ha ha

you called me a loser.

now that's funny.

OLB first, please...
 

I think Carl has done a fair job with first rounders considering our average draft position. I think he runs into problems in the second round because he tries to get too cute. It seems like he's always trying to find a diamond in the rough. And it always seems to backfire. I think he'd do a lot better if he drafted players with a record of producing on the field. Especially when drafting defense. To me, the best defensive prospects are the ones that have a proven track-record in college.

Instead of taking the Chris Speilmans of the world, we end up taking the Bartees, Battles, and Mitchells of the world. All great atheletes but not proven defenders.

That said, I think anytime you can get a young pro-bowler at a position of dire need for a second round pick you have to do it.

I agree with this line of thought. Surtain has a 6-8 year window left as top CB. That window can be longer as CBs can switch to saftey once they lose a step. That is a great return for a 2nd round pick. I hope KC takes a pass on this trade

I would rather keep that 2nd round pick especially since we don't have a 3rd this year but only IF we sign a FA CB BEFORE the draft. We must have a different veteran at CB to start the 05 season! If we have to trade the 2nd to get one then we will have to do that.

The Rolle deal falling thru F*** this whole thing up :banghead:

He has already played 7 years in the league to expect him to have 6-8 years left as a TOP CB or even safety at 13-15 years in this league :hmmm: Rod Woodson comes to mind but that's the exception rather than the rule don't you think?

Ronnie Lott, Mike Haynes, Albert Lewis, Darrell Green, Adeas Williams, Willie Brown, Lester Hays, Ray Buchannon, off the top of my head all played effective ball well into their mid to late 30s. Surtain is in that class of players IMO.

I have suggested this on other threads.

Trade our 1st pick for Surtain and Dolphin 2nd pick. That means like last year, that our rookies don't get guaranteed contracts but get money only if they make the team. And we still have 2 picks in the first day. The money we would have had to delegate to our 1st round pick would be freed up to pay Surtain and we would make the hard choices of who to cut based upon who is being productive on the field for those 2nd round choices.

If nothing else, if the Dolphins balked it would most likely be because they can't afford to pay two 1st round contracts for rookies who have 50% chance on not playing and meet CAP. What this says is that the CAP will be the reason Surtain is let go in June anyway in order to meet these new rookie contracts.

A couple things...First off the Fins don't have a 2nd round pick because of their brilliant AJ Feeley trade, they also don't have a 3rd round pick because of the Lamar Gordon trade with the Rams.

As for the guaranteed contracts comment I believe you are thinking of the NBA where 1st rounders get a guaranteed 3 year deal and 2nd rounders don't...NFL isn't like that...Only thing guaranteed is the signing bonus that is put in their hand. Granted because the signing bonuses are getting so big that it is becoming more popular for part of the bonus to be deferred but other than the guaranteed bonuses in the contracts virtually nothing else is.
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We need a CBotF...
 

Why give up a pick when there are options that don't involve it? Even if we have to sign one of the 2nd tier FA, we would still be able to afford a top of the line LB. Getting Surtain means we are done in FA. It means that we either have to go with a LB that we already have or draft one in the 3rd. Even after getting Surtain, we would still need to draft another CB in the draft to hold us over until Warfield is able to play.

If Miami is looking to rebuild then they need lots of picks. We have at least two of each pick including and beyond the 5th. Can we bundle 4 of those picks instead of the 2nd or do we need those too? Are they worth it to Miami. Just throwing this idea out.

Here is a bio on your 1st rounder. Sounds a lot like what we already have...

From nflcountdown...

Carlos Rogers

Official Bio College: Auburn Height: 6-03/8
Position: Cornerback Weight: 196
Class: Senior 40-Yard: 4.35
SCOUTING REPORT
Strengths: Excellent size and speed for the position...Tough player who will fight through injuries...Great athleticism...Good ball skills and has become a a playmaker as a senior...Has a lot of experience and made an impact early on as a freshman.
Weaknesses: Doesn't always play up to his physical tools...Isn't a great tackler...Not very stout against the run...Has a lot of work to do in terms of his technique...Needs to master the nuances of the position rather than relying on his physical gifts so much.
Notes: Has just the type of size / speed ratio you are looking for in an NFL corner...A bit of an underachiver throughout his career but came on as a senior...You can bet some team will be more than willing to take a chance on a player with his physical tools and he could go a little higher than his play on the field would suggest.

One man's trash...
 

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2005/...os_rogers.html
Carlos Rogers has always been a solid football player, but he truly emerged his senior season. He took home the Thorpe Award for the nations top defensive back, after totaling 47 tackles, 5 for loss, with 2 interceptions. For his career, he had 181 tackles, 7 interceptions, and 45 pass breakups.
Rogers is a great all around corner prospect. He has good size, speed, and athleticism. What makes him a great player however is his attitude. He’s tough, will get in your face, and never give up. He’s just a great football player. He can turn and run with most receivers, make plays on the ball, but will also make a hit in the running game. He has very good instincts and can play bump, man up, or in zone coverage.

Rogers has a lot of experience, but he still relies on talent too much. He needs to get with a coach to teach him the corner spot, and to help him reach his full potential. He could get stronger too, which will help him keep the jam on receivers at the line and help him finish off more tackles.
Rogers took a big step forward this season, and it has resulted in a first round grade. I expect him to hear his name called in the last half of the first round, but with great workouts, he may go earlier than that. He has big time upside, and should be a very good NFL corner.

Pick your poison.

xoxo~
Gaz
Can find positive and negative reviews of just about every player out there.

Great examples, especially Darrell Green. Will the new rules have an effect on who we now consider great secondary players and for how long?

I agree we MUST upgrade our secondary, just wondering as time passes with these new rules will we see a strong secondary not as necessary as a front 7 that can apply strong QB pressure. I know I'm kinda getting off the original subject here (how much longer Surtain has in his tank) but because of the rule changes maybe a 2nd tier DB will be as good as a top CB and save the premier guys for the line and backers.