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-   -   This not a revamped D, DV has as much to do with it than you care to admit! (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=147999)

hawkchief 09-18-2006 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by htismaqe
Like who?

You'd be hard-pressed to find even ONE person here that likes Carl Peterson.

Some of us are just smart enough to know he's not the root of all evil...
Some of us are smart enought to know that if you are CEO, President and GM of an organization for 17 years that continues to fail, that, by definition, you are the root of the problem and need to be removed.

Lzen 09-18-2006 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical
Hey DV frustrated me with his loyalty to some veterans as much as anyone else. I just thought that statement was not factually correct. I also think with Hicks having an injured shoulder Hali would probably be starting this year, but probably some of the other rookies would not be getting the chance they are getting this year.
Your point about Derrick Johnson is correct. But overall, DV didn't like to let rooks play, even if they were better than the vets.

Example:
Hicks would not be starting this year even if he was 100% healthy right now.

If DV were here and even if they also had drafted Hali, Hicks would be starting right now if he was healthy.

Lzen 09-18-2006 08:37 AM
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefsfan1963
Last time I checked the majority of the players on D were here last year.

Given that DV was not here this past off season, you can't predict which players he would or wouldn't have drafted. Also CP would have had input so Hali probably would have been drafted and potential the other rookies that made the roster as well.

Law would have also been pursued and acquired given our prospects in being a playoff team.

The D was a work in progress and DV was big part of it.

Now that he and AS are gone all their naysayers are coming out claiming the D is great now they are gone. Not fair.

I'm happy the D is finally turned the corner, but don't give all the credit to Herm. Give his DV some credit for leaving some kind of solid base to work from.

Unfortunately, DV and AS left with our O's keys and we can't get it out of the garage.

If DV/AS were still here we would be 2-0 going into our bye week.

Chiefnj 09-18-2006 08:44 AM
IMO, Gunther needs a defensive minded head coach to help guide him and give him some direction. He wasn't going to get that guidance from DV.

Would the offense have put more points on the board the last two weeks if DV and AS were around, probably. Would the defense has played as well the last two weeks if DV was still around, probably not.

Would the Chiefs be better than 0-2 if DV/AS were still around? I have no idea. Maybe Green stays healthy against Cincy and they win a shutout, but the D would probably come up short in Denver. It doesn't matter, DV and AS are gone. It's all on Herm and Solari now.

Skip Towne 09-18-2006 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj
IMO, Gunther needs a defensive minded head coach to help guide him and give him some direction. He wasn't going to get that guidance from DV.
I think you are onto something there. It would explain Gunthers success under Marty, his failure under DV and his apparent rebirth under Herm.

Brock 09-18-2006 08:50 AM
A Vermeil defense would have given up 250 yard rushing. A 9-6 loss in Denver is a breath of fresh air, after the rotten egg farts the Chiefs have laid there the past few years.

htismaqe 09-18-2006 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkchief
Some of us are smart enought to know that if you are CEO, President and GM of an organization for 17 years that continues to fail, that, by definition, you are the root of the problem and need to be removed.
Does the buck stop with Peterson? Nope. There's an owner above him that seems to care more about money than wins. If you want a scapegoat, you can start with Lamar.

That being said, Peterson is a failure. Nobody will dispute that. However, it grows tiresome when Peterson gets blamed for stupid shit right down to the color of socks the players wore...

keg in kc 09-18-2006 09:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Logical
Keg, I am pretty sure DJ played last year as rookie every game. Not sure I follow this point.
The fact that he bascially played one rookie in five years proves my point pretty well, I'd say. Vermeil goes for vets over rookies. That's a fact, not open for much dispute.

beer bacon 09-19-2006 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiefnj
IMO, Gunther needs a defensive minded head coach to help guide him and give him some direction. He wasn't going to get that guidance from DV.

Would the offense have put more points on the board the last two weeks if DV and AS were around, probably. Would the defense has played as well the last two weeks if DV was still around, probably not.

Would the Chiefs be better than 0-2 if DV/AS were still around? I have no idea. Maybe Green stays healthy against Cincy and they win a shutout, but the D would probably come up short in Denver. It doesn't matter, DV and AS are gone. It's all on Herm and Solari now.
Unless AS has changed a lot this offseason, Green would have got killed against Cinci after 10 consecutive seven step drop passes.

KC Jones 09-19-2006 04:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip Towne
I think you are onto something there. It would explain Gunthers success under Marty, his failure under DV and his apparent rebirth under Herm.
I give Gun more credit than that. I believe he's exceptionally good at game planning. I think he needs good talent evaluators and position coaches around him though. I do believe he was hamstrung by inheriting Grob's coaches and personnel decisions.

Lzen 09-19-2006 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC Jones
I give Gun more credit than that. I believe he's exceptionally good at game planning. I think he needs good talent evaluators and position coaches around him though. I do believe he was hamstrung by inheriting Grob's coaches and personnel decisions.
Yep. Sounds about right to me.

Sure-Oz 09-19-2006 09:21 AM
IF DV were here we'd see Hicks out there all the time, wow he also drafted crappy while he was here, herm is the reason this defense has gotten alot better, he instilled competition and they have improved their game!

Fish 09-19-2006 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkchief
Some of us are smart enought to know that if you are CEO, President and GM of an organization for 17 years that continues to fail, that, by definition, you are the root of the problem and need to be removed.
That depends on your definition of failure. I'm not defending Carl here, but he's filled the seats and made quite a bit of money for the Chiefs.

To most of us fans, the only measure of success for Carl is winning playoff games, and eventually a SB or three. Obviously, the Hunt's definition of success is hovering just above a losing record and teasing fans with enough wins to keep selling tickets for next year.

But we keep filling Arrowhead, and Carl keeps cashing in on our hope of finally getting over the hump...

Who's the real dummy?

Fire Me Boy! 09-19-2006 09:42 AM
I haven't read all the other posts, but if you think coaching has nothing to do with it, your and idiot.

While I'm not all down on DV, the fact is, without Herm, Gun would still be using DV's coaches.

Chiefnj 09-19-2006 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC Jones
I give Gun more credit than that. I believe he's exceptionally good at game planning. I think he needs good talent evaluators and position coaches around him though. I do believe he was hamstrung by inheriting Grob's coaches and personnel decisions.
I don't give Gun that much credit. Even back with Marty the defense, although good ,wasn't consistent. Up one year, down the next. From 1 to 11 then 1 to 22 in points against. Then as head coach it was 13th and 19th. I think if was "exceptionally" good at gameplanning there would have been more consistency - especially with the talent he was given.

I agree he was hamstrung by inheriting GRBOS players, but Gun was the guy who said he would change things with his scheme alone. It didn't work. He said he would change things if he had his special players. It didn't work. It wasn't until Herm's arrival and hands on approach that the D has finally shown some real promise.


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