I think most teams would fire an OC after a playoff game like that one. The Chiefs will probably give him a raise.

Solari was coaching for San Francisco from 92-96 and for Kansas City from 97 until now. I think that both San Francisco and pre-Vermeil Kansas City ran the West Coast offense.

After a playoff game like that, I think it's possible Carl sticks his nose into the situation. We've seen it before...

That's encouraging. I guess we'll be looking at some sort of hybrid perhaps.

it's possible ... but i have still yet to seen any indication from Herman that the change that's going to be made is let Solari do more of what he wants ... more importantly what he knows.


so next year our offensive coordinator is gonna be basically creating a new offensive system and teaching a new offensive system at the same time.

Herm admitted that Solari was only JUST learning the passing game THIS year.

So tell me how good is the passing part of the offense gonna be?

when Solari is such a n00b about it AND is gonna be learning and teaching a new passing game after only 1 year of passing OC experience.


you don't do this ... you don't take this kind of risk


if you want a new offensive system then you go out and hire an offensive coordinator who is an expert in that offensive system.

We never ran a pure Left Coast offense here. It was always a hybrid based on our consistent strengths being OL, FB, and TE.

Everything I've always heard about Solari (besides the stuff I hear from disgruntled fans) is that he's a pretty sharp guy and the players like him so I'm optimistic that he can be effective.

I'm waiting.

Hot coordinators leave their teams to become head coaches not to be coordinators elsewhere. Obviously, Al Saunders was an exception to this rule of thumb, but after being passed over for head coach here for the second time, it's not really surprising that he left.

Every single one of the hot coordinators in the league was at one time a first year coordinator without any experience in coordination. Hell, Al Saunders wasn't a coordinator before getting the job here was he? I know he was a head coach for a year and he had lots of coaching experience, but was he ever actually calling plays before he came here? Maybe as head coach, but otherwise I don't think he did.

i understand ... a new offensive coordinator has to start somewhere.


but to have solari ... deal with an aging offense, learn a new system , teach that new system and deal with a system that doesn't fit the players is just setting him up to fall flat on his face.

it's too much

solari should of learned the passing game BEFORE becoming OC ... and even then he should run with the same system for awhile before he's ready to build an offense himself.

yawn. He sure didn't seem to mind it during the game. Looked like he threw the game for his buddy. Hopefully that's the case and he's not really incompetent. A guy can only hope...

I personally think the whole "learning the passing game" is overblown. I do think we have to expect some growing pains for a guy calling plays for the first year, but I suspect that learning the passing plays wasn't the problem.

Let's see how things go after he gets a full offseason to learn from this year and have some input into whatever the scheme turns out to be next year.

The problem I have is I believe Solari is Herm's lackey and Herm's know as much about offense as DV does about defense.

Learning the passing game ain't rocket surgery.

There are middle school coaches that could call better game plans than we did against the Mannings.

That offensive display was beyond bad. Well beyond.

FAX

then why was important enough for Herm to bring up?

why do people all throughout the league struggle with it?

why are owners throughout the league paying OC's millions to do what a monkey should be able to do?


we are flirting with disaster to basically give our offensive coordinator "on the job" training .... especially since he's under a offensively challenged Head coach.


i'm just sayin' :shrug:


bad mojo in this move

If that were the case, I'm not sure Carl would have had Gretz take Herm's side and throw the players under the bus. The Gretz article suggests to me that Herm is in complete control, and that there is going to be a purge of anyone supportive of the old guard.

My take, Mr. Laz, is that the "learning the passing game" comment is more Hermjawflappage. He has to say something, you know. I mean, to explain why we sucked so much.

An argument can be made that many coaches and assistants and coordinators are overpaid, but that's not the context, as I see it.

The bottom line is that, your OC had better know how to design game plans that include an effective passing strategy. That's pretty basic stuff. Especially if the enemy is expecting the run. If not, you really shouldn't be paying him a dime.

FAX

I'm not saying that learning the passing game is easy enough for an internet QB like you or me to figure out, I'm saying that Mike Solari has been an offensive coach in this league for well over a decade and I don't think it's a stretch for him to figure it out. As a line coach, he's had to coach the line on passing plays as well as running plays. It's not like he was only aware of running plays. How could a WR coach like Al Saunders ever grasp the running game in his first year as a coordinator?

Stop it! You're scaring the children!!!!!

:mad:

Simple fix...Bring in more WRs..Keep Gonzo..Keep Wilson..Throw more to LJ, if that means early to camp for him..OTs a must..Look for some young speed with good hands to back-up LJ..QBs we need another quality back-up..If Huard stays which I doubt he'll work fine..The ability to change plays has to happen also..DTs need upgraded some..And last GAME-DAY coaching has to change..You have to take what the D.. gives you, till you make them change.. BOOG OUTT ...

[QUOTE=Halfcan]Cut down on the number of plays???

Instead of Run right, left, then middle-we go to run it up the middle every time.
QUOTE]

Yeah no shit! ROFL

let's hope you are correct, Mr. Fax.


... scratch that


let's hope and pray that you are correct, Mr. Fax

i understand, but Al saunders has been in this offensive system for years ... clear back to Dan Fouts. He's been wide receivers coach,assistant head coach,head coach ... all with basically the same offensive system.




~Al Saunders (partial bio)

Al Saunders played Defensive Back at San Jose State University (SJSU) from 1966-1968 where he was a three-year starter, team captain and Academic All-American. Saunders also played Wide Receiver for the San Jose State Spartans.

In the 1970's, Al Saunders joined the coaching staff at San Diego State University (SDSU), whose SDSU Aztecs were then under the control of Head Coach Don Coryell. Saunders would go with Coryell to NFL when Coryell became the Head Coach of the San Diego Chargers.

From 1983-1986, Saunders was the wide receivers coach for the Chargers.

He was tapped as the Charger's Interim Head Coach when Coryell resigned during the middle of the 1986 season.

Saunders would eventually replace Coryell as the Head Coach from 1986-1988.

From 1989-1998, Saunders was with the Kansas City Chiefs, where he served as the Assistant Head Coach and Wide Receivers Coach under Marty Schottenheimer.

Saunders would then join the St. Louis Rams coaching staff. From 1999-2000 he served as the Wide Receivers Coach under Dick Vermeil and later as Assistant Head Coach under Mike Martz. During this period, the Rams won Super Bowl XXXIV in 2000.

Saunders would rejoin the Kansas City Chiefs in 2001 as the Offensive Coordinator when Vermeil came out of retirement. In his second stint with the Chiefs, Saunders built the NFL's top offense, which was ranked #1 in the NFL from 2002-2005.

On January 19, 2006, he joined the coaching staff of the Washington Redskins as the Associate Head Coach - Offense, reuniting him with fellow "Air Coryell" alumn~

Jaws just nailed it on ESPN "no motion, no creativity of formation, no trickery" as plain as vanilla pudding.

How about the patriots offensive scheme? There backup receivers look like stars during the jets game. Seems like it takes like two years for our receivers to even get a grasp on our current system.

No trickery? You mean just lining up in the I-Formation and handing it to Larry wasn't clever? I was stunned at how few PA passes were attempted. At least fake the fake, y'know?

So does this mean our young guys are all stupid? Please don't tell me the reason that Jeff Webb can't get on the field is he's too dumb to figure out the offense. WTF difference does it make? The guys that know it can't catch anyway. HERM!! STFU I'll just stop now.

\

I'm in full agreeance KCJ, thats why i REFUSE to be shouted down around here by some who think the players should be able to make ANY turdburger the coaches throw out work to perfection.

*in the voice of the goombah who wacked Pesci in Goodfellas*

And THATS THAT...

From the sounds of this article, next season we will be even more "vanilla" [cough]predictable[/cough] than this season. If so, next season is already a loss.




I'm thinking that we need to get 15 OL, all over 300# that can run 4.7 or faster, 3 more RB's and a couple of fast QBs - they don't need an arm or accurate pass 'cause they won't be throwing.

Here's the plan...

We line up a QB (Only needed for option play or choosing which RB gets the ball), 2 RB, and 8 OL. That way, we can force our will to run on any opponent.

We could put in turf for better footing and call our new O "3 yards and a cloud of lint".

Damn I didn't even recognize that.

Saunders always used shifting and motion and try to trick the D.

Alright Herm and Solari need to be....well I can't really say it in public.

Improved, but far from the best in the league. It's Detroit... how hard can it possibly be to improve that offense?

Fine, call it mobility.

You're a Long Tabber or a Ranger, right? I'm 82nd. There are people on here with 50,000 posts who are basically PC nerds that guard this place like it was mama's purse. I come here to talk football a few times a year. I appreciate what you and all others who want to talk football have to say.
:toast:

A Soldier knows that a turd of an operation plan is rarely rescued by heroic fighting alone.

Crank up the oven, Ma.
Monday night is PIE NIGHT!!!

PC Nerd.

I was Air-Assault for 1 year at Ft.Campbell HOOOAAAHHH!!!

The other 3 years i was at Ft.Wainwright as a Combat Eng. operating a SEE-Tractor. Hella cold, atleast in winter, summers were fantastic.

No Ranger, no Airborne.

But in line with your thinking, i have certainly witnessed turd plans attempt to be carried out by highly capable soldiers that just didnt work because the "plan" SUCKED to begin with.

That was my point. Thanks!
Air Assault!
(3rd BCT Rakkasans 1997-1999)

Johnny, you should rise above the "pie" taunts & tell me just what in the world it all means. I'm here all night.

Yet i have just gotten a subtle clue that my request was bad, so proceed cautiously...

I had some straight up bro's in the Rakkasans, still in touch with 1, names Bill Coughlin, he got messed up pretty bad when he stood underneath a tank turret on a winch as repairs were made, winch failed & he took the brunt on a K-potted head, it saved his ability to walk.

But he lost a FULL 4 inches of height over it.

Exactly what I'm trying to explain. The system is not to complicated... everyone in the starting lineup knows the system.

Norv Turner turned around the 49ers using the same freaking system. If it's not to complicated for them, why would is it our team? Is our team stupid? It's an excuse.

Scapegoating at it's finest. Hello HERM!! I KNOW the system works... there is about 4 years of evidence. Losing Will Roaf is NOT an excuse... we didn't get beat by Dwight Freeney... we just sucked.

And this team isn't built for the style of offense that HERM wants to run. This team is built for quick passes/screens/etc.

Here's a question for anybody. If we are going to change schemes, why would we not change offensive coordinators? The only reason Solari was promoted in the first place was because he knew the old system. Now, if we change schemes, which would be Herm's new scheme, none of the coaches on the staff will be familiar with it - and Solari will be a "rookie" with it all over again.

S**t, if you want to change up the offense do it the right way.

Ouch. Poor trooper. I've been ABN/AASLT most of my career. I don't like tanks. They're dangerous!

This should not be confused with me taking Herm's side, but:

If they love Dick Vermeil so much that they'll mail it in the playoffs like they obviously did on Saturday, they DESERVE to be purged.

I heard Lenny Dawson say on 810 this mornign that all that motion and shifting was wasted energy...

Yea it sisn't work for us at all the last few years.

Er...that's a little weird.

Interesting.

Was he talking about against zone defenses? My understanding (albeit limited and this may be well known) is that much of the motion and shifting is used to reveal the man-to-man coverage and expose good matchups for the QB prior to the snap. Against a team like Indy, who stay in zone and never play man, it's useless and a waste. Not sure I'd say it's a waste against other teams.

Who mailed it in? Gretz CLAIMED they did, but Gretz's claims and the reality of a situation rarely overlap.

The information ministry has determined it's better to throw the players under the bus than the coaches.

It is if you do all that just to go run, run, pass punt.

Edwards promises offensive changes for Chiefs
 

So much for the " I'm not no dummy, if it's not broke, why fix it " ? Why would I ? They have been doing alot of good things the past severa years here !l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK, Herm changed the way you call your playbook to fit the declining talent he had left on offense. He had to after the injury to Trent and the loss of Roaf and other injuries to the OL.

Will he draft back to fix that ? No, he will change the scheme, the style of play and make the players learn something different, something easier to learn for the young kids to pick up.

Don't expect too much in 2007 folks, the offense must learn a new scheme.

IMHO, with Herms and Solari's background, here comes the WC offense back to KC......

I agree. Defenses are much smarter and faster. The shifts do not confuse the players. All it does is waste time so that we do not have time do audible out of a play.

Pre-snap shifting and motion was extremely useful when we were running on the edges and more play action. Created mismatches and unbalanced defenses. But, there's no point in worrying about that now. Just bring back the choir huddle and I'll forget about winning the superbowl.

At least show a little dignity before you run the ball.

FAX

good idea...change the offense. Run LJ more...416 times was apparently not enough.

I wonder if these changes include teaching the players how to block someone.

Honestly, I'm sitting here watching the game again and there was nothing wrong with the first two playcalls. They would have been successful if someone had EXECUTED.

The third down play was also a disaster. Black got bullrushed by Freeney right into Green's lap. Raheem Brock was also in Trent's face and he had to throw the ball sooner than he wanted.

BLOCK SOMEONE.

Run, Run, Pass, Punt, dismantling greatest show on turf, Herm is the chessmaster and this is on his shoulders, reigning in the n00b Solari, the guys know success and Herm ain't it, you gotta get these guys to believe, it's the coach's job to inspire seasoned veterans, blah, blah, blah.

Personally, I like the blocking idea, Mr. GoChiefs.

And, I am extremely impressed that anyone could review that game tape and keep down their breakfast muffin. Extremely impressed.

FAX

everybody knows defense wins championships...

A real fan wouldn't be able to do that ;)

Seriously. I'm 100% convinced if we get some football players in Kansas City that can BLOCK and CATCH...we'll be fine.

My guess is that Jordan Black knows how to block, he's just not very good at it. Execution is a funny thing. What are the inputs into execution? Effort, skill, coaching? Anything else? Ohio State didn't execute very well (to say the least) last night. How come? It seems to me execution is this black box. If a team doesn't execute well, doesn't that mean that effort, skill, or coaching sucked? To just say a team didn't execute is a meaningless statement, almost a tautology. So which input into execution was the cause of our debacle on Saturday?

And kick, Mr. GoChiefs. Once we get some players that can block, catch, and kick, we'll be fine.

FAX

Love, Mr. FringeNC. The missing ethereal ingredient is love.

Love and players that can block, catch, kick and make a decent coconut macaroon.

FAX

Really?

Willie Roaf used to execute just fine against Dwight Freeney.

Yet Jordan Black got abused. And Shields got abused by Booger McFarland all game long.

Pathetic.

The offensive line executed against Jacksonville. Maybe they need someone to knock the shit out of their quarterback every week.

Kicking is a special teams issue, not offense. Of course, so is tackling.

About 3 years ago or so, KC had all the players it needed to catch, run, and block it needed, but not tackle...but I digress.

Me thinks we need someone who can pass it and catch it...... No wait, we have him.......We have Huard.

Do ya think the players bought into the media we were going to run it down there throats ?

Not a chance, we are just old and slow on the OL.

You're right, of course, Mr. KCTitus. Kicking does fall into the category of special teams although the quick kick may, in fact, be an offensive play. I'd have to look that up. Nevertheless, I failed to recognize that we were limiting the subject to offense only. My error.

So, basically, we need players that can catch, run, block, pass, love each other and make a decent coconut macaroon and we'll be fine.

FAX

I was an MP for 5 years and did some reserves after active to finish up my IRR. Just finishing my degree (7years of night school - yuck) and putting together my warrent officer packet - CID not flight.

Did some air assualt training in the army, lots of fun. had more fun rappelling on a SWAT team in the Dallas area, not telling what department. but we did a few drills from the top of a 30 story hotel down to make an entrance from the balcony.

I miss those adrenaline rushes.

KS, huh, like watching people make little rocks out of big ones?

FAX,

Do you now understand the lament and warning of Jet fans? On paper making the playoffs 3 of 5 years looked good. I looked much better than what was going on in KC during that time period. But, as odd as it sounds, a Herm Edwards playoff appearance isn't always what it appears to be.

We're really making some progress here...we should have this nailed down come the end of June just in time for Camp! I think the real issue is how we weight these abilities. Im thinking the macaroon needs to be #2 or #3...of course that's probably a weeks worth of debate.

I honestly didn't pay any attention whatsoever to what the Jetski's were saying on the Planet, Mr. Chiefnj. Generally, I try to make up my own mind about things based on what I see. Unless, of course, Mr. htismaqe or Mr. Baby Lee tell me what to think about stuff.

In the early going, I was supportive of Herm. Very supportive. I no longer believe that he is head coaching material. So far, this team reminds me more of Gunther's effort than Marty's except Gunther was not such a skilled liar. I hope and pray and wish upon a star and call upon the aid of all angels to prove me wrong. But, at this point, he gets credit from me for a pretty good draft and that's about it which makes me concerned for his ability to pull this thing off going forward.

I can tell you this, though. I've never felt this badly about the Chiefs' prospects. Ever. The franchise just looks like a PR machine to me.

FAX

Might Willie's talent had something to do with that, along with Solari being Oline coach instead of OC? Or does Jordan Black suck because he's a lazy no-good, DV-gangbang bum?

As in my original post, I contend execution is a function of talent, effort, and coaching. We in the anti-Herm crowd choose coaching and to a lesser extent, ability or lack thereof, as the cause of Saturday's nightmare. You in the pro-Herm crowd choose either effort and/or ability.

Maybe the middle ground position of it's all ability is right. Maybe it is all just because Jordan Black (and a few others) suck, but I am skeptical.

Hey, it's clear Jordan doesn't have the talent. But there's something fishy going on when Brian Waters and Will Shields go out and knock heads with Marcus Stroud and John Henderson and win one week, then lose the battle the next against Booger McFarland and Raheem friggin' Brock. Was it really that loud?

The Colts defensive line looked twice as motivated as our offensive line. PATHETIC.

Nah, your right, middle ground sucks.

The O-line ate a big sh*t sandwich this year. Willie retires = deflated Morale + age and Injury = less morale and less confidence. some people moved around from the right side to the left, this makes a difference too and put it all together, the O is our weak leak, was once our strongest link and now is our weakest. Weaker than DT, WR, MLB, QB, FB.


In conclusion, be skeptical.

Is there a reason for this newfound snark?

Generalized Malaise?
Restless Leg Syndrome?
Urine soaked toasted corn breakfast cereal products?

I'm unsure. I may well have had a mild stroke during the second quarter, Mr. Baby Lee.

Actually, and as I'm sure you already know, I hold your opinions in the highest possible regard. Especially your views on the use of spectroscopy to determine the chemical composition of star systems which I have found to be both enlightening and inspirational.

FAX

FTR - just so everyone is aware, the use of spectroscopy is just as effective in determining the chemical composition of star systems that Fax expressly doesn't find enlightening and inspirational, or star systems he is outright indifferent towards.

Not to talk political, but brief change of topic, to world news, just long enough to say, Hell yes!

Somali official: U.S. strikes al Qaeda suspects

U.S. helicopter gunships today attacked suspected al Qaeda terrorists hiding in Somalia, a Somali official said. The operation came a day after U.S. Special Operations forces launched at least two air attacks against suspected al Qaeda members

Dangling modifier humor: guaranteed to bring the house down every time.

"At least two" air attacks eh? I think we can pretty much rule out certain coaches as having had input into THAT gameplan then.