no shit huh.

that pos hit me with neg rep like 5 or 6 times today and over the time Ive been here has hit me like 10 times and 9 of them were for absolutly nothing to do with the post he neg repped or anyting to do with my posting, that and Claython carpet bombing me as well for another 6 today and its a miracle Im still hovering in the mid 40,000s.

Oh well, it was fun.

I was on my way up the noob rep ladder and now I got a longer trail to travel is all.

Rep dont pay my bills anyway!

FYI: The more you mention rep, the more neg rep you'll get.

The forum has basically filled up with people who believe things and they don't know why they believe them so their easy resort is to just attack people with different views.

Just wait it'll get better when the draft becomes the major talking point we'll have people that know absolute shit about the players offering their takes then complaining they got called dumb.

ahhhh the 90s cowboys style of defense....

oh I understand.

case closed.:thumb:

I think these battles in the trenches have become such a focus in recent years because the talent level of impact players is dropping like flies.
College has a lot to do with this of course, running their cheap-assed offenses and having the talking heads call it "God", but when you have a Dynasty in New England and the subsequent culture from it predicated on finding a needle in a ****ing haystack, how can the overall game at the professional level not suffer?

That's why when you have a chance to draft a legit prospect you don't pass him on for something you can get every single year.

Some teams still don't understand what a rare prospect is and what can be had in every draft, they get married to systems they have to put in right now or they have to have this guy to make the system work.

go to the coalition around that time, it will make you feel like those guys here are freaking Dimitroff.

Very good point on elite level talent and how it should be almost overdrafted because of the rarity.

I did that last year. Can I just go to Bigguns.com instead? The Coalition is absolutely ****ing painful leading up to the draft.
I am deadly serious when I say that chewing on tinfoil while getting a culture is a more pleasurable experience.

Let me clarify; I went over there for a day or two to preach the Quarterback Gospel to those ****ing heathens, and my head still hurts.

Last year was the worst mainly bc the QB position was the biggest prize on the draft board. Its always going to draw the sides. 08 was pretty calm mainly bc Dorsey fell to us like a gift.

I have a question about last years draft and value (and I realize this is off topic):

if we were so dead set on selecting Tyson Jackson and we couldnt trade out of the spot, why didnt they just choose not to draft at 3 and let the pick defer until five to try to save the $$$? There is no rule against that and we would be paying the 5 slot (or even six or seven really)

heck, there wasnt a 3-4 team picking until 9 with GB, so we may have let the pick defer till 8 and saved a bunch of money.

His agent is Eugene Parker of the Michael Crabtree debacle. He probably would have done something equally stupid had we tried to get cute like that.

not if it was played the right way.

"we were hoping the X player would drop and he didnt so we took the best player we had on our board at the time we had to make a selection."

Oh well, its not like we would have spent the extra money anyway!

For all of Carl and Herm's suckage, it's too bad we didn't try to build on that 08 draft because it WAS a good one.

heres a good and very telling post about his play so far:


Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief View Post
I was a Pollard fan the whole time he was in KC. I have talked to him about a dozen times at camp and wanted to see how he was doing.

As long as you guys dont expect him to be great in coverage, you will be pleased.

He might have a hole or two in his game, but it's so nice to now have a safety who is good at something. Throughout the Texans' history, we've been plagued by some of the sorriest safety play imaginable. Pollard's been no worse in coverage than any of the other safeties we've run out there over the years.

And Pollard's strengths fit exactly what we needed. If you examine the Texans' game by game stats, you can tell the exact moment Pollard stepped onto the field for us: game four.

In games 1-3 (against a pretty feeble set of offenses: Jets, Titans and Jags), the Texans gave up an average of 205 yards/game on the ground. In those first three games, they allowed runs of 38, 39, 57, 91, 61 and 30 yards. Some pundits were asking if they were witnessing the worst defense of all time.

In the four games Pollard has played (Oakland, Arizona, Cincy and SF), the Texans have allowed an average of 48.5 yards. The longest run they've allowed was a 20-yarder to Heyward-Bey on a reverse. The best run by a RB in that span was a 13 yard gain by Justin Fargas.

Obviously, this incredible reversal is due to more than just one player, but Pollard has clearly been a key figure in the turnaround. I would say I'm incredibly pleased with Pollard right now.

Oakland, Arizona and SF have terrible rushing offenses.

We'll see how the Texans do against the run over the last 8 games...a leopard doesn't change it's spots. I have a very, very difficult time believing Pollard became a good tackler overnight.

It's time to start watching Texans games...maybe I'll just have to GIF Pollard up again, for better or for worse.

Cleveland wanted him at 5.

remember when I talked to you a couple weeks ago about thinking objectively about these players? The next week you came in firing bullets at LJ and Cassel, I couldnt believe it. It's time to do the same with Pollard, buddy.

if a team cuts their rushing yardage allowed over a stretch of 4 games by 75% and drops their yard/carry by two whole yards, you have to credit the catalyst. Its not a few posters sating that is the case over there, it is about every one of them singing praises of his play being the reason the changes happened. Going from over 200 yards per game given up to less than fifty is amazing, I dont care who they are playing.

See through the hate and homer-ism you have for certain players and you will become more realistic about them.

Everybody knew he was 100% miscast as a cover two safety and that he would pay better as a box safety, which is what he played at Purdue. Its just that nobody knew he would play this good.

Can you imagine you being wrong, and that those of us that said he was playing out of position and without any effectiveness from his front 7, making him look alot worse than he actually was, being right? He is playing as a box safety with a decent, if not very good, front seven and seems to be excelling and being the catalyst to a turnaround for their defense.

Sorry man, but I think you may have had another swing and miss here.

forgot about them being the ones who traded out...I had the dumb and thought it was tampa that traded out. Dont know why except to say the dumb had overtaken me.

Hey, I have ALWAYS been objective with Bernard Pollard. He was NOT a good player in Kansas City. He had the lowest stop rate against the run of any KC starter last year. He had a SHITTY 08, had a garbage preseason, and cutting him was ABSOLUTELY the right thing to do.

You cannot stick with a guy who has a history of being a lousy tackler and then does nothing to prove otherwise. The cut was justified.

The catalyst may or may not be BP. Looking at stats doesn't even begin to tell the whole story here.

Whatever. The Chiefs didn't have him playing Cover 2 this preseason and he was still missing tackles.

I didn't swing and miss on anything in regards to Pollard while he was a Chief. He DESERVED to get dumped.

Im not just going off the stats. I am going off the opinion of pretty much every fan that posted in the thread I started.

the stats are nice and undeniable by themselves, that he has made a huge difference. The fans comments about the nuances they point out are reason to believe he was a huge reason for the drastic change.

time will tell if he/they keep it up.

A lot of Chiefs fans thought Pollard was a good player, too. Didn't make them right.

example to make a point:

if we were to start Cox at hb with Savage at fullback, would you judge Coxs play by his averages and rushing touchdowns and issue a blanket statement that he sucked, or that he was playing out of position and in a situation where he couldn't succeed?

no that would be dumb as hell right. He had no chance to succeed in that situation. That goes on the coaches, not the player.

Pollard playing cover two safety behind a NFL Historically poor front seven is no different of a comparison.

He is showing the results of what happens when he is used properly by the coaching staff.

Thank GOD the three stooges are gone. (Gunther, CP, Herm)

I think it's a rotten comparison to be frank.

Good defenders make tackles in the open field. Pollard failed at it.

Doesn't matter what his responsibilities were.

I also firmly believe you don't jettison defensive players unless you feel you can be much better without them.

Going against this line of thinking is what got us in this mess int the first place.

Jared
Tank
Pollard
Jimmy W
Fox
Kawika
Fujita
Holliday
Sims
Sapp
McBride

If we still had all these players and had traded LJ for the two firsts GB had on the table and we would be a much better team right now.

Too bad the line of thinking you are using with Pollard is what ran those guys out of town. All of those guys have weaknesses that the teams coached through and made them productive players.

Add that list of players to this defense tomorrow and we would likely end up in the top half of the league in team defense and scoring defense.

I think it's a rotten comparison to be frank.

Good defenders make tackles in the open field. Pollard failed at it.

Doesn't matter what his responsibilities were.

Nobody is saying the guy was Shawn Taylor, I mean Taylor mays! <-----see how I did that?


...or Ed Reed, I mean Eric Berry! <------------yup....AGAIN!!


It was an exaggeration to make a point, not meant to be a dead on comparison.

Pollard is aobviously an asset to the texans ,so why wasn't he one with us. For the same reason Mike Brown = Fail. Pollard had talent that was not utilized correctly here.

It's our coaching that should have been cut, Not Bernard Pollard. As I've said before, cutting BP was stupid.

If they let Derrick Johnson go because of they're "right 53 " bullshit, I think I'll be done as a fan until Haley and his reeruns are gone.

I would really love to see Cowher come in .

And do what? Make funny faces on the sidelines and yell at people? Cowher wont be anything after his stint with Pittsburg, he was a product of the organization...

Cowhard can go to Carolina....

Hell no to Cowher.

This....

Get someone from a Football family tree, not Martys little bush...

Cowher would give us a defense. Who else would you want ? Shanahan, Gruden ?

Jarrad Page isn't any good either, those 2 safeties got so much hype when in reality, neither one is very good.

it takes balance to win in the NFL.....


but then again, Cowher might just piss the whole fanbase off and draft a franchise QB...

That meltdown that would ensure here because he drafted one would be worth it....

I would love to see the suicide rate of planteers if that happened.... It would be EPIC!

If you're given the chance to have a Cowher you should take that, I don't think it's an option for the Chiefs so I doubt it matters.

It did appear that finally in the end of his Steeler run he realized how important a QB is.

I know this won't be a popular opinion but preferably none of those guys. If our ultimate goal is to win the SB, then I would take those guys out of the equation since no coach has won a SB with 2 different teams. List is pretty freaking short for guys taken 2 different teams to the SB. I don't see any of those guys being the first guy to actually win with 2 different teams and maybe only 1 one them getting there.

The success that coaches had that got them the accodlades to begin with usually isn't duplicated elsewhere and their have been some pretty damn good coaches that have tried.

Wrong!


Again.

I want to say up front that I have seen every Texans game this year (yes I know, I am very lucky) and I have my own opinion on how Pollard has looked. But I wanted to see how the stats match up to my opinion.

Here are Pollards official stats from the league:

- 17 tackles, 6 assisted tackles, 23 total tackles.

I wont get into tackles versus assists, because those are subjective anyway. So anything Pollard does will be considered a tackle, even though we are counting some where he was only cleaning up on a play that Ryans or Cushing had already made.

Here is how his run tackle stats break down:

- 9 of his 23 tackles have been made against the run.

- 4 of his 9 tackles against the run were made against the Raiders, when they naturally stacked the box all game and made Russell try to beat them. So in the 3 games not against the Raiders, he has made 5 tackles against the run.

- Of his 9 total tackles against the run, 4 have been actual run-stuffing plays where the RB gained 4 yards or less. On the other 5, the RB gained at least 5 yards before being stopped.

- Of his 4 run-stuffing plays, 2 came against the Raiders.

Here are his pass numbers:

- 14 of his 23 tackles have been against the pass.

- 7 of those 14 tackles have been made between 5-10 yards downfield.

- 5 of those 14 tackles have come more than 10 yards downfield, with 2 coming after 20 or more yards.

- 2 of the 14 tackles have been made for short yardage.

So what can we tell from all this?

First, the idea that Houston is doing something special with him on a consistent basis is pure fiction. If Pollard was strictly being used in the box for run support, he would have more tackles against the run than he does, he wouldnt have as many downfield pass tackles as he does, and he would probably have short yardage tackles against the pass.

When then did use him up in run support, Pollard had a solid game (4 tackles, 2 for short yardage) against Oakland. But he has hardly done anything since then. He has made 1 tackle against the run in each of his last two games, neither of which were run-stuffing plays. He also continues to be a liability in pass coverage.

All of this supports what I thought from watching, which is that Pollard is the exact same player he was when he was here.

The guy Pollard replaced was complete ass, which stands to reason when a teams signs a safety off the street and has him start almost immediately. Their safety play was so bad that Pollard is an upgrade. Of course their fans like him. People here liked Damion McIntosh at LT because he wasnt Jordan Black.

But the improvement in the Texans run D has nothing to do with Bernard Pollard being an improved player, nor does it have anything to do with their coaching staff using him in ways that none of the coaching staffs here could figure out how to do.

Nothing about Pollard has changed. If you liked who he was and didnt think he should have been cut, thats fine. But dont get deluded into thinking that he has suddenly gotten better, because he hasnt.

I would had still kept Pollard over Brown one way or another, becuase of the fact that Pollard plays special teams, while Brown, to my knowledge, doesn't.

Link.

I used to have the story bookmarked on my last computer and now after looking for about an hour, all I can find is a story involving them offering a first and fourth and it is premium required (not wpi)

because I cant prove it, I retract the statement.

Maybe someone has it in their archives.

The Green Bay trade was false, no truth to it at all. The only trade that legit legs was the Giants trading Jacobs and their first for him.

Link on the stats breakdown, please.

we also had the fewest sacks ever in a season last year, so how much of those big plays do you attribute to having the weakest pass rush in NFL history?

Surprisingly, GoChiefs doesn't really know anything about football.

"If not being a "53" is wrong, I don't wanna' be right" says BP.

:D

There is no one link that I know of. I wish there was. I had to go through the minutia of each individual game and keep track of his production. Anyone who has the time to kill can do the same if they are interested.

But I was told he sucks and that he has no role on an NFL football team.

Evidently there is no room for him on this mighty powerhouse of a club. We are far too close to winning to bother trying to develop an athletic safety in his early 20's that enjoys hitting people.

Besides, that guy sounds like a completely uncoachable malcontent.

But, but, Mike Brown gives this team a better chance to win. //Pioli-Haley

ROFL Yeah he doesn't.

Play him off, Chad!

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LOL.... but...but...but.........................

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Piledriver.gif

It's been 7 games who gives a ****.

thats how you acknowledge your FAIL?

Cmon man, if this topic was about Pollard sucking a big dick you would have 30 posts in it already

If it was about Mike Brown making a game changing play you would have no shortage of words.

Everybody is wrong sometimes. Just own it.

That's probably what I'd go with as well.

If I'd spent the entire offseason slobbing as much knob as most of you people have, I'd pretty much have to go with "It's only been X games"...until that X gets up somewhere in the hundreds.

Because right now "Give him more time" is the only defense any of you dickheads have...

Who failed here? Pollard sucked for almost his whole time with the Chiefs. Making a few tackles for his new team doesn't and hasn't changed that fact.

Now to go wash the "defending billay" off, even if he's right.

Dude, point out where I was wrong about Bernard Pollard.

He absolutely HAD to be cut. His performance warranted it.

The fact it woke his ass up and now he's playing better in no way makes me wrong about anything.

...or is it that he is doing better with a good front seven in front of him as a few of us said would be the case here?

I bet he doesnt do as well in two of his next three games though, they play in Indy, then bye week, come back home to play the Titans and Vince then play the Colts again but at home. Ill keep posting on that texans board so that more info comes in after the game.

I have friends coming over or Id keep one tv on the Texans game Sunday.

Personally I don't think that has anything to do with it.

You can either break down and make a tackle in space or you can't. The guys in front of you are only going to make your job more or less important.

correct!

I dont disagree with the fact he needed to break down more often and make the sure tackle by wraping up, but you also have to remember that he was coached by Gunther and had no front seven, making his job increasingly more difficult. He wasnt a 8 year vet in his prime, but he played light years better than Brown has so far and is like seven years younger.

when your top three tacklers are:

1) Pollard
2) DJ
3) Page

your biggest problem isnt your 24 year old SS with two years starting starting experience.

Well that's a pretty enviable position to be in - no matter what happens, you get to claim you were right.

If he sucks -- "Told ya so"
If he leaves and performs -- "Told ya so"

Nothing in his entire career indicated he was uncoachable, he just had a half-wit as a head coach that never attempted to work with him on his tackling technique or modify his scheme to fit Pollard's strengths.

Rather than see if he could be coached, we dumped him. Your position is that this was needed to wake him up, but that only makes a bit of sense if he ever appeared to be resistant to coaching.

That simply wasn't the case. It wasn't that he couldn't be coached, its that we didn't try.

You're as full of shit on this particular front as you are on...well pretty much everything.

You're telling me the new coaching staff didn't teach tackling technique?

Garbage.

When a guy goes out in preseason and lays a stinker like he did, cutting him is completely justified. We'll see how long this new "awesome" Bernard Pollard lasts.

2.7ypc or 97 tackles; we're comparing apples to apples here.

Why do you have to constantly bring up LJ?

It serves no purpose other than to illustrate your own inability to form coherent and strong arguments.

The new coaching staff cut his ass after 1 training camp.

You seem to believe that a couple months is enough to make up for 2 years of poor coaching. Nevermind the fact that the Seattle game was clearly an example of a kid caught in the middle.

He was still working on trying to incorporate his hitter's instinct with the new scheme/technique. You could see how tentative he was in that game - he simply wasn't comfortable.

But hey, why give a 24 year old kid a little time to iron out the kinks when you can just cut him for Mike !@#$ing Brown?

You're absolutely wrong here. You are spinning in circles trying to defend the indefensible. Bernard Pollard has always been coachable, has always been talented and has always had a desire to crack some skulls. In Texas he's been coached better, placed in a better scheme (similar to one he'd see here, BTW) and his coaches have expressed confidence in him.

THAT'S why he's flourishing. There's no reason he couldn't have received the same things here; there's no reason we couldn't be getting above average SS play from a 25 year old. Instead we're getting arguably the worst SS play in the NFL from some dusty, broke-dick croney.

He didn't need to be cut, he needed to be taught.

In that sense, I guess you're right - he wouldn't be better here than he was, but only because Todd Haley can't coach anyone up for shit. Pollard would've progressed under Haley about like Bowe, Johnson, Albert, Cassel, Page, Flowers, Carr, etc... have.

He may not have progressed, but that's an indictment on the overmatched cockholster of a head coach we have, not Bernard Pollard.

All the arguments have been made 100 times over; I see no point in repeating them.

"You've got REP"!

Oh, garbage. Page improved his tackling. Page was just as poor a tackler as Pollard was last year but he didn't shit the bed in preseason.

Pollard improved in every area each year.

Gunther no doubt emphasized turnovers and Pollard always looked for the knockout before the wrapup.

He wasnt a great player, but you dont throw out average players that are young during a rebuild. Especially if that guy is a safety that lead your team in tackles the previous year.

Nothing about Pollard's play screamed "average."

And I wish people would stop bring up tackle stats. :shake:

Pollard had 1 bad game where he kept getting schooled in the open field.

First -- There are all of about 5 SSs in the NFL that will consistently make an openfield tackle.

Second -- THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE A PRE-SEASON!!

Pollard went out there trying to pick up the new scheme and had a bad game because he was struggling to figure out the new system. It's not the first time it's happened to a young kid, it won't be the last.

Instead of recognizing his talent and his work ethic, we cut him based on a lousy pre-season game and the fact that our head coach feels he is above developing the skills of younger players.

You're honestly trying to say that Bernard Pollard didn't care about improving his tackling because he hadn't been cut before? Nevermind the fact that the guy was going to be a free agent soon. Nah, lifetime financial security wouldn't have meant anything for the guy.

Your position here is completely assinine.

No, he had a long history of it.

The fact he went out and repeated that history in the most important preseason game said a lot.

I am always harping on people for using tackle stats, the reason is because they are usually not a good measuring stick to compare players between teams...Im not doing that, Im comparing players from the SAME team and pointing out that two of our top three tacklers were our safeties. It is 100% relevant in this case. If I was comparing his tackles to that of his with the Texans it would be IMO unusable because of the difference in how they are counted on the different teams...fair enough?

And right now, given the massive difference in the play of his defense before and since his insertion into the starting lineup...one would have to say he is above average, or have their head in the sand.

No it didn't.

It said he looked bad in a game that didn't matter, prior to a season that doesn't matter.

It was GD reeruned to cut the guy going into a knowingly lost season. He was easily more talented than 1/2 the chaff we kept on this roster. Now he's shown that, with proper coaching and a team that believes in him, he can be a well above average NFL safety.

Your boy Haley probably wouldn't have gotten that out of him because he's a worthless douchebag, but using that same logic we probably should just cut Bowe, Johnson, Albert...well pretty much the entire damn team, seeing as how every last player on it has taken a step back from last season.

A competent, qualified NFL head coach would've made a solid NFL player out of Bernard Pollard. Unfortunately, we don't have one of those.

I think you are too readily placing blame on Haley.

The fact is, our defensive coaching has sucked ass for years, and blame should be placed on those guys for the failure to use Pollard ina role he could succeed in.

Blame Haley and Pendergast for giving up on him too soon, but let's give Haley some time to develop and also find out if he makes changes to the staff in the next offseason.

MM, the only reason he's gone, is because he was the first in that secondary to stand up and call that little bitch Pender****er a "little bitch".

And I for one have NO ****ing problem with that whatsoever.

Because he absolutely ****ing sucks. He got fired from a Super Bowl team. You know this, I know this; there's no argument for this guy and his bullshit.
He was a late hire who was seen as being easily pliable by the two men who hired him.

Let's not paint the toilet gold and call it Sinbad's ****ing treasure.

Please.

That's exactly what I'm blaming them for. I'm just adding the caveat that, in light of the 'performance' of the rest of the young players on our roster, there's little reason to believe that he'd have actually progressed this far under Haley.

So I'm merely conceding that Pollard probably wouldn't have improved much here in KC, but it's not because he 'needed to wake up', it's because Todd Haley can't coach up young players.

coach Haley = failure
 

why we released him in a 1st place? his replacement is not any better... at one point, he needs to learn how to coach. Cutting and looking for the most 'fit' players wont cut it

I wouldn't go that far. He's coached plenty of young guys as a position coordinator and was instrumental, by Fitzgerald's own admission, into helping him become an elite receiver. I think the thing with coaches is that they look for certain types of players with certain mentalities. And Pollard may not have fit that bill here. Or heck, he may have been a mistake like Donnie Edwards being let go was. It may have been a case of Pendergast thinking that Pollard wasn't going to be useful in his scheme. Whatever the case, Pollard is in a better situation right now. It didn't work here under Gunther, and it didn't work under Pendergast.

The thing I would be looking at is that it seems that Haley and even Pioli are coming from a couple of Super Bowl caliber teams, and they are starting out with the idea of a player that is a Super Bowl caliber player. This may make them think that a young guy who will never be better than OK is expendable. Pollard may be a solid player for the scheme that the Texans are running, but he'll probably never be anything more than OK unless he undergoes an extreme transformation. So Haley is probably thinking to himself that he can go get some other guy who would be more responsive to the coaching here to also come in and play OK, and that'll have to do until they find someone who can play at an elite level there.

Right now I think what we're seeing is a coach/GM who are installing a system that doesn't necessarily fit the players, and they are saying we're going to get this in place, see who can make the transition, and go out and sign/draft players who can fit in and get rid of those who can't.

My guess is that these guys believe in their systems more than anything because that's what they have used to build Super Bowl teams. And so looking at a 2-14 team, they felt that was the best way to get things right long term.

This is really on Clark Hunt. I'm sure Pioli would have made this clear prior to his hire. If he wanted to hire someone who would take the players we had, made a few tweaks, and created a system to fit the style of the players, then he could have gone that route. You could argue that with Herm and Gailey, they did a lot of conforming to the existing players, as you saw with the Pistol offense and the simplified schemes Herm ran to accommodate the young guys.

That difference in philosophy is another reason why Gailey got canned. I am assuming Haley feels the best thing for the long term of this club is to run a type of offense that he wants to employ and have guys conform to that and see who can run it and who can't, making minor adjustments here and there. Gailey probably wanted to stick with the spread type deal, which may have worked better short term, but long term maybe wasn't going to be viable in terms of building a contender.

I don't think either case is necessarily right, you have to take it situation by situation. But it appears this organization has elected to implement the hard change, and it's ugly. The only way it'll work long term of course is if moving forward, they can successfully identify guys who can be winning players on this team, they are able to sign free agents that can successfully contribute, and they can draft guys who are going to be long term cornerstones here.

Time will tell, but right now it's not pretty...