I'm not a big fan of it because it's an example of the perversion of an ideal body image that exists in this society. We set up avatars of perfection that are not attainable without cosmetic surgery, digital enhancement, and supplementation with products with potentially lethal side effects. Then we wonder why so many people hate the way they look.

It's ****ed up.

Yes. If she is self conscious because she is an A cup and that can be fixed than I would have no problem. Just as if she was self conscious because of acne than I'm buying some Accutane for her.

ITT: A guy talking about how testosterone made him feel like a better husband, father, and person.

The feds don't actively prosecute every crime. It's not feasible. Doesn't make it any more legal. Are you under the impression that all laws are enforced equally?

Would you love her more afterwards?

If not, why do you think your size would affect how much she loves you?

:shake:

There are dress codes that exist at country clubs, restaurants, schools and the workplace. Admittance to those places require that people have proper hygiene, manners and appearance.

Using a napkin is part of living in a civilized society.

It has absolutely nothing to do with vanity.

Who are you referring to?

BigCatDaddy.

:facepalm:

For me, it was about feeling good, enhancing my workouts and leaning out little bit more. I was already working out 3-4x a week, with a trainer, eating right blah blah blah...It didn't bulk me up like a dude, or make me aggressive like testosterone would. And HGH is different than steroids.

I loved it.

So you only address your appearance when you're going somewhere that requires it?

Unlike hamas, you aren't too smart to argue bizarre absolutes. It's right where you're at, unfortunately.

I don't think people often take it to that extreme. Most understand their genetic potential and just want to be the best they can be. If they occasionally want to try some PED's to make it a little more fun to do than I have no problem with that. I don't encourage everyone to do it the "right way" though and be smart about it. I guess I used to do it to impress people when I was in my younger 20's, but now that I'm 34 I do it for me. I enjoy pushing the limits of my body within acceptable risk. These days I'm happiest when I can go in the gym without anybody else in there and I own the damn place.

Nothing a little test prop wont fix!

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d1...sterone-21.jpg

Talk to anyone that has ever had low T and see how they feel.

FWIW, I see no problem with people exercising and eating well. Hell, bodybuild if you want to. What I see as profoundly messed up is the desire to seek out potentially dangerous supplements in order to add even more mass or performance on when it doesn't affect your livelihood and the capability of a fit physique is more or less available to anyone without a hormonal or physical disability.

That's not what I got from his posts, but I see what you're saying.

Playing devil's advocate, is that necessarily a bad thing? If a guy has more energy, sex drive, etc., what's wrong with that?

My size/strength are all about what I like. When I mention being better father/husband/dad it's not more about energy/sense of well being not because someone can point at me and say that jacked dude is my dad.

It's confusing to follow your train of thought because you are advocating two positions simultaneously while often conflating the rationale.

If you have Low T you have a hormonal disorder. That's entirely different than shooting yourself up to impress other people or make yourself look better (far beyond your genetic capability) for your own "self-esteem".

Absolutely.

I wear shorts and flip flops every day of the year. The only time I ever put on jeans these days is to go out to dinner or for drinks.

Right, says the guy that compares piano lessons to HGH.

LMAO

Bottom line, "Saul": You're a dumb**** that likes to argue because you can. And you know absolutely nothing about me, jackass.

Why limit it to just physique goals or performance? As a network engineer I actually enjoy the cognitive-enhancing effects.

It is if it is potentially damaging to his health. Ecstasy does similar things to sex drive and energy, but he obviously shouldn't be rolling 24x7 because it's deleterious.

Then go pop some Adderall, too.

This is a fair assessment, but it doesn't necessarily apply to everyone. People can have valid reasons for wanting to boost their fitness results.

I'll occasionally drink a Red Bull before a run. It's not the healthiest thing in the world, but it's fine in moderation when I'm not feeling it.

I'm looking at the issue with a few givens in mind:

Vanity exists, and we all give into it to varying degrees

Using PEDs for recreational purposes doesn't hurt anyone other than the potential user

I was explaining my use of T. It originally was prescribed as a medical condition, but I'm able to get and use beyond what is considered "normal'. So I use for multiple reasons.

However the risk of Test use is very minimal if done correctly. Like I mentioned before we are talking Meth type side effects.

I think it's pro-wrestling that gives PED's a bad rap because of all the early deaths and obvious use of steroids. People often look at those guys and jump to that conclusion without realing all the pain killers, stimulants, and other rec drugs guys are also putting in bodies that are abused often on a nightly basis as is. Lyle Alzado's bullshit didn't help either.

In the world of BBin'g guys like Arnold, Sly, Lou, and many others live to ripe old ages, but people ignore that.

Are you really this comically lacking in self-awareness? I started a thread and was having a casual conversation. YOU are the one who came in here and started arguing and tossing around insults. It's what you do (when there aren't underaged girls in your immediate vicinity).

I'm pretty certain that you've made your opinion clear (irrespective of the fact that nobody asked for it). If you've got nothing to add to the discussion other than start a fight, feel free to leave.

And, speaking as a woman, we are judged heavily if we aren't perfect. If we are a little overweight, less than perfect tits, fat ass etc...Dont believe me, read half the threads on this forum about women. Hell, "have you ever banged a fat chick" thread is enough to get my point across. So, as much as some want to be like, 'I dont understand why people have body image issues" then you arent paying attention to how society deals with body images.

How often do yous see a commercial with a fat balding dude with a hot tiny little wife pimping Lysol? All the time! Conversly, a hot dude with a fat pumply wife pimping Lysol? NEVER.

So those of you judging what people do in the privacy of their own body to make themselves feel better and look better, get off your high horse.

No need, I can get it all from T.

Yeah, and once you decided you didn't like the responses, you started spewing all kinds of nonsense, relating steroids and HGH use to braces and piano lessons.

Seriously, do you realize how dumb that makes you appear? I know you think you're a "hotshot" because you've called out Phobia about Hootie, but, Child, please.

Braces = Anabolic Steroids? That's your argument?

:doh!:

Last I checked, Hotshot, this a community forum. I can choose to participate or not participate. It's not up to you.

Pointing out your stupidity is not starting a fight. Maybe if you were as smart as you think you are, you'd realize that fact.

I would submit that it's a lot easier for a woman to meet conventional standards of beauty. Basically, be thin.

It's a lot harder for a guy to get a physique like Ryan Reynolds than for a woman to get a body like Natalie Portman.

I'll concede that there is more emphasis on women's looks than on men's.

I'd just like to pop in and say that I have a small penis. I feel it's important for this topic and just wanted to share.

No, I've never done either but God can be cruel.

That might make sense if your first posts in this thread weren't:

On the Planet where all Chiefs cheerleaders are thin and still called dogs you say that is all it takes for women?

You dont need PEDs to get a physique like Ryan Reynolds. Dude is pretty skinny.

Were those directed at you?

Keep trying, Hotshot.

Good point. I guess I'm referring to a persons physique.

A woman really just needs to be thin. Big tits and thick asses help, but they aren't mandatory. Height doesn't really even matter.

It's a lot more work to get washboard abs, and you're pretty much either 6'3 or you aren't.

No. You're pretty much a prick to everyone.

This was a completely civil discussion until you showed up and did your usual.

It's his natural defense mechanism. It was pretty obvious he was out of his element and didn't know what he was talking about early in the thread and that's when you get "Douche McCloud". IRL he was probably taking notes and making a call to the doc to get some blood work done.

What cracks me up is the same guys that condone injecting literally boatloads of steroids over a lifetime in pursuit of a sex change have issues with people cycling a little for there own personal reasons. Friggen preposterous.

Sorry, but its just as difficult (maybe more, I dont know) due to hormonal issues. We gain 5-10 lbs in one week just because of our periods. Plus our body naturally keeps more fat on for baby carrying purposes (whether we are pregnant or not).

Im not saying its easy for guys, but to say its easier for women is just plain wrong.

LMAO at grown men paying ridiculous money for hormones....

Hmmm. Wouldn't a sex change be for someone's personal reasons?

How much are they paying and for what?

I understand what you're saying, but go to any local pool. You'll see a lot more thin women with nice boobs than guys with six packs.

Yeah, no.

My usual? Calling out dumbasses like you, Hotshot? The guy that defended Hootie, of all people, like 500 times?

LMAO

Exactly!

I just eat lots of asparagus and mark my territory frequently.

I'm not a big man so if I can psyche out the large ones with asparagus pee I feel that it might give me some sort of advantage.

Theory never been tested.

Exactly.

Fight me IRL, bro.

Right, I don't know what I'm talking about.

:facepalm:

It's totally cool, healthy and legal to take HGH and steroids.

Hey man, if you want to look like a Jersey Shore reject in St. Joe, be my guest. But don't tell me it's cool, legal or healthy.

Because typically guys carry excess weight in the belly and women carry it in their asses.

It really sucks, because my appetite has gone down so much in the past few years. I guess if I start working out and exercising more, it will go up?

Also, I SWEAR over the past 2 months I've quit eating fast food (maybe two or three times) and have lost so much body fat.

Before or after you start juicing?

That's an interesting perspective.

I just don't get why people give a shit about whether or not people they've never met want to use HGH, Viagra, weed, Red Bull, or whatever else. How is that possibly of concern to anyone?

Steroids and HGH are perfectly legal when provided by a doctor which isn't very difficult. It has minimal risk, but no less healthy than being over weight and sitting on your ass all day and I don't give a shit about "cool". That's for Hollywood types on message boards.

If you're on the 'sparagus, I'm going to need to juice first.

Let me get swole, and then we'll fight IRL.

Fair enough.
You get to choose the venue, however, I feel it must be in a steel cage.

invalid point. Malocclusion can affect the health of the jaw joint, wear on the teeth, and multiple other problems that have nothing to do with vanity.

And HGH can help heal injuries faster, give you more energy, etc.

Both are used primarily for vanity, though.

How many people in this forum are talking about HGH and steroids as being administered by a doctor?

How many guys that are at the gym pumping are under a doctor's supervision?

1. I don't know.

2. In mine? A majority go to doctors that specialized in hormone therapy and are very liberal with what they prescribe. Not just Test or HGH, but Deca, Anavar, etc. If not, the educate user will obtain in another way and has a cool doctor they are open with that will "advise" them against using it, but will still do blood work for them. I can't speak for other places, but I would advise against buying it from some guy on the corner in a trench coat.

What medical condition do you have that necessitates Snoop Brownies?

Well, that may have more to do with heavier women being more self conscience about their body then dudes. Heavier women wont go to the pool, while dudes with beer guts will.

Again, socially we see it being ok for guys being overweight, or at least not having to have 6 packs, and still being able to pull hot women. We see it on TV, movies etc it being ok for the guy to be overweight, but its not ok for wmen. So it is more socially acceptable for a dude to run around the pool with his gut hanging out then it is for a fat chick to be prancing around in a bikini.

if one is so inclined they can be produced at home where one is in control of the exact sterility, ingredients, and dosage (and cost). ;)

Thats the best way to go. Though I've never had a problem with mail order 'underground' labs.. which are pretty much what you just described anyway.

I will agree that HGH and braces are similar if the HGH is being used to correct a metabolic condition resulting in extremely small stature or something. But to give you more energy? Nope. I deal with malocclusions all day long. I NEVER ask a patient if they want braces to improve their smile. I always point out how it is going to improve the wear on their teeth, and improve function.

That part is certainly true.

I'd still go with script of UGL if you had that option.

well I meant in lieu of the crappy mexican vet grade stuff

I remember a few guys making their own Tren from Finaplex. That cattle shit.

I saw those pictures yesterday. That was a huge change.

Not sure what you mean by script of UGL? If I had a script I wouldn't be going UGL in the first place.

Yesterday was at work computer must stay on caps but i get your drift you are smarter and know it all right?

yup

the little 4 inch x 4 inch plastic container with little rows of pellets

one can also make Test Propionate out of Synovex-H if you know how to separate the estrogen

:D

NO NOBODY GETS YOUR DRIFT UNLESS YOU TYPE IN ALL CAPS WITHOUT PUNCTUATION AND BAD SPELLNG OMG WHY WOULD A COMPUTER MAKE YOU USE ALL CAPS THATS JUST RETARTED

Yeah, meant script over UGL. Some guys do both. Cheaper to get a bottle through insurance.

Never done them. Won't do it any time soon.

I don't. My wife does. Most people I know do, whether anxiety, glaucoma, etc. I actually know more people WITH a medical card than without.

yeah, about 2/3 of the people I run around with smoke pot at least occasionally

Come, Carlota. That's because 95% of those "hot" women are willing to be with a heavier/older man because it often comes with perks of not needing to work, or to have a job to support herself, among other things.

That's especially prevelant in places like Vegas, so your perception is probably skewed.

It's seen on TV but very rarely these days. While "King of Queens" was certainly the most obvious offender, for the most part, couples are generally equal in terms of looks and size.

I don't think it's more socially acceptable. I just think that most people don't care. Go to a beach in Florida and tell me you won't see equal overweight men and women. Go to Santa Monica beach and tell me you don't see overweight men and women in bathing suits on the beach.

The issue is that being overweight and obese is more prevalent than lean, fit people, especially among older adults.

Hootie?