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WhawhaWhat 05-15-2013 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 9684023)
Drafted only Crow (9th overall no less)

He was 12th overall by the Royals in 2009. The Nats drafted him 9th the year before. He is a solid contributor but still a bad pick.

As I'm looking through the rest of the 1st round that year, Shelby Miller and Mike Trout are the only players worth a pick and it's still early for Miller. DM is paid to get it right, but that was a turd of a first round.

duncan_idaho 05-15-2013 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9684110)
He was 12th overall by the Royals in 2009. The Nats drafted him 9th the year before. He is a solid contributor but still a bad pick.

Crow is not bad for that draft slot, in that draft, especially when compared to the other guys drafted around him.

Grant Green, Alex White, Matt Purke, Bobby Berchering, AJ Pollack and Chad James were the next six guys off the board.

You have to get to No. 19, and Shelby Miller, before you go "that should have been the pick."

And it probably should have, if Dayton Moore sticks to his traditional draft strategy (upside HS guys vs. college guys). But there was a reason Miller fell to 19... perceived contract demand and signability (he was committed to aTm) issues.

Crow could have just as easily been the righthanded version of Chris Sale. They had the same strengths (velocity, slider) and weaknesses (violent delivery, changeup that needs development, command) coming out of the draft.

It was a decent pick that didn't work out quite the way we hoped, but it still is the 5th best pick in that draft so far (Stras, Trout, Miller, Mike Minor, Crow).

Prison Bitch 05-15-2013 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9684110)
He was 12th overall by the Royals in 2009. The Nats drafted him 9th the year before. He is a solid contributor but still a bad pick.

You're right, I forgot he was a re-draft.

Quote:

As I'm looking through the rest of the 1st round that year, Shelby Miller and Mike Trout are the only players worth a pick and it's still early for Miller. DM is paid to get it right, but that was a turd of a first round.
YProbably. I'm just pointing out his roster right now barely reflects any scouting decisions he or his scouts made re: amateurs.

WhawhaWhat 05-15-2013 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 9684122)
It was a decent pick that didn't work out quite the way we hoped, but it still is the 5th best pick in that draft so far (Stras, Trout, Miller, Mike Minor, Crow).

I agree with you, but I think if a team should get more of a contributor than a reliever in the top third (roughly) of the draft. Of the top 5 in that draft the Royals could have drafted 3 of them and picked the worst of the 3 and the drop off to Crow is pretty significant IMO.

Not saying the pick was a disaster, not saying it was good. Just average/bad based on what was there and what DM produced.

Prison Bitch 05-15-2013 09:00 AM

For a guy drafting at the top of the draft so often, Dayton hasn't produced jack squat from it. Colon & Bubba were top-5 picks. We don't know the outcome on the latter but jeebus the former is a total waste.

WhawhaWhat 05-15-2013 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 9684139)
For a guy drafting at the top of the draft so often, Dayton hasn't produced jack squat from it. Colon & Bubba were top-5 picks. We don't know the outcome on the latter but jeebus the former is a total waste.

It says a lot about Colon and Giavotella that they can't sniff a call up at 2b for a team with a gaping hole at that position.

Prison Bitch 05-15-2013 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9684142)
It says a lot about Colon and Giavotella that they can't sniff a call up at 2b for a team with a gaping hole at that position.

I know what you're saying. But I never liked these arguments because we have to assume Dayton is 100% right to trust that. Gia might be a bit different, in the sense he can actually play at this level. I see no reason he can't be another Mike Aviles whom Dayton let go for some odd reason. Personally I think Dayton hates offense.



• Royals second baseman Johnny Giavotella posted an 8.0% walk and only 11.3% strikeout rate in 503 plate appearances at Triple-A Omaha last season but saw those rates deteriorate considerably (to 3.2% and 17.1%, respectively) during his almost 200 plate appearances at the major-league level. This year, he improved upon his plate-discipline stats, walking in 11.0% of his 418 Triple-A plate appearances and striking out out in just 9.6% of them. A comparable performance at the major-league level (139 PA, 5.8%, 18.7% K,.237/.281/.298, .288 BABIP, 61 wRC+, -0.3 WAR in 2012 so far) remains absent, but the control of the strike zone is very present.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/daily...rs-of-the-pcl/

Three7s 05-15-2013 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 9684168)
I know what you're saying. But I never liked these arguments because we have to assume Dayton is 100% right to trust that. Gia might be a bit different, in the sense he can actually play at this level. I see no reason he can't be another Mike Aviles whom Dayton let go for some odd reason. Personally I think Dayton hates offense.



• Royals second baseman Johnny Giavotella posted an 8.0% walk and only 11.3% strikeout rate in 503 plate appearances at Triple-A Omaha last season but saw those rates deteriorate considerably (to 3.2% and 17.1%, respectively) during his almost 200 plate appearances at the major-league level. This year, he improved upon his plate-discipline stats, walking in 11.0% of his 418 Triple-A plate appearances and striking out out in just 9.6% of them. A comparable performance at the major-league level (139 PA, 5.8%, 18.7% K,.237/.281/.298, .288 BABIP, 61 wRC+, -0.3 WAR in 2012 so far) remains absent, but the control of the strike zone is very present.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/daily...rs-of-the-pcl/

I thought CP hated Aviles.

KevB 05-15-2013 09:37 AM

I'm not sure how you can complain about the Crow pick given he's currently the 5th best pick and you were sitting at 12. He's been a productive major league player, I'll generally take that with the pick in the teens. If the focus is Crow, the discussion probably needs to be around his development. As Duncan said, he had the stuff to be a #2/3 starter, perhaps even a Chris Sale type. He and the org weren't able to develop a third reliable pitch, and so the Royals pretty quickly moved him to the pen. You could argue they should have stuck with him in the rotation longer on the farm, forcing him to work more on that 3rd pitch.

duncan_idaho 05-15-2013 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9684142)
It says a lot about Colon and Giavotella that they can't sniff a call up at 2b for a team with a gaping hole at that position.

What works against Gio, I think, is that he isn't doing anything different with the bat at Omaha. It's the same stuff he has shown each of the past two seasons there.

He has struggled mightily at the plate when called up in both seasons. And his glovework is still not even "good."

They've never really given him protracted playing time at 2B, but he also hasn't MADE them when given a chance. I love the idea of the guy, but it's possible he's just a AAAA player.

Colon is off to a horrendous start. The way he ended his season last year gave me some hope, but he has dashed all of that.

Colon is the worst pick of Moore's tenure. What makes it worse is that this pick flies in the face of everything Moore has done in the draft in the past/his normal strategy.

duncan_idaho 05-15-2013 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevB (Post 9684174)
I'm not sure how you can complain about the Crow pick given he's currently the 5th best pick and you were sitting at 12. He's been a productive major league player, I'll generally take that with the pick in the teens. If the focus is Crow, the discussion probably needs to be around his development. As Duncan said, he had the stuff to be a #2/3 starter, perhaps even a Chris Sale type. He and the org weren't able to develop a third reliable pitch, and so the Royals pretty quickly moved him to the pen. You could argue they should have stuck with him in the rotation longer on the farm, forcing him to work more on that 3rd pitch.

That inability to develop the changeup has also left him at an extreme disadvantage against lefties, at least as a starter. This showed up big-time in 2011.

His numbers against lefties in 2012 and 2013 have been pretty respectable, actually, and better than his numbers against righties. Weird.

Prison Bitch 05-15-2013 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevB (Post 9684174)
I'm not sure how you can complain about the Crow pick given he's currently the 5th best pick and you were sitting at 12. He's been a productive major league player, I'll generally take that with the pick in the teens. If the focus is Crow, the discussion probably needs to be around his development. As Duncan said, he had the stuff to be a #2/3 starter, perhaps even a Chris Sale type. He and the org weren't able to develop a third reliable pitch, and so the Royals pretty quickly moved him to the pen. You could argue they should have stuck with him in the rotation longer on the farm, forcing him to work more on that 3rd pitch.

He's ok. He's not really providing all that much value to the ballclub. He's in his 3rd year and he's provided a total of only +1.3 WAR. That's pretty mediocre. There's not much doubt to me that Louis Coleman could do that for much less than what we paid Crow. (That said we're not paying all that much for Crow right now anyway)

WhawhaWhat 05-15-2013 02:16 PM

Fred White passed away today from Melanoma.

KCUnited 05-15-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 9684711)
Fred White passed away today from Melanoma.

:(

stonedstooge 05-15-2013 02:21 PM

Fred White saying So Long from Royals Stadium. RIP


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