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-   -   Chiefs Pioli offers an excuse (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=225285)

ChiefMojo 03-22-2010 12:12 PM
GoChiefs knows what he is talking about and is smarter than Pioli... he writes for WPI.

Hammock Parties 03-22-2010 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 6624303)
GoChiefs knows what he is talking about and is smarter than Pioli... he writes for WPI.
Well hey, let's take a look at YOUR post history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 5516933)
I'd much rather get Bomar or White over Sanchez. I'm still in the boat of Aaron Curry at #3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 5469999)
For gosh sakes we haven't even got through fu%king FA or the draft yet! This football team is going to be completely different when it comes to quality vets here in a few months. Tony isn't going anywhere!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 5591014)
Umm, we have our QB of the future... his name is Matt Cassel! Stafford is likely gone to Detriot and at this moment Sanchez can't hold Cassel's jock and may never do so (I'm not a big Sanchez fan). There is absolutely no need to draft another QB early!

Aaron Curry is about the surest thing there is in this draft. He is the complete package when it comes to the LB spot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 6033233)
I guess the fair thing to say is... is this defense good yet? Well no, but it is already a heck of a lot better than last season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 6066893)
Looking at the schedule, we can still win 6-8 games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 6091066)
Wade is Cassel's fav target. I think he feels he is the Chiefs Wes Welker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 6187243)
Heck no we aren't the worst. The likes of the Rams, Bucs, and Browns are for sure worse than we are. I would argue we are on the equal footing of Oakland, Detroit, Seattle, Tennessee, and Washington's of the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 6420330)
I think Branden has a long successful future with KC, but I still have a feeling he may end up at either RT or LG in time.
Wow. You are a goddamn genius.

The Franchise 03-22-2010 12:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6624321)
Well hey, let's take a look at YOUR post history.

Wow. You are a goddamn genius.
ROFL

keg in kc 03-22-2010 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6624270)
And have a shitty draft?

And screw around with worthless players in free agency?

And hire coaches who are now gone?

And trade for a shitty quarterback?

Yeah, year one was just a year to assess....they didn't REALLY intend to accomplish anything....

Garbage.
You're not answering any questions, you're just throwing out more hyperbole. Again, I'll ask what I did before: what did you expect to happen in 2009? What were your expectations?
Quote:
And yes, Keg, it WAS a shitty draft. There's something to be said for being patient with players but when all of those players, save the kicker, show absolutely NOTHING and contribute in no meaningful way, there are clear warning signs. So don't sit there and act like we should all be patient and suddenly these guys will turn into All-Pros.
This is the problem when you get tunnel-vision, when you look at 2009 in a bubble. Success or failure, whether you're looking at the team as a whole or at a specific player, is not a matter of one year. Matt Cassel's success or failure is not yet decided, whether you like him or not (and I don't). Neither is Tyson Jackson's, or Alex Magee's, or Colin Brown's, or anybody else's. These guys have years to prove what kind of players they are, for good or ill. And the same's true of Pioli. He's got years to put this thing together; 2009 was just the first step down the path, and some of the moves that look like misses now may or may not turn out to be okay in the long run. There's no way to know.

Don't mistake this as confidence or optimism. It's not. It's just an acknowledgment of my own limits when it comes to reading tea leaves or crystal balls or any other forms of divination. I understand it's easier to just throw your arms up and scream bloody murder, rather than to see how it actually plays out.

Hammock Parties 03-22-2010 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 6624453)
You're not answering any questions, you're just throwing out more hyperbole. Again, I'll ask what I did before: what did you expect to happen in 2009? What were your expectations?
Not to suck ass? Seriously, pretty much everything we saw last year was a carbon copy of crap from the old regime.

You can sit here and preach "patience" as much as you want. But OTHER teams find impact players in the first year of a new regime. OTHER teams find rookies that contribute in some way in their first year.

It's nice to just sit there and say "anything can happen." You know what? That doesn't deal in reality. The reality is Pioli shit the bed last year. Because it doesn't MATTER what Tyson Jackson turns into. He's still going to be a five-tech when it's all said and done.

And that's why we're sitting here day after day this offseason, PRAYING that they take a player who will have a real impact.

FAX 03-22-2010 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 6624124)
What the Chiefs are is a team that's been spiraling downwards for more than a decade - or "swirling 'round the bowl" as I like to put it. This is their 3rd complete rebuild in that time, and each one has involved a completely different approach to building a football team. They've gone from trying to retain the "glory" of the 90s (Gunther '99-'00) built around a defense that was already steadily declining, to trying to recapture the magical season the Rams had in '99 with a system Vermeil built around giving up picks for coaches and veteran players, to again building around defense with Edwards to now building around defense again, but with a drastically different scheme.

This has been one of the worst-managed franchises for years, as far as football goes. They've drafted poorly, they've never built a central core of talent, they've had little to no stability on the coaching staff, . That's where Pioli was starting from. And what he has to do is something their was a pretty lengthy article about during the coaching search last year (or was that even the GM search), when they were talking about how Clark wants to model the franchise around the Steelers. Not in terms of how they play, but how the organization as a whole is structured. They find the systems they want, which was apparently the 3-4 and a more pass-oriented offense, they find the coaches they want to execute that (which I think was Weis and Crennel all along), and then they stick with it...for years.

This has always been something that was going to take a while to turn around. 2009 was always the tear down and roster assessment year, sort of year 1a of the rebuild. 2010 is year 1b. If they're lucky they'll be competitive, although reality is they did win 4 games last year. Although on the other hand, they do play in one of the worst divisions in the game.

Fans are fickle. People are already turning on the 3-4, which is ironic after 10 years of hearing people talk about how they wanted the it. Now that they have it, they want the 4-3 again. I guess that's just how it goes; the grass is always greener. But what the franchise needs to do is stabilize, and that means Haley gets years to put it together. That means the defense doesn't change back to a 4-3 after a single year as a 3-4. Or two years. Or three. That means they stay on the course they're on.
Yep.

FAX

DaWolf 03-22-2010 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6624650)
You can sit here and preach "patience" as much as you want. But OTHER teams find impact players in the first year of a new regime. OTHER teams find rookies that contribute in some way in their first year.
That's a blanket statement that didn't really play out for "regime change" teams in 2009:

2008 Lions: 0-16
2009 Lions: 2-14

2008 Bucs: 9-7
2009 Bucs: 3-13

2008 Seahawks: 4-12
2009 Seahawks: 5-11

2008 Rams: 2-14
2009 Rams: 1-15

2008 Browns: 4-12
2009 Browns: 5-11

2008 Donx: 8-8
2009 Donx: 8-8

2008 Chiefs: 2-14
2009 Chiefs: 4-12

Sometimes teams catch lightning in a bottle and turn around quickly like the Falcons and Dolphins in '08, but it doesn't always happen so quickly, and due to many factors, be it the availability (or lack of) of impact talent in '09, the financial state of the game, personnel miscalculations, whatever it was, bad teams who went out and changed the guys running the team didn't really improve very much. The only two "bad" teams that really turned it around were Cincinnati and Green Bay, and both of those teams maintained stability in leadership...

Hammock Parties 03-22-2010 03:26 PM
I'm not even talking about overall record.

There were a shit ton of teams last year who got more contribution from their rookie class than Ryan Succop the wonder leg.

Sitting here and saying "eh, the rookies didn't do much, but give them time" is being SOFT. We need to hold our front officers to a MUCH higher standard.

Just for comparison's sake, the Oakland Raiders had a shitty year and a fairly shitty draft. They still got decent production (35 catches, 4 TD) out of Louis Murphy and got 4 sacks out of Matt Shaughnessy.

Meanwhile the Chiefs draft guys like Donald Washington and Quinten Lawrence who are lucky to play in a game.

DaneMcCloud 03-22-2010 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6624761)
I'm not even talking about overall record.

There were a shit ton of teams last year who got more contribution from their rookie class than Ryan Succop the wonder leg.

Sitting here and saying "eh, the rookies didn't do much, but give them time" is being SOFT. We need to hold our front officers to a MUCH higher standard.

Just for comparison's sake, the Oakland Raiders had a shitty year and a fairly shitty draft. They still got decent production (35 catches, 4 TD) out of Louis Murphy and got 4 sacks out of Matt Shaughnessy.

Meanwhile the Chiefs draft guys like Donald Washington and Quinten Lawrence who are lucky to play in a game.
I took Murphy last year in the 4th.

Too bad it doesn't count.

DaneMcCloud 03-22-2010 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaWolf (Post 6624732)
Sometimes teams catch lightning in a bottle and turn around quickly like the Falcons and Dolphins in '08
The Dolphins? JFC, WHY would you include them?

It's been discussed to death but the Dolphins were smoke and mirrors. I said in January 2009 that they'd be LUCKY to be 8-8 last year and guess what?

They were 7-9.

ChiefMojo 03-22-2010 03:30 PM
I never stated I was a genius like you do. Your a idiot that thinks you know football because your a hack that gets paid for a crappy website. You think your getting me riled up, but I'm just laughing at you. I'm waiting for your million come backs but in reality you know your hack like everyone else on here knows.

DaneMcCloud 03-22-2010 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keg in kc (Post 6624124)
What the Chiefs are is a team that's been spiraling downwards for more than a decade - or "swirling 'round the bowl" as I like to put it. This is their 3rd complete rebuild in that time, and each one has involved a completely different approach to building a football team. They've gone from trying to retain the "glory" of the 90s (Gunther '99-'00) built around a defense that was already steadily declining, to trying to recapture the magical season the Rams had in '99 with a system Vermeil built around giving up picks for coaches and veteran players, to again building around defense with Edwards to now building around defense again, but with a drastically different scheme.

This has been one of the worst-managed franchises for years, as far as football goes. They've drafted poorly, they've never built a central core of talent, they've had little to no stability on the coaching staff, . That's where Pioli was starting from. And what he has to do is something their was a pretty lengthy article about during the coaching search last year (or was that even the GM search), when they were talking about how Clark wants to model the franchise around the Steelers. Not in terms of how they play, but how the organization as a whole is structured. They find the systems they want, which was apparently the 3-4 and a more pass-oriented offense, they find the coaches they want to execute that (which I think was Weis and Crennel all along), and then they stick with it...for years.

This has always been something that was going to take a while to turn around. 2009 was always the tear down and roster assessment year, sort of year 1a of the rebuild. 2010 is year 1b. If they're lucky they'll be competitive, although reality is they did win 4 games last year. Although on the other hand, they do play in one of the worst divisions in the game.

Fans are fickle. People are already turning on the 3-4, which is ironic after 10 years of hearing people talk about how they wanted the it. Now that they have it, they want the 4-3 again. I guess that's just how it goes; the grass is always greener. But what the franchise needs to do is stabilize, and that means Haley gets years to put it together. That means the defense doesn't change back to a 4-3 after a single year as a 3-4. Or two years. Or three. That means they stay on the course they're on.
That's all well and good but out of seven draft choices and 38 free agent acquisitions, the Chiefs were unable to find something they sorely lacked:

A game-changing, playmaking, difference maker.

Pioli can bring everyone that's even been associated with Parcell, Belichick and himself but until he drafts or signs some playmakers on both sides of the ball, this team will continue to falter.

Hammock Parties 03-22-2010 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 6624769)
I never stated I was a genius like you do. Your a idiot that thinks you know football because your a hack that gets paid for a crappy website. You think your getting me riled up, but I'm just laughing at you. I'm waiting for your million come backs but in reality you know your hack like everyone else on here knows.
Hey dumb****: football is not rocket science. This shit is obvious to anyone with half a brain. If you have less than half a brain, you think Bobby Wade is Wes Welker. You must have thought Lance Long was Steve Largent.

MTG#10 03-22-2010 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefMojo (Post 6624769)
I never stated I was a genius like you do. Your a idiot that thinks you know football because your a hack that gets paid for a crappy website. You think your getting me riled up, but I'm just laughing at you. I'm waiting for your million come backs but in reality you know your hack like everyone else on here knows.
Its you're, as in you are. If you're going to call someone out for being stupid at least learn to spell and use correct punctuation.

DaWolf 03-22-2010 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6624761)
I'm not even talking about overall record.

There were a shit ton of teams last year who got more contribution from their rookie class than Ryan Succop the wonder leg.

Sitting here and saying "eh, the rookies didn't do much, but give them time" is being SOFT. We need to hold our front officers to a MUCH higher standard.

Just for comparison's sake, the Oakland Raiders had a shitty year and a fairly shitty draft. They still got decent production (35 catches, 4 TD) out of Louis Murphy and got 4 sacks out of Matt Shaughnessy.

Meanwhile the Chiefs draft guys like Donald Washington and Quinten Lawrence who are lucky to play in a game.
No one is going to argue that anyone outside of the kicker made much of an impact last year. For impact in 2009, it was a bad draft. Do Jackson and Magee make an impact here in the next couple of years? They better. Linemen take longer to mature and I'm still not sure why the hell Krumrie was coaching these guys last year. That still doesn't mean there won't be production in the future from some of these guys. There better be.

If this becomes a recurring pattern, IE the 2009 draft is a bust and the 2010 draft provides nothing, then absolutely, a pattern will have been seen and there's really no way around it. He's gotta do better on this draft. If I recall, AJ Smith and the Chargers had a pretty bad draft in 2003, but have been pretty good from that point on, and Drew Brees went from being a bad QB to an all pro, sort of like Jamaal Charles went from being a fumbling 3rd down back to a dynamic force. Sometimes it takes a while for the light to come on with these guys.

But it still appears that 2009 was a bad year for whatever reason to have a quick turnaround with any team in the NFL...


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