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mnchiefsguy 07-14-2012 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish (Post 8739759)
Saul's absolutely correct. Yea, the stadium looks great. But there is nothing to do prior to or after. The possibilities of retail $ flowing to business from the current location is virtually nil.

And there is no reason you can't build the exact same stadium downtown, giant scoreboard and all. I love the stadium. It's beautiful. That doesn't mean the renovation wasn't ridiculously short sighted. Clay Chastain was big on the idea of light rail connecting all the area destinations. Would have cost a bundle, but it would be nice to be a forward thinking city and be able to jump on a rail and hit the PL, the aquarium and Crown Center at midtown, or the Plaza. and the HSTSC. Even have it hit the Legends and the racetrack and the casinos.

Could have... would have. In 15 years that stadium will be built and it will be too cost prohibitive to put it in downtown. It'll be out at the racetrack. THAT's going to be the sad part.

Except no one would use it. Look at the Twin Cities. They spent billions on lite rail, and the city and state are taking a bath on it, with the state subsidizing the shortfalls of it. To be cost effective, the rider fee for lite rail up there needs to be around 7-10 bucks a person per ride. Who in KC is going to pay that much when they can get in their car and drive?

WilliamTheIrish 07-14-2012 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8739833)
Saul has been woodshedded on every argument hes come up with. He's wrong.
Posted via Mobile Device
Saul hasn't been woodshedded in the least.

Saul hit on several perfectly reasonable and cogent points:

The City Council and city planners is/are full of idiots.

That R. Crosby Kemper one of the city's most recognizable faces and leaders agreed that moving the stadium downtown was in the best interest of the city.

That after 40 years there is still nothing around the HSTSC.

The possibility for increased attendance and creating a better overall family experience complete with hotels, retail shopping, restraunts and *gasp* bars is greater with a downtown stadium vs what the Royals have now is all completely correct.

It's sad that since KK said it first (and I agreed with him then) that we dismiss the idea again today.

-King- 07-14-2012 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish (Post 8739887)
Saul hasn't been woodshedded in the least.

Saul hit on several perfectly reasonable and cogent points:

The City Council and city planners is/are full of idiots.

That R. Crosby Kemper one of the city's most recognizable faces and leaders agreed that moving the stadium downtown was in the best interest of the city.

That after 40 years there is still nothing around the HSTSC.

The possibility for increased attendance and creating a better overall family experience complete with hotels, retail shopping, restraunts and *gasp* bars is greater with a downtown stadium vs what the Royals have now is all completely correct.

It's sad that since KK said it first (and I agreed with him then) that we dismiss the idea again today.
Read the last page. Where would the stadium be built that would have all these bars nearby? Where are all these people coming from that supposedly walk from work into the game?

Unless you can prove a downtown stadium = significantly higher attendance, this means nothing.

Because right now, this stadium is #1 in attendance and it's a lot like the K

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-ge...diumsNo019.jpg

mr. tegu 07-14-2012 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish (Post 8739887)
The possibility for increased attendance and creating a better overall family experience complete with hotels, retail shopping, restraunts and *gasp* bars is greater with a downtown stadium vs what the Royals have now is all completely correct.
Again with the increased attendance? Will it come from the half a million people that don't work or live downtown? Either way, the vast majority of fans will have to drive to the stadium, regardless of where it is at. Some people keep ignoring this. And nothing says family atmosphere like walking through a crowded downtown at 10 pm with a bunch alcohol fueled people who were at the game or just all the people in the area for drinking and partying at the bars. For all the people you may attract to a downtown stadium you will lose just as many who want nothing to do with the traffic or atmosphere.

I will say what I said earlier, I don't necessarily think the whole idea of a downtown stadium is a bad idea, but let's not pretend everyone that currently goes to games would continue to do so resulting in some dramatic attendance increase. Winning will do more for attendance than anything.

O.city 07-14-2012 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 8739973)
Again with the increased attendance? Will it come from the half a million people that don't work or live downtown? Either way, the vast majority of fans will have to drive to the stadium, regardless of where it is at. Some people keep ignoring this. And nothing says family atmosphere like walking through a crowded downtown at 10 pm with a bunch alcohol fueled people who were at the game or just all the people in the area for drinking and partying at the bars. For all the people you may attract to a downtown stadium you will lose just as many who want nothing to do with the traffic or atmosphere.

I will say what I said earlier, I don't necessarily think the whole idea of a downtown stadium is a bad idea, but let's not pretend everyone that currently goes to games would continue to do so resulting in some dramatic attendance increase. Winning will do more for attendance than anything.
I realize the situation is a little different, but Busch stadium is downtown STL and while you are always going to have your drunken idiots, I've never noticed it being a problem.


You don't have to have bars all around the stadium, just restaurants and etc within walking distance would make a big deal.

Titty Meat 07-14-2012 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish (Post 8739759)
Saul's absolutely correct. Yea, the stadium looks great. But there is nothing to do prior to or after. The possibilities of retail $ flowing to business from the current location is virtually nil.

And there is no reason you can't build the exact same stadium downtown, giant scoreboard and all. I love the stadium. It's beautiful. That doesn't mean the renovation wasn't ridiculously short sighted. Clay Chastain was big on the idea of light rail connecting all the area destinations. Would have cost a bundle, but it would be nice to be a forward thinking city and be able to jump on a rail and hit the PL, the aquarium and Crown Center at midtown, or the Plaza. and the HSTSC. Even have it hit the Legends and the racetrack and the casinos.

Could have... would have. In 15 years that stadium will be built and it will be too cost prohibitive to put it in downtown. It'll be out at the racetrack. THAT's going to be the sad part.
Great post.

I'm wondering if in 15 years the land in east kansas city will be cheap enough. The city has been talking about revitalizing that area for awhile. Build the new stadium by municipal you have the jazz district and are right by downtown it would help combat crime like Jacobs field in Cleveland did.

mr. tegu 07-14-2012 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 8739985)
I realize the situation is a little different, but Busch stadium is downtown STL and while you are always going to have your drunken idiots, I've never noticed it being a problem.


You don't have to have bars all around the stadium, just restaurants and etc within walking distance would make a big deal.
Those attractions would definitely lure people in. My point is that many people that go to games now will be turned off from it or will go less often. So if the plan is to increase attendance in this city winning will do it far beyond what anything else would. Some cities NEED their stadiums in a prime downtown location to draw attention and crowds, but the Royals don't, we just need a competitive team. Not even perennial playoff team either, just a competitive team that is playing for something (besides next season) after May.

Raiderhater 07-14-2012 04:42 PM
So we do not want to help out the Glass ownership any more by spending more money to develop the area around HTSC but, people have no problem taking that same money and building him a new fucking stadium?

I swear, some of you make no sense.

WilliamTheIrish 07-14-2012 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiderhader (Post 8740239)
So we do not want to help out the Glass ownership any more by spending more money to develop the area around HTSC but, people have no problem taking that same money and building him a new fucking stadium?

I swear, some of you make no sense.
I have a huge problem spending a dime to see the Royals. I simply dislike the ownership. But whether you realize it or not, that 250mil was renovation. Not rebuild. It's going to need another 250 in 15 years and will those dollars be better served as a renovation or as a new stadium? That's the question that has to be answered.


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