Well it'll be fun trying to develop a guy who misses 5-7 games every year.

we get it


please let april get here

Are you drunk? Brohm has a great arm, but Ryan and Woodson also have nice arms.

The only downside to Brohm is his durability. If you feel his injuries were freak incidents, then he's a franchise caliber QB. If you feel his injuries show that he is fragile, then you probably aren't comfortable with taking him to replace our current fragile QB.

No it's not, he's been hurt his entire playing career. He was hurt all the time at Bama and has shown that he can't stay on the field in the NFL.

"He smells sack, he gets sack."
- Chris Spielman

I hadn't watched Ryan in action until tonight. That dude can make some good throws. He impressed me a lot more than I figured he would.

He's not 1st round quality.

Yeah, he might go early 2nd at best. I dunno, I suppose I'd still take him early 2nd. The few times I did watch him, I was far less impressed than I was with Clady. I haven't had a chance to watch Baker in person yet, and Long is pretty dominant.

Oops. 19 yards rushing for the entire game, including 9 yards on an end around by a WR. ROFL

Under 50% completion percentage, a terrible pick, and two fumbles? Color me unimpressed.

Probably should have watched it, instead of just looking at the stats. You have to understand what he plays with and what he was doing...

The ****ing injuries weren't because of the offensive line.

Were his injuries in college flukes too?

I think they are necessary when you are obviously grasping at whatever you could to attempt to prove that Brodie isn't injury prone.

The way some people act you'd think Brodie Croyle was Peyton Manning coming out of college.

I'm just saying I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because the injuries, especially the last one where he hurts his hand going after a defender, were fluke. You're the one trying to prove that he's injury prone.

You don't have to prove he's injury prone, HE IS INJURY PRONE. There is no proving to it.

Look man, I don't think anyone here is totally sold on Brodie. The fact of the matter is this team has a shitload of holes. That's something everyone can agree on. Most of us here are willing to give Brodie an actual season to see if he can develop into something rather than gamble with our first round pick on a position that historically doesn't pan out. Especially with this year's crop of QB's, it just makes sense to fill another hole with that pick. And if it doesn't work out, we get another high pick next year. Funny thing is, this is probably exactly how it will work out.

I've seen enough of him this year to know he's not even worthy of a top-20 pick. But because he's a QB, he'll be the next Joey Harrington/Kyle Boller.

You know what you should do...

You should pull up the list of the QB's that have won or even made the Superbowl and look at how many of them were 1st round picks....

For a position that "historically busts" there's a reason when teams repeatedly draft them high...just go look at those numbers the percentage of QB's that make the bowl being first rounders is staggering.

That's a rather ridiculous statement, I guess no QB is ever worth a high pick unless he's Peyton Manning in your world.

I guess Marc Bulger, Tavaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, Steve McNair, Kyle Boller, Jake Delhomme, Matt Leinart, Donovan McNabb, Jeff Garcia, JP Losman and Matt Schaub are injury prone too.

They've all missed as much time or more than Croyle has this year.

That's a third of the league's QB's, just off the top of my head.

Injury history in college is irrelevant. Football is a physical game. The defense is trying to kill the QB. QB's with bad OL's are going to get hurt. His history doesn't make him more likely to get injured. There are guys that never miss a down in college that suffer serious injuries in the NFL. It happens.

There's a reason that guys like Manning, Favre and Brady don't get injured often, if ever. They get hit half the times a normal QB does. They've all been sacked less than 21 times a game.

I think the Chiefs had given up 21 sacks by Week 5.

Would everyone be whining about Croyle missing 1 game is he didn't have the ACL problems at Bama?

I don't remember Leinart or Bulger having an "injury history" in college, yet they've both missed a lot more time than Croyle has this year.

I guess they're made of glass, too.

**** it.

Every player that ever had in injury in college and has had one in the NFL is made of glass.

Pussies. All of them. Get them out of the league.

McNair is and McNabb has become injury prone...Garcia is too...

A guy like Leinart going back to college has been injured 1 time in 6 years. Campbell has had 1 injury, these guys don't remotely compare to Croyle. Croyle has been injured what 5 or 6 times in 6 years?

You can't rule out college that goes into what makes someone injury prone. If a guy gets hurt once no, or has one injury plagued season, no. If you continually get hurt season in and season out, you are injury prone.

Ryan is definately a 1st round QB in any draft. Had he been drafted out of the 2005 or 2006 class, I truly believe he'd be taken behind Russell, Quinn, Young, Leinart, and Cutler.

Is he the best QB prospect to come out of the last 5 years, or even the last 2 or 3, no.

But he's going to be the best QB to come out of the draft for the next couple of seasons. He's really a solid pro-prospect, and if the Chiefs were so inclined to take a QB high in the draft, this would be the year to do it.

Todd Boeckman looks to be the best pro-prospect going into next season if that tells you anything. Now I'm not knocking Boeckman, he's been a very solid QB for OSU this season, but he's far less talented or polished than Ryan is.

It's nice to wanna believe in Brodie Croyle but to say "oh college doesn't count!" when the college game isn't as fast or as brutal as the NFL game and he couldn't even last there is pretty funny.

I'm truly not a proponent of taking a QB in the first round, but if the organization feels so inclined, then Ryan is the guy to take.

I'd be much happier drafting an OT or DT. I'd take Sedrick Ellis, Dorsey, or Long(pending bowl performace and combine) over Ryan.

That being said, if he ignites some sort of spark under the Chiefs' collective asses, and we take him, I suppose I won't be too upset.

Cherilius and Baker may still be around in the early 2nd, I doubt Baker will, but it's a possibility.

So, using Leinart as an example....

If he were to miss significant time in the next 2-3 seasons, he'd be labeled as injury prone.

College would have had nothing to do with it.

Brett Favre had an injury history in college and had 30 inches of his intestines removed. We all know where the story goes from there.....

Bottom line is, it doesn't matter if they were injured in college or not. Missing time in the NFL is missing time. Period.

Brett Favre has never once missed an NFL start however....Croyle already has...

When you say benefit of the doubt, to me guys like Leinart get it because this is the first time he's ever gotten injured. When Croyle gets hurt you just expect it because he always does.

Every single Brodie Croyle scouting report said he needed to gain weight and show he was durable because at this point his injury history is a major concern. That he'd most likely be a backup if he couldn't fix those things...

So far he is the same size and is showing he isn't durable.

You give the benefit of the doubt to guys who generally don't get injured, not the guys who get hurt all the time.

Here's all the Super Bowl winning QBs:

Bart Starr 17th round
Joe Namath 1st round
Len Dawson 1st round (3rd team)
Unitas/Morrall (Unitas 9th round, 2nd team/Morrall 1st round, 6th team)
Roger Staubach 10th round
Bob Griese 1st round
Terry Bradshaw 1st round
Ken Stabler 2nd round
Jim Plunkett 1st round (3rd team)
Joe Montana 3rd round
Joe Theismann 4th round (sort of 2nd team -- Miami drafted him, he then played in Canada a few years)
Jim Harbaugh 1st round
Doug Williams 1st round (2nd team)
Phil Simms 1st round
Jeff Hostetler 3rd round
Mark Rypien 6th round
Troy Aikman 1st round
Steve Young 1st round (2nd team)
Brett Favre 2nd round (2nd team)
John Elway 1st round
Kurt Warner FA
Trent Dilfer 1st round (2nd team)
Tom Brady 6th round
Brad Johnson 9th round (3rd team)
Ben Roethlisberger 1st round
Peyton Manning 1st round


Looks like 15 of the 27 were 1st round picks.

If you do it for the losing teams, the number gets even more staggering.

What about the losing QB's?

If you have the time and energy, I'm just curious.

Go back to 1990 for Super Bowl winning QB's. Unless they were 1st overall picks, they usually haven't been 1st rounders.

1990 - Hostetler - 3rd round
1991 - Rypien - 6th round
1992, 1993 - Aikman - 1st overall
1994 - Steve Young - 1st pick overall from USFL supp draft
1995 - Aikman - 1st overall
1996 - Favre - 2nd round
1997, 1998 - Elway - 1st overall
1999 - Warner - undrafted
2000 - Dilfer - 1st round
2001 - Brady - 6th round
2002 - Brad Johnson - 9th round
2003, 2004 - Brady - 6th round
2005 - Roethlisberger - 1st round
2006 - Manning - 1st overall

Dilfer was a bust. No way he was worth a 1st rounder. So in the last 17 years, you either draft your Super Bowl QB first overall, or get him later.

Except for Roethlisberger. If you think Matt Ryan is as good as Roethlisberger, take him. But I don't see it.

The Packers in theory used a 1st rounder on Favre because that was what they traded for him which at the time was the same as using one on a QB.

This is a ridiculous statement. 15 first round QB's have won 23 Super Bowls:

Ben Rothlisberger
Bob Greise
Doug Williams
Earl Morrall
Jim McMahon
Jim Plunkett
Joe Namath
John Elway
Lenny Dawson
Peyton Manning
Phil Simms
Steve Young
Terry Bradshaw
Trent Dilfer
Troy Aikman

Two third round QB's have won 5 Super Bowls:

Joe Montana
Jeff Hostetler

Considering the odds, the Chiefs are far more likely to win a Super Bowl with a first round QB than a third round draft choice.

Croyle was a third round draft choice for one reason: Injury prone. He's continuing that trend in the NFL.

Ok, now look at all of the first round QB's in those drafts that were out of the league within five seasons. Without looking, I would guess that less than 50% actually have worked out. Doesn't look like such a ridiculous statement when you look at the whole picture.

My argument wasn't that first round QB's don't ever amount to anything. My argument was that the majority of them don't work out.

Really if you do that for other rounds the numbers increase even more......for the 1 Tom Brady that worked out from the 2nd day there are a 100 guys that didn't.

Then look at the losing QB's since 1990:

1991 - Jim Kelly (1st round - HOF)
1992 - Jim Kelly (1st round - HOF)
1993 - Jim Kelly (1st round - HOF)
1994 - Jim Kelly (1st round - HOF)
1995 - Stan Humphries (6th round - traded to SD)
1996 - Neil O'Donnell (3rd round)
1997 - Drew Bledsoe (1st overall)
1998 - Brett Favre (2nd round - traded for a 1st)
1999 - Chris Chandler (3rd round)
2000 - Steve McNair (1st round)
2001 - Kerry Collings (1st round)
2002 - Kurt Warner (undrafted)
2003 - Rich Gannon (9th round)
2004 - Jake Delhomme (undrafted)
2005 - Donovan McNabb (1st round)
2006 - Matt Hasellbeck (traded for a 1st round)
2007 - Rex Grossman (1st round)

So again, it looks like the best bet is to have a first round QB, just to get to the Super Bowl.

Nice conjecture. I backed my stance with facts, you're speculating.

You numbskulls are all pathetic at draft scouting. The only person in this thread that knows what he is talking about is Mecca and of course me.

You're right. You're an effing genius. Silva is da best ever!!!!

Let's use our first-rounder on a slow, small DB. Score!

It's generally accepted that first round QB's are a crapshoot. I needn't waste my time providing a list of the boom and bust first round QB's. For every Roethlisberger, there are two Tim Couch's. Go look at draft history if you need proof.