The guy hit 23 HR and put up an 859 OPS in his age 23 season, for Chrissakes. He's still young. He hasn't peaked as a player, even close to it. If he's hitting .280 and giving you 25 HR a year, as he should in a "normal" year for him, IMO, that's a huge asset. He has .280 30+ HR potential in good years. |
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