I agree,

Not dogging him at all, He should get all that he can get.

2500 it is!

The Titans?

Ewwww

LMAO

Have fun with Tannehill, I guess.

And watching Vrabel run Henry 350-400 times as well.

If you just wanted to go to a team that wont make the playoffs then you shoulda just stayed in AZ.

Tannehill is 35, the same age as Sam Bradford.

He was the 26th ranked QB last season.

Malik Willis had more fumbles than touchdowns last season.

Will Levis puts mayonnaise in his coffee.

Oh my goodness that's awful sounding.

The market for him his very soft, he has to take these visits even if he has no interest in going there so he can give himself any sort of leverage at all.

That offense is really going to stall once Henry hits the wall...

He's chasing money. If he wasn't he wouldn't even visit the Titans.

If you combine it with how he eats bananas without peeling them he's basically a war criminal

If you knew there were only 1 or 2 teams you really wanted to play for but 3-4 others were interested, it makes business since to take the visits to try to max your value.

That's where he will need to make a decision on. He's not going to max his value while playing for a current contender.

Even if he's willing to take less having a high offer to pitch may get him a few extra bucks. When I say max your value what I mean is if he can get the Titans to offer him 1 year 12 million he might be able to get the Chiefs to be willing to give an extra year or offer him 9 or 10 instead of 6.

That makes sense and I could see that. Now how does an incentive laden contract affect the cap?

Never hurts to have a free trip to Nashville

Not speculating he would, just saying outside of those teams or the Chiefs, i havent a single **** to give. He will probably be trade bait at the deadline for the Titans.

He’s going to go for money just like OBJ.

Veach not budging on his offer is a good thing

The fact that hes not on a plane today headed there, while its announced when hes going, makes me think its all to pressure who ever has an offer in to up it a little.

He said Tennessee bbq is far superior to KC bbq, and that was a major factor in his decision. F that guy!

It depends if those incentives are likely to be earned. You have to add them in to this year's 2023 cap if they are likely to be earned. Example: 50 catches or 700 yards for $200,000 would fall under the likely to be earned and would have to be accounted for in the cap. If he does not earn them then the money rolls back into next year's 2024 cap. An incentive like 1,500 yards would probably fall into the 2024 cap if it is earned.

First off, I've said consistently and repeatedly that we don't need DHop. But that we do need a true veteran high football IQ WR to leaven all the young/inexperienced WRs we have. Once, after a couple Scotches, I said we need DHop, maybe a month ago. That's it.


In the last half dozen posts I've stayed out of the speculation business. I literally posted facts, statistics, measurable data. I also tried to skew the data in favor of the passing offense, by omitting the first 8-9 games, because we rebuilt the entire WR room, and I didn't think it was fair to include all the early games when the WRs struggled the most. They were still learning everything, so i unilaterally gave them a pass for the first half of the season.


The data pretty strongly suggest that the WRs underperformed significantly last season. That's been my point over the last half-dozen posts, period.


The responses I've read have been mostly speculation/conjecture.

Again, I didn't speculate that the Chiefs would lose a ton of games, or that they wouldn't make the playoffs, etc. In fact, I've said 100% of the time that I think the Chiefs will probably make the playoffs, and the AFCCG.

I simply laid out the data, and poked a couple holes in the idea that the title "best scoring offense/most yards/etc." meant that the offense was rolling along perfectly in 2022.

The data clearly doesn't support that. It shows that the WRs underperformed. That Travis performed at an extremely high level to hide some of the WRs inefficiencies. That McKinnon also overperformed and hid some of that inconsistency by the WR room.

The data even shows that in the latter half of the season, the defense played a bigger part in some of the Chiefs victories in 2022 than the WRs did. But this is a thread mostly about offense, so I left that out as well.

You're a pretty smart football guy. Always read your opinions with interest. Let me ask you objectively: of the three weapons groups, RBs, TEs, and WRs, is it satisfactory for the WRs to produce less than 30% of the total offense? Knowing that for every other playoff team over the last twenty years or so the WRs almost universally account for closer to 40% of the total offense? Is it sustainable if Travis isn't playing up to his OPOY standard?

Actually, forget 'sustainable.' Does it look like 'the plan' to have the WRs account for significantly less production (nearly 400 yds/19 fewer TDs) than the TEs/RBs? Does that even sound like an Andy Reid plan?


Here's where I speculate: it looks like Andy saw that the WRs were unable to consistently produce around Week 9, and put a band-aid on it by getting McKinnon/Pacheco more involved. Idk 100% that this is true, but based on the stats/data it certainly appears that way after Mecole went down around Week 9. JM caught just 19 balls through Week 8, and 37 between Weeks 9-17. Pacheco 3/12.

It seems pretty straight forward to me. If it doesn't to you, I'd love to read your statistically-backed, data-driven (non-speculative) retort.

That'd be nice. He can wallow on a bottom half team and collect his checksm

Yeah f*** this f****** piece of s***!
If he signs with us though, I will delete this post.
It's your choice champ! (if you are reading.)


Ps
If you are not reading I will send this discussion to your Facebook Messenger.

I hope that the Chiefs really like what they are seeing in their current WRs. Saves us money and it means that we are better prepared for the future.

I also hope that if DeAndre Hopkins signs with us, it is a very team friendly contract.

If Hopkins does not sign with us, it is a team that gives him lots of money and the team really isn't very good.

Deandre H is clearly afraid of the competition with Justyn Ross!!!

Per ESPN just now, Hopkins is traveling to TEN later this week for a visit. Would be best if he went there, imo. Far better than having him end up in BUF or JAX.

What would you say the WR yards percentage was under Vermeil? Kennison had 1000 yards like once, I think. Morton never did. Hall took a few years to get fully integrated into the offense the way he was and never had 1000 yards. Are we really that far off from those years? And yeah... Green was a 4000-yard passer, not a 5000 yard passer, and we operated the offense through Priest Holmes/LJ, yadda yadda. I understand the differences.

I don't think it's an issue if the RBs are eating into a chunk of the "acceptable" WR totals. Or the TEs, for that matter. We've got a pretty damn good group of TEs, and even without Kelce, each guy does different things well enough that I wouldn't say any of them make me cringe and go, "Oh God get that guy off the field he's worthless" the way I would many other teams' 3rd and 4th TEs.

In other words, like you said a long time ago, it's fine. I see no reason why we can't be just as successful on offense as we were last year provided we *knock on wood* stay mostly healthy across the board. And if this is the year Kelce starts to wind down a little bit and we don't really see much of a rise in production from the returning/new WRs from last year? You don't trust Andy to figure something out? He's the GOAT of retooling his offenses from year to year and adjusting and exploiting generic weaknesses, and Mahomes is the GOAT of finding extra yards/points where there are none to be had at the hands of mortal QBs.

I don't know if you wanted stats, but it seems like a fairly non-speculative response to me.

League Circles are spinning wildly

I'll wait to see what DJBILL has to say about this.

His mother put vinegar in his bottles when he was a baby instead of formula because they were poor.

Goes to show he either has zero interest from contenders or just wants the $$. Don’t blame him either way but the Titans are just about the worst landing spot for a receiver that wants to win anything.

Hopkins is going to leave the NFL as another great WR that never won anything.

He was at a Turkish bathhouse with his neighbor last night and in between tugs his neighbor let it slip that KC is no longer interested in Dhop. They have seen Justyn Ross in OTAs and believe he is the second coming of Calvin Johnson.

Firstly, thanks for the thoughtful response. It's a nice change of pace from most of the other responders lately.

As for the Vermiel years, neither ESPN/PFD go further back than 2003, so I can't really take a look at those numbers completely. So I hesitate to say anything definitive about those at this point.

Bell/Gray/Fortson accounted for 24.5yds/game, and Fortson didn't really do anything for the season, again.

Bell statistically was more productive in 2022 than in previous seasons, but there's no trend upward for him in the latter half of the season. He was who he was from week 1 through week 17. In short, the TE room is Travis, the rest are placeholders. If something happens to Travis, it's unlikely Bell/Grey/Fortson will be able to take up his slack.

I trusted Andy before he came to KC. His Eagles were pretty much the only other team I watched regularly between 2001-2001. Which is why I was so excited when he came to KC. So yeah, I trust him a lot.


But even Andy needs proper ingredients to make his magic. Last season the WR room didn't hold up their end, and I would rather they not underperform again this season, because I doubt that's going to be successful long-term. that's all I'm saying.

Hope he enjoys run blocking because that's what he'll be doing a lot of in Tennessee.

He’ll be as good for the Titans as Julio Jones and Randy Moss were

He's actually one of the best run-blocking WRs in the NFL. Not sure if this was always the case, but since he came to ARI he has been. Maybe Larry helped him with that.

It's a thing to put a raw egg into coffee grounds. Maybe the mayo is his egg substitute.

Mayo should be his name-o. He has to get a tattoo in the Philippines and **** whores with his father to really earn the nickname Mayo though.

Welp, as long as it isn't the Bills or Ravens I couldn't care less.

He wants to go fade into obscurity for one last paycheck, he can pound sand. We don't need money chasers here anymore, we need ring chasers.

People do realize the Tennessee thing could be a bluff, right? All part of negotiating?

Making it known that they were just waiting for the Chiefs to decide what to do probably wouldn't be a very shrewd negotiating tactic for DHop or his agent.

If that Bigfoot alien was a CP member, we'd have AT LEAST 2500 posts by now.

Interesting looking back at the last few years at Chiefs WR position.

2023 WR Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Skyy Moore, Kadarius Toney, Richie James, Justin Watson, Rashee Rice, Justyn Ross, John Ross, Ty Fryfogle, Cornell Powell, Ihmir Smith-Marsette, and Nikko Remigio.

2022 WR Ju Ju Smith Schuster, Mecole Hardman, Marquez Valdes-Scantling, Skyy Moore, Kadarius Toney (Trade 10/27/22), Justin Watson, Marcus Kemp, Cornell Powell, Ihmir Smith-Marsette, Josh Gordon, and Daurice Fountain

2021 WR Tyreek Hill, Mecole Hardman, Byron Pringle, Demarcus Robinson, Cornell Powell, Antonio Callaway, Chad Williams, Marcus Kemp, Josh Gordon, Gehrig Dieter, Jody Fortson, Maurice Ffrench, Daurice Fountain, Chris Finke, and Dalton Schoen

2020 WR Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, Mecole Hardman, Byron Pringle, Demarcus Robinson, Gehrig Dieter, Jody Fortson, Maurice Ffrench, Felton Davis, Aleva Hifo, Kalija Lipscomb, Justin Shelton-Mosley, Cody White, and Andre Baccellia

2019 WR Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, Mecole Hardman, Byron Pringle, Demarcus Robinson, Marcus Kemp, Gehrig Dieter, Josh Crockett, Sammie Coates, Cody Thompson, Jamal Custis, Rashard Davis, Felton Davis, and Davon Grayson

I like our depth better than the past few years.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...nt-to-be-here/

Two comments about this -

1. Does not seem to be any big hurry for this visit.

2. No mention in this story about how much DeAndre Hopkins wants to be paid to make him "want to be there".

I'd say go ahead and send it to messenger just to be safe!!

So does Pat. He's explicitly stated as much.

Titans love them some brokedick name receivers.

It’s like MegaMoron is their owner.

You think so??

From a pod in Cleveland sounds like he's expecting too much. Sucks for him that Arizona kind of ****ed him over releasing him as late as he did, but his expectations don't seem to be realistic right now.

Most predict anal rape to a salary capf

An Officer and a Gentleman reference. Respect.

Hey guys. Hope everyone is well.

I’m good! Pretty good, I guess. Wouldn’t say great, but really just pretty solid!

How about yourself?

I’m good. I had a boner earlier. Thanks for asking!

I’m good, just got home from the gym. Feeling fantastic.

Good 2 here

Thanks, it’s tough going going but rewarding when ya leave.

Stayed blessed my dude

I don't know guys, I'm starting to think that D-Hop isn't signing here despite all of our posting prowess.

Doing amazing! Great day to be alive.

Crystal!

Had?

Then he left the Patrick Mahomes thread….

Don't lose faith, he will channel his inner Bashaud Breeland and do the right thing! I know it!

My favorite NFL team, The Kansas City Chiefs, are going to win back-to-back Super Bowl Championships!

That is my favorite Professional Football Team as well!

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I know this may be hard to believe, but I too am fond of the Kansas City Chiefs

I'm a Chicago Bears fan myself. You guys are so lucky to be Chiefs fans and to have found this board, where you can discuss the Chiefs and their various transactions and game results!

WTF. Gif

I think it's really brave and inspiring of you to come out as homosexual like this.

fyp

I got another one! This is epic!

Has this douche signed while he's in a spaceship yet?

Chicken fried and ready to roll in that Great Smokey Mountain gravy

What data did you lay out? Nothing that you spouted off shows that the offense wasn't good. You've just become full of shit. You're using data and everyone else is just speculating. You're a pretentious douche.

Lol, you’re hilariously simple minded. Look up the word ‘nuance’ someday.

Your problem, apparently, is that when you don’t like an argument, or statistical data, you let that trigger you emotionally, blinding you from reason/rational thought.


You should work on that.

Or put me on ignore if you’re going to constantly be triggered by my posts. I give you permission, if that’s what you need.

What data? Still waiting. I'm being extremely rational and it's pretty funny you're the one telling me I need to be rational. You think everyone in here is wrong besides you.

Shit sign of anywhere yet this piece?