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Titty Meat 12-07-2009 03:55 PM

Yea and Cassel sucked cuz he didn't win 16 games like Brady. Now it looks like Brady won't win the 11 games Cassel won. Keep the contradictions coming boys.

Mecca 12-07-2009 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326477)
I personally haven't seen that Frank.

My argument for Dorsey is that he was mis-used his rookie year, and now moved to a position that he really doesn't fit at, but could make work because of his overall talent level.

I think both Jackson and Dorsey will be serviceable players and have long careers.

I expect more than serviceable out of two Top-5 picks we have over $60M invested in, however.

I think the switching to the 3-4 was an absolute asinine move.

dirk digler 12-07-2009 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6326435)
A "culture of losing" is a myth. When talented players and coaches are acquired, most teams tend to win.

Talking about fighting a "culture" is what losers do when they're not seeing results. It's a prolonged justification, citing something that is not quantifiable.

We haven't had a "losing culture" in KC; we've had a dog shit talent pool, on the 53 man roster and in the front office.

I agree with you about acquiring talented players and coaches but I also think once losing starts to set in it is hard to reverse that and takes awhile to get it turned around.

Some teams acquire alot of talent but still lose so I think there is some mental aspect of this.

OnTheWarpath15 12-07-2009 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6326476)
I could care less about the money, to be honest, because we have the cap space to eat it this year and next.

What troubles me is the commitment that the $$$ signifies.

Yep. Time.

Another wasted 3 years.

Then 2+ years of growing pains with a rookie QB.

Instead, we're getting 3 years of growing pains with a 27 year old.

Mecca 12-07-2009 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326493)
Yea and Cassel sucked cuz he didn't win 16 games like Brady. Now it looks like Brady won't win the 11 games Cassel won. Keep the contradictions coming boys.

After watching Cassel play this year I don't know how anyone can defend him. Yea he sucked throwing the deep ball cause Moss was dogging it right? Yea guess what he still ****ing sucks throwing the deep ball, he's still inaccurate as ****, he still has no pocket awareness at all.

He has more games of under 100 yards passing than over 250, this is suppose to be our franchise guy.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6326470)
He was basically a consultant.

It is well established that Belichick is the guy in complete control there. Hell, when NE replaced Pioli, they brought in a consultant to do so.

Guys like Bill Simmons (who have inside contacts w/ the Patriots organization) have said that Belichick wields all the power.)

Worst spin-off of the decade: Joey Tribbiani getting his own show, Heidi Montag's music career or Scott Pioli getting his own team? (Waiting.) Do you need more time? Fine, you can have more time. Just remember, my peeps back in New England always swore that Belichick made every minor/major decision for the Pats -- literally, every single one -- while Pioli was along for the ride like DJ Jazzy Jeff. Actually, that's an insult to DJ Jazzy Jeff. But you get the idea.

ROFL ok a consultant. wow. and then you quote a guy who says "my peeps say such and such" wow thats awe inspiring. do you actually think that BB could scout players, sign players, come up with playbooks, come up with offensive AND defensive game plans ( that week to week were like night and day) sweep the floors, etc? DO YOU?

Titty Meat 12-07-2009 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6326501)
After watching Cassel play this year I don't know how anyone can defend him. Yea he sucked throwing the deep ball cause Moss was dogging it right? Yea guess what he still ****ing sucks throwing the deep ball, he's still inaccurate as ****, he still has no pocket awareness at all.

He has more games of under 100 yards passing than over 250, this is suppose to be our franchise guy.

None of this was brought up when the team was on a 2 game winning streak.

keg in kc 12-07-2009 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326454)
I don't think it's too early to tell at all.

Honestly tell me who we've acquired since February that you think even has the remote possibility of becoming a core player here.

Here's my list:

Succop
Jackson


And Jackson is a case of "I hope" and not, "I think."

The rest have shown nothing to lead someone to believe that they'll be anything more than role players, rotational guys or special teamers - at best.

It's too early to say because they (I assume) have more than one offseason to acquire those core players.

That's why "are they a success or a failure" is a question to be answered in 2011, if not 2012. Their success or failure will be the product of the combined success (or lack thereof) of a number of moves made over several years.

Which is not a statement that in any way, shape or form should be considered as support for Pioli or anybody else, or as an excuse or absolution for a painful 2009 season, it's just an acknowledgment that I don't have the ability to see the future, and that the events of 2009 may or may not be a sign of things to come.

I don't think it's time to jump of a bridge yet, that's all I'm saying. It's too soon.

That doesn't mean I'm convinced that there won't be a reason to jump off a bridge later on. There's as much opportunity for bad moves going forward as there is for good ones.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6326476)
I could care less about the money, to be honest, because we have the cap space to eat it this year and next.

What troubles me is the commitment that the $$$ signifies.

it doesnt signify shit. it was a good move financially speaking. he sucks we have 28 mil invested no matter what (contract or franchising) if he blew up this year with no contract we would pay more next year to resign him

The Bad Guy 12-07-2009 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6326460)
You do understand there is a difference in taking a 4-3 DT you think can be Warren Sapp that some thought was the drafts best player and taking a guy who is a teens player.

Not to mention lineman in the 4-3 and 3-4 are not the same Dorsey was drafted to be an impact player Jackson will likely never be one.

And I also understand that last year's draft class was shit. I do not think Tyson Jackson is some world beater. But I will give him more than his rookie year to say he's shit.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6326501)
After watching Cassel play this year I don't know how anyone can defend him. Yea he sucked throwing the deep ball cause Moss was dogging it right? Yea guess what he still ****ing sucks throwing the deep ball, he's still inaccurate as ****, he still has no pocket awareness at all.

He has more games of under 100 yards passing than over 250, this is suppose to be our franchise guy.

oh the parrot learned a new phrase today

BigChiefFan 12-07-2009 04:02 PM

Scott Pioli Vice President - Player Personnel




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scott Pioli is in his ninth season with the Patriots and along with Head Coach Bill Belichick has instilled a football philosophy designed to create a consistent championship contender in New England. Their work has produced an NFL-best three Super Bowl championships, four conference titles and six division crowns in the seven seasons since 2001. Pioli and Belichick's nine seasons together makes them the NFL's longest-tenured current personnel director/ head coach tandem.

Pioli's primary personnel objective is to build a team, not to simply collect individual talent. As a result, the Patriots have been able to prosper despite the NFL realities of injuries and the salary cap, which have proven in many cases to be impediments to long-term success in pro football. The depth and versatility of the clubs that Pioli and Belichick have assembled have been integral to the Patriots' success, as players from a wide spectrum of previous experience have played important roles in the team's achievements.

Once Pioli and Belichick arrived in New England in 2000, it took the pair just two seasons to rebuild the foundation of the team. Since orchestrating the franchise's first Super Bowl victory following the 2001 season, Pioli and Belichick have produced consistently solid results, becoming the only personnel director/head coach tandem in NFL history to win three Super Bowls in a four-year span (2001-04). The Patriots are the only NFL team to win at least one playoff game in each of the last five seasons (2003-07) and are the only team in the league to win nine or more games in each of the last seven seasons (2001-07). Additionally, New England's 11 playoff wins over the last five seasons are tied for the highest total by a team over any five-year span in NFL history. The Patriots' 14 playoff wins this decade tie the NFL record for most playoff wins in any decade, equaling the marks of the 1970s Pittsburgh Steelers and the 1970s Dallas Cowboys.

In recognition of his achievements, Pioli was awarded The Sporting News' George Young NFL Executive of the Year award (voted on by NFL executives) following the 2003 and 2004 seasons. He is one of just three NFL executives, along with Bill Polian and Bobby Beathard, to win the award in consecutive years. Pioli is the youngest executive to win the award.

In 2007, the Patriots embarked on a record-setting campaign during which they became the first team in NFL history to complete a 16-0 regular season. Of the 53 players on the Patriots' Super Bowl XLII roster, 50 were acquired since 2000. New England set team records for total points scored (589), largest point differential (+315) and most touchdowns (75), while tying the league mark with 18 overall wins. Additionally, quarterback Tom Brady's 50 touchdown passes set an NFL record and Randy Moss's 23 touchdown receptions also set a league mark.

In each of the last five seasons, the depth and versatility of New England's roster helped overcome key injuries to win five straight AFC East titles. The Patriots have used an average of 40 different starters over the last five seasons, and claimed two NFL records for success in that category. In 2005, the Patriots set a post-merger league record for a division champion by utilizing 45 different starters. In 2003, the Patriots won Super Bowl XXXVIII despite using 42 different starters, the most in league history by a Super Bowl champion. In 2004, the Patriots employed 40 different starters as they won their second consecutive Super Bowl, and in 2006 won their fourth straight AFC East title while using 39 different starters. Last season, the Patriots tied the all-time NFL record with 21 different players scoring touchdowns. Of the 53 players on the Patriots' Super Bowl XLII roster, 43 were acquired after the team's first championship in 2001 and 31 were acquired since the team's third title in 2004.

The Patriots have used an effective combination of free agent signings, trades and draft picks to acquire championship-caliber players. In 2007, six Patriots players drafted by Belichick and Pioli were selected to the Pro Bowl and were named to the Associated Press All-Pro first or second teams. Those elite players came from a wide variety of draft positions - Tom Brady (sixth round), Dan Koppen (fifth round), Matt Light (second round), Logan Mankins (first round), Asante Samuel (fourth round) and Vince Wilfork (first round). Since 2000, Belichick/Pioli draft choices have earned one Associated Press Most Valuable Player Award (Brady), three Super Bowl MVP awards (Brady and Deion Branch) and 15 Pro Bowl berths (Seymour 5, Brady 4, Light 2, Koppen 1, Mankins 1, Samuel 1 and Wilfork 1). Veteran free agents signed by Belichick and Pioli include defensive co-captain Rodney Harrison, outside linebacker Mike Vrabel and three-time Pro Bowl special teams captain Larry Izzo among dozens of other contributors to New England's championship squads. New England's trades have netted improvement in drafting position that led to the ability to exchange draft picks for key veterans such as Randy Moss, who set the NFL record with 23 touchdown receptions in 2007, Wes Welker, who tied for the NFL lead with a team-record 112 receptions in 2007, and Corey Dillon, who set the Patriots' single-season rushing record in 2004.

Pioli was honored with Executive of the Year honors from national media outlets following the 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2007 seasons. Following the Patriots' first Super Bowl victory, the Dallas Morning News picked him as the league's top executive. Two seasons later, following Super Bowl XXXVIII, he earned Executive of the Year honors from Pro Football Weekly (voted on by the media), The Sporting News (voted on by NFL executives) and Sports Illustrated. In 2004, Pioli's accolades included the NFLPA's Award for Executive Achievement and NFL Executive of the Year awards from The Sporting News, USA Today, the San Francisco Chronicle and SI.com. In 2007, Pioli again earned Executive of the Year honors from Pro Football Weekly, the Dallas Morning News and the San Francisco Chronicle.

Pioli began his NFL career when Belichick hired him as a pro personnel assistant for the Cleveland Browns in 1992. In Cleveland, he was responsible for the evaluation of both college prospects and veteran free agents as well as negotiating various player contracts. He also coordinated all player tryouts. He was promoted to director of pro personnel after the Cleveland franchise moved to Baltimore in 1996. He spent one season with the Baltimore Ravens, where he oversaw all aspects of pro personnel and negotiated the contracts of free agents and several draft choices.

In 1997, while serving as head coach of the Jets, Belichick hired Pioli as the director of pro personnel. He was credited with the signing of a number of veteran free agents who played critical roles in the Jets' rebuilding process. In just two seasons, the Jets completed a worst-to-first turnaround, rebounding from 1-15 in 1996 to 12-4 in 1998. The 12 wins were the most in franchise history and gave the Jets their first division title since 1968.

Pioli played defensive tackle at Central Connecticut State (1983-87), where he was a three-time Division II All- New England selection. In 1988, after graduating with a degree in communications, he accepted a two-year graduate assistant position at Syracuse University, where he also earned a master's degree from the S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications.

He accepted a full-time coaching opportunity at Murray State, where he spent one season as the offensive line coach (1990) and one season as the defensive line coach (1991). He left the coaching ranks to join the Browns personnel department in 1992.

Pioli was born on March 31, 1965 in Washingtonville, N.Y. He is an avid baseball fan. He currently serves on the board of directors for various non-profit foundations and serves on the board of directors for the College for Every Student Foundation, a national non-profit organization that partners with public schools in high-need communities to raise student aspirations and performance. He remains actively involved in fund raising for several organizations in his hometown (Washingtonville, N.Y.) and at his alma mater (Central Connecticut State). He established the Rose Pioli Scholarship in the name of his grandmother to benefit children of educators, professional firefighters, police and other emergency medical service providers. He was enshrined in the Central Connecticut State Hall of Fame in 2005. Scott and his wife, Dallas, have a daughter, Mia Costa Pioli.

The Bad Guy 12-07-2009 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326511)
None of this was brought up when the team was on a 2 game winning streak.

You're right. Mecca was in hiding for that.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326500)
Yep. Time.

Another wasted 3 years.

Then 2+ years of growing pains with a rookie QB.

Instead, we're getting 3 years of growing pains with a 27 year old.

why 3 years? we already had this discussion, ask bigrock for the numbers again

philfree 12-07-2009 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326511)
None of this was brought up when the team was on a 2 game winning streak.

Some people were no where to be found when the Chiefs won two in a row but now that they've lost two in a row those people seemed to have returned. Go Figure.


PhilFree:arrow:

DeezNutz 12-07-2009 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326493)
Yea and Cassel sucked cuz he didn't win 16 games like Brady. Now it looks like Brady won't win the 11 games Cassel won. Keep the contradictions coming boys.

This year the Pats are 2nd in the AFC in passing.

Last year they were 6th.

Titty Meat 12-07-2009 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bad Guy (Post 6326527)
You're right. Mecca was in hiding for that.

I guess, I respect Mecca and give him the benefit of the doubt he was busy. Anyway I see a correlation between the O-line play and Cassels performance. Get him some O-line help and we won't be discussing his play.

DeezNutz 12-07-2009 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326523)
it doesnt signify shit. it was a good move financially speaking. he sucks we have 28 mil invested no matter what (contract or franchising) if he blew up this year with no contract we would pay more next year to resign him

If he blew up this year with no contract, why would we re-sign him?

Mecca 12-07-2009 04:04 PM

Hiding, you really think that had anything to do with me not being here?

You know god forbid I had things to do other than post on the ****ing Chiefsplanet forum.

Sweet Daddy Hate 12-07-2009 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326511)
None of this was brought up when the team was on a 2 game winning streak.

"Not For Long"

"What can you do for me today"?

Consistent progress please. Nothing more was asked for. Nothing.

keg in kc 12-07-2009 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6326474)
Well one thing is for sure McDaniels rarely if ever looks as in over his head as Haley does.

I'd imagine that most guys walking out for a shootout at high noon with a rusty butterknife are going to look like they're in over their head.

Coaches look good when they win. And, this is just my opinion, but winning ultimately comes down to talent. Which we don't have.

I think if Haley is ever going to amount to anything as a coach (and I don't know if he will...) it's not going to happen until Pioli gives him a competitive roster.

Hammock Parties 12-07-2009 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326535)
Anyway I see a correlation between the O-line play and Cassels performance.

I don't.

The offensive line has improved, Cassel has gotten worse.

I had my kneepads ready for Cassel when he arrived in Kansas City. Now he's gonna have to take me out to dinner and show me a good time before I even let him get to second base.

Titty Meat 12-07-2009 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6326532)
This year the Pats are 2nd in the AFC in passing.

Last year they were 6th.

Thats not bad. Like I said though the Patriots didn't lose 5 games last year because of Cassel.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6326532)
This year the Pats are 2nd in the AFC in passing.

Last year they were 6th.

but all we heard was that cassel lost 5 games and the year before they went 16-0, all that was on cassel. Why this year is it not on brady? hypocritical IMO

OnTheWarpath15 12-07-2009 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326509)
ROFL ok a consultant. wow. and then you quote a guy who says "my peeps say such and such" wow thats awe inspiring. do you actually think that BB could scout players, sign players, come up with playbooks, come up with offensive AND defensive game plans ( that week to week were like night and day) sweep the floors, etc? DO YOU?

You might want to read Patriot Reign.

It makes it pretty clear - BB surrounds himself with independent thinkers - and basically uses them as consultants.

The final say on everything is his.

Titty Meat 12-07-2009 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6326547)
I don't.

The offensive line has improved, Cassel has gotten worse.

Yea and if the Chiefs win next week you'll write about how good Haley is. Sorry you're kind of irrelevant.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6326536)
If he blew up this year with no contract, why would we re-sign him?

ROFL you misunderstood me, blew up in a good way:D you know played great

Mecca 12-07-2009 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326552)
You might want to read Patriot Reign.

It makes it pretty clear - BB surrounds himself with independent thinkers - and basically uses them as consultants.

The final say on everything is his.

You are going to argue with Jason, I hope you have brought a helmet.

'Hamas' Jenkins 12-07-2009 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326493)
Yea and Cassel sucked cuz he didn't win 16 games like Brady. Now it looks like Brady won't win the 11 games Cassel won. Keep the contradictions coming boys.

Oh, bull****.

Say what you will, but the Pats had a complete overhaul of their defense this offseason, their core got one year older, and they switched schemes...twice.

The D wasn't great last year, but they lost their leader (who were actually very astute players) on each level:

Bruschi
Seymour
Harrison.

I think it's also pretty obvious that 2009 Tom Brady isn't 2007 Tom Brady, either.

They also didn't get to play the NFC and AFC West this year, FWIW.

DeezNutz 12-07-2009 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326551)
but all we heard was that cassel lost 5 games and the year before they went 16-0, all that was on cassel. Why this year is it not on brady? hypocritical IMO

Declining defense.

Cassel was NOT responsible for the Pats missing the playoffs. 11 wins *should* get you in the tournament (high fives Carl).

Titty Meat 12-07-2009 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6326560)
Oh, bull****.

Say what you will, but the Pats had a complete overhaul of their defense this offseason, their core got one year older, and they switched schemes...twice.

The D wasn't great last year, but they lost their leader (who were actually very astute players) on each level:

Bruschi
Seymour
Harrison.

I think it's also pretty obvious that 2009 Tom Brady isn't 2007 Tom Brady, either.

They also didn't get to play the NFC and AFC West this year, FWIW.


I thought leaders were overrated?

DeezNutz 12-07-2009 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326558)
ROFL you misunderstood me, blew up in a good way:D you know played great

LMAO. Sorry.

Shows what I anticipated. Hated the possibility of acquiring him from the start and hoped to be very wrong...

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326552)
You might want to read Patriot Reign.

It makes it pretty clear - BB surrounds himself with independent thinkers - and basically uses them as consultants.

The final say on everything is his.

pioli was around for quite sometime before the pats with BB. i would bet that he was a little more important than that. we'll see. maybe they NEED EACH OTHER. BB isnt looking so hot himself so far on his own. maybe he'll be our next HC.


kidding kidding

Mecca 12-07-2009 04:09 PM

I'd like to know how anyone that has watched Cassel this year can be remotely excited about him. I didn't want the guy and I'm even less thrilled now than I was before the year started.

'Hamas' Jenkins 12-07-2009 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326509)
ROFL ok a consultant. wow. and then you quote a guy who says "my peeps say such and such" wow thats awe inspiring. do you actually think that BB could scout players, sign players, come up with playbooks, come up with offensive AND defensive game plans ( that week to week were like night and day) sweep the floors, etc? DO YOU?

Yes, I'm sorry that I quoted a guy with inside contacts who is a fan who lives and dies with the team that he is talking about and has a direct emotional attachment with their success or failure.

Nor are there any other previously published reports that say the same thing.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6326559)
You are going to argue with Jason, I hope you have brought a helmet.

why dont you take another extended absence. it's comical to think that BB did it all. comical

OnTheWarpath15 12-07-2009 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326530)
why 3 years? we already had this discussion, ask bigrock for the numbers again

Because they won't admit their mistake after 2.

Hell, for sake of conversation, let's say they do.

So we're at 2 years of growing pains with a 27 year old, and 2+ years with a rookie QB.

Sorry, but 4 years wasted doesn't excite me much more than 5.

Titty Meat 12-07-2009 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6326570)
I'd like to know how anyone that has watched Cassel this year can be remotely excited about him. I didn't want the guy and I'm even less thrilled now than I was before the year started.

I'm not excited about this years Chiefs but like i've said, it'll be this off-season where I judge Pioli.

'Hamas' Jenkins 12-07-2009 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326564)
I thought leaders were overrated?

Not leaders who lead.

Flipping the bird to the O who is whipping your ass and slamming your helmet isn't leadership.

keg in kc 12-07-2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6326570)
I'd like to know how anyone that has watched Cassel this year can be remotely excited about him. I didn't want the guy and I'm even less thrilled now than I was before the year started.

I don't see anybody talking about Cassel but billay. And you.

Titty Meat 12-07-2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326573)
Because they won't admit their mistake after 2.

Hell, for sake of conversation, let's say they do.

So we're at 2 years of growing pains with a 27 year old, and 2+ years with a rookie QB.

Sorry, but 4 years wasted doesn't excite me much more than 5.

This is a valid point.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6326563)
Declining defense.

Cassel was NOT responsible for the Pats missing the playoffs. 11 wins *should* get you in the tournament (high fives Carl).

11 should, and you are right the defense is what lost them 4 of those games

Hammock Parties 12-07-2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326553)
Yea and if the Chiefs win next week you'll write about how good Haley is. Sorry you're kind of irrelevant.

But it's the truth.

Why do you think Cassel's play has gone down while the rest of the team improves?

Titty Meat 12-07-2009 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6326577)
Not leaders who lead.

Flipping the bird to the O who is whipping your ass and slamming your helmet isn't leadership.

haha Vrabel flipped the bird?

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326573)
Because they won't admit their mistake after 2.

Hell, for sake of conversation, let's say they do.

So we're at 2 years of growing pains with a 27 year old, and 2+ years with a rookie QB.

Sorry, but 4 years wasted doesn't excite me much more than 5.

sorry i forgot you can read minds. we'll see how everything plays out

Titty Meat 12-07-2009 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6326586)
But it's the truth.

Why do you think Cassel's play has gone down while the rest of the team improves?

Dropping 2 Td's is improvement? This offense hasn't imrpoved Claythan, the line is still ass, we have a RB who can't hold onto the ball. The teams best player has missed 4 games and we've still won more then last year.

Marcellus 12-07-2009 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326477)
I personally haven't seen that Frank.

My argument for Dorsey is that he was mis-used his rookie year, and now moved to a position that he really doesn't fit at, but could make work because of his overall talent level.

I think both Jackson and Dorsey will be serviceable players and have long careers.

I expect more than serviceable out of two Top-5 picks we have over $60M invested in, however.


Now Dorsey (who was not drafted by this group as we all know) and Jackson have been relegated to never going to be better than serviceable and then the $ is thrown in there to prove they must be better than good to be a success.

Yet when the $ was discussed when draft time came around and some people thought it was too risky to throw that much $ at a rookie QB the answer to that was why the hell do you care, its not your money.

Now Cassel is the $60 Million failure. The money seems to be a pretty hot topic now, though it sure wasn't in April.

Hammock Parties 12-07-2009 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326593)
Dropping 2 Td's is improvement? This offense hasn't imrpoved Claythan, the line is still ass, we have a RB who can't hold onto the ball. The teams best player has missed 4 games and we've still won more then last year.

The production from the running game has improved. Chambers is a massive upgrade. Pope is an upgrade. The pass blocking has improved quite a bit. It was very solid yesterday.

Cassel has not improved. His completion percentage and touchdown to interception ratio have taken nosedives in the last six weeks.

Are you blind? These things are obvious.

OnTheWarpath15 12-07-2009 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326551)
but all we heard was that cassel lost 5 games and the year before they went 16-0, all that was on cassel. Why this year is it not on brady? hypocritical IMO

First, they are playing a much tougher schedule, and second, their defense isn't playing to expectations with the loss of Seymour and the injury to Mayo.

The numbers look comparable, but they've gone from facing Favre, Pennington and Edwards twice a season to Sanchez, Henne and Fitzpatrick.

The passing offense, however, has improved.

Marcellus 12-07-2009 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6326586)
But it's the truth.

Why do you think Cassel's play has gone down while the rest of the team improves?

Isn't this a bit hypocritical considering the article you wrote after the game?
Which is it? Are they getting better or not. You are really confusing me.

Titty Meat 12-07-2009 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6326599)
The production from the running game has improved. Chambers is a massive upgrade. Pope is an upgrade. The pass blocking has improved quite a bit. It was very solid yesterday.

Cassel has not improved. His completion percentage and touchdown to interception ratio have taken nosedives in the last six weeks.

Are you blind? These things are obvious.

That's not what you were saying 2 weeks ago which again proves my point. Pope is an upgrade at tight end? ROFL. Come on man a craftsmen is only as good as his tools. The offense has to be pretty much one deminsional because of the defense.

OnTheWarpath15 12-07-2009 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326569)
pioli was around for quite sometime before the pats with BB. i would bet that he was a little more important than that. we'll see. maybe they NEED EACH OTHER. BB isnt looking so hot himself so far on his own. maybe he'll be our next HC.


kidding kidding

Ernie Adams has been with BB since the ****ing 70's - and he has no more power than Pioli or anyone else in the organization had.

Belichick had final say on all football operations decisions.

This is backed up in print, in interviews, etc.

It's really not debatable.

OnTheWarpath15 12-07-2009 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326588)
sorry i forgot you can read minds. we'll see how everything plays out

Feel free to ignore the rest of my post that details what happens if I'm wrong.

Marcellus 12-07-2009 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326618)
Ernie Adams has been with BB since the ****ing 70's - and he has no more power than Pioli or anyone else in the organization had.

Belichick had final say on all football operations decisions.

This is backed up in print, in interviews, etc.

It's really not debatable.

Looks like he could use some outside input right about now.

Hammock Parties 12-07-2009 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay (Post 6326612)
That's not what you were saying 2 weeks ago which again proves my point.

Sure it was. I've been dogging Cassel since Week 7.

And Pope is definitely an upgrade over Sean Ryan.

OnTheWarpath15 12-07-2009 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 6326597)
Now Dorsey (who was not drafted by this group as we all know) and Jackson have been relegated to never going to be better than serviceable and then the $ is thrown in there to prove they must be better than good to be a success.

Yet when the $ was discussed when draft time came around and some people thought it was too risky to throw that much $ at a rookie QB the answer to that was why the hell do you care, its not your money.

Now Cassel is the $60 Million failure. The money seems to be a pretty hot topic now, though it sure wasn't in April.

Do you understand the concept of value?

Would you pay a long snapper $15M a year?

Of course not.

Some positions are worth more than others.

5-tech isn't worth wrapping $60m into, whether you have the cap room or not.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326620)
Feel free to ignore the rest of my post that details what happens if I'm wrong.

i didnt ignore anything, it WILL set us back if he's not the guy, thats not debatable so why waste my time typing about it?

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326618)
Ernie Adams has been with BB since the ****ing 70's - and he has no more power than Pioli or anyone else in the organization had.

Belichick had final say on all football operations decisions.

This is backed up in print, in interviews, etc.

It's really not debatable.

what does ernie adams do?

DaWolf 12-07-2009 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6326599)
The production from the running game has improved. Chambers is a massive upgrade. Pope is an upgrade. The pass blocking has improved quite a bit. It was very solid yesterday.

Cassel has not improved. His completion percentage and touchdown to interception ratio have taken nosedives in the last six weeks.

Are you blind? These things are obvious.

I thought we were still in the "See Trent Green's first season here" phase.

Cassel isn't improving, at least over the last two weeks, but you can pretty much say that about every phase of the team. Defense, horrible. Running Backs, fumbling. Receivers, drops.

This may point to a deeper issue, coaching. And remember, Haley is the HC, OC, and QB coach. Thus far he has been piss poor at all three jobs...

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326605)
First, they are playing a much tougher schedule, and second, their defense isn't playing to expectations with the loss of Seymour and the injury to Mayo.

The numbers look comparable, but they've gone from facing Favre, Pennington and Edwards twice a season to Sanchez, Henne and Fitzpatrick.

The passing offense, however, has improved.

are you saying that sanchez, henne, and fitzpatrick are an improvement over farve, pennington, and edwards? really? serious?



WOW

ChiefsCountry 12-07-2009 04:30 PM

Patriots were the wrong freaking organization to mimmick. Should have went after somebody from Pittsburgh or Baltimore. They draft better, are used to money situations in small markets like ours, and have better players overall. Brady and Bellichick make the Patriots so dangerous. Just watch come January, that is when Brady is at his best.

OnTheWarpath15 12-07-2009 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326636)
what does ernie adams do?

Belichick's long time right hand man.

I Had to cut part of this due to size.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams

Quote:

PHOENIX -- You don't notice Ernie Adams at first, but he's always there in his own peculiar way. Walking the halls in the Patriots' complex, lost in his own thoughts, he will often ignore co-workers. In meetings, he has been known to fall asleep. After practice, he is almost always the first person Bill Belichick consults. On game day, he's in the press box with a headset on, running numbers, computing percentages and, some around the league insinuate, overseeing more insidious operations.

When Belichick is taking those lonely walks up and down the sideline, his head bowed as if in prayer, you can bet it's Ernie Adams yapping away in Belichick's ear. Some call him the smartest man they've ever met. A longtime NFL watcher compares him to "Q," James Bond's master of espionage and gadgetry. Author David Halberstam called him "Belichick's Belichick." No other team has anyone like him on its payroll. And yet, save for football insiders, he is virtually unknown. In an era of media oversaturation, there is exactly one more picture of Bigfoot on The Associated Press photo wire (two) than there is of Adams (one). And it's of the back of his head.

So here, in the ballroom of the Phoenix Convention Center, just six days before New England will attempt to complete a perfect season that Adams played a significant role in creating, I want to know what the almost-perfect Patriots think about their secret weapon: a guy with thick glasses and the sartorial sensibility of Mister Rogers; a guy who lived with his mother until she died three years ago.

Who, exactly, is Ernie Adams?

"I don't know what his job title is," linebacker Adalius Thomas says. "I didn't even know his last name was Adams."

"Ernie is a bit of a mystery to all of us," offensive tackle Matt Light says. "I'm not sure what Ernie does, but I'm sure whatever it is, he's good at it."

Finally, I approach receiver Wes Welker. "I'm writing a story about Ernie Adams," I tell him.

"Who?" he says.

"The guy who's always with Belichick who doesn't ever really talk."

"Oh," he says, recognition washing over his face. "Ernie."

He thinks for a second. "He's got to be a genius," he says, "because he looks like one."

THE FRIENDSHIP

This is why God created best friends. Inside a cavernous church, Ernie Adams sat through his mother's funeral, the saddest day of a man's life, and by his side, where he'd been for years, was Bill Belichick. Sept. 25, 2004 was a beautiful New England day, a Saturday morning during the Patriots' bye week. In the tree-lined suburb of Brookline, Mass., a small crowd had gathered in the Gothic Revival Episcopal Church on the corner of St. Paul Street and Aspinwall Avenue. The stone bell tower rose cold and medieval against the fall blue sky.

The mourners had come to say goodbye to Helen Adams, a woman who loved education and adored her son even more. Ernie and Helen lived together, like something out of a Victorian novel, one friend said, with much doting and an occasional trip to the old continent. At the end, Ernie took care of his mother. In the crowd were friends from childhood, high school and college. One of them was the headmaster of Dexter School, where Ernie went to elementary and junior high. "I was struck by the loyalty of Belichick to Ernie," Bill Phinney says.

That bond is the cornerstone of the Patriots' dynasty. In many ways, the traits we associate with Belichick and the Patriots are traits commonly ascribed to Adams. The humble pie? Classic Ernie, frequently described as having no ego. The rumpled hoodie? Again, classmates remember, classic Ernie. Together, Adams and Belichick have created the transcendently successful franchise they dreamed of creating back in high school.

"It's really the story of a friendship," says Michael Carlisle, a successful literary agent who was Adams' high school roommate at Andover.

Adams and Belichick met in 1970. Adams had been at Phillips Academy in Andover, an elite New England boarding school, for three years. In that time, he'd become a campus legend, famous for his quirky attire and habits. He wore high-top cleats and old-fashioned clothes, looked and talked like something from the 1940s. His three obsessions were Latin, naval history and, strangely, football. So he consumed books, mostly obscure titles, with a scholar's thirst. One he ran across was called "Football Scouting Methods" by a Navy assistant coach named Steve Belichick. As Halberstam details in his biography of Belichick, "Education of a Coach," only about 400 people bought the book: professional scouts and 14-year-old Ernie Adams. So, imagine Adams' surprise when, as his senior year was beginning, he walked out onto the football field and encountered a young man with "Belichick" written on tape across the front of his helmet.

Bill Belichick had recently enrolled at Andover for a post-grad year, hoping to raise his grades and test scores so he could get into a good college. A few questions confirmed Adams' suspicions. Are you from Annapolis? Are you related to Steve? Yes and yes. Belichick thought it was strange that a kid would have read his dad's book. Adams recognized something familiar in Belichick. He recognized himself. "He actually was pretty good in his judgment of people," says Hale Sturges, the professor in charge of South Adams Hall, where Adams lived.

They've been like brothers ever since, spending hours after practice breaking down film, diagramming famous plays of Vince Lombardi, Adams' idol. They snuck into Boston College practices to "scout." Together, they played on the undefeated Andover team, the first time the two men tasted perfection.

Adams got his first big break after college, starting as an administrative assistant with the Patriots in 1975 and landing an actual assistant coach's job with the New York Giants in 1979. Immediately, he told Giants coach Ray Perkins there was another young coach he should hire. Something in Adams' voice made Perkins listen. Adams was already a man who demanded trust; Perkins calls Adams' opinion on football "gospel." So, Perkins picked up his phone and set up a meeting. After three hours in a hotel room, he had his new special teams coach: Bill Belichick. "Ernie's recommendation opened a big door for Belichick," Perkins says.

Belichick's career took off. He had something inside him that Adams did not -- maybe ego, maybe a hunger for greatness and glory. But wherever Belichick went, Adams soon followed, his arrival buried in the agate pages or reporters' midweek notebooks, his job title sufficiently vague to inspire more questions than answers. But there he was, in the background, breaking down film, offering Belichick unfettered honesty. When the Browns hired him, Halberstam wrote, it was Adams who cautioned Belichick to read the description of owner Art Modell in Paul Brown's book. "Don't say you weren't warned," Adams said. "It's all spelled out."

Stop after stop, no one was really sure how Adams spent his days, only that he had Belichick's ear. "When they talk," Carlisle says, "Bill knows that Ernie goes back to 1970. There is no bulls--- between them."


THE JOB

This brings us to the million-dollar question: Behind the quirks and the strange attire and the random attacks of sleep, what is it that Ernie Adams, you know, does? Years ago, Modell offered $10,000 to anyone who could tell him. No one could. A few years back, during a team film session, the Patriots players put up a slide of Adams. The caption read: "What does this man do?" Everyone cracked up. But no one knew.

In the broadest definition, Adams seems to be a man who loves to be in the background of greatness. Many things have his fingerprints on them, such as the game plan that engineered the upset of the Rams in Super Bowl XXXVI. Yes, Adams and Belichick figured out how to neutralize Marshall Faulk on the plane ride to New Orleans. Adams is involved in a lot of surprising things; he's a kind of "Forrest Gump" of sporting success. Like, say, the best-selling book "Friday Night Lights," which documented high school football, and later became a movie and a television show. That's right. "I'm indebted to him because he really turned me on to Odessa, Texas," says author Buzz Bissinger, who went to Andover with Adams and Belichick.

Adams' contributions to the Patriots begin with film. Hours and hours of film, often in his darkened office. He has been doing this for years, first at Northwestern in the early 1970s, where he convinced coaches to let him go from student-manager to scout. "He was a prodigy," says Rick Venturi, an assistant on that Wildcats team.

By now, after years of evolution, Adams sees film differently. Not just as random actions, but a genealogy of the game of football. When a defender moves, he recalls watching or having read about the first time a defender moved like that, even if it was 50 years ago, and he knows why, which tells him how to counteract the move. He has a photographic memory. Perkins tells a story of Adams' memorizing the Giants' thick playbook. In one night.

So, every week, the Patriots get the kind of analysis that only high-powered hedge funds or, say, NASA can afford. "Nine times out of 10," Bissinger says, "Ernie sees something nobody else sees."

That memory and those hours of studying film make him an unparalleled resource for assistant coaches. Want to know what a team does, and why? Want to know what a team has done on third-and-short in the red zone in the past 10 years on the road? Ask Adams. He'll know.

Adams' reach doesn't stop there. The Patriots are famous for compartmentalizing: The scouts can't watch practice, the game planners don't know who they are going to draft, and so on. But Adams is into everything. During the draft, according to Michael Holley's "Patriot Reign," he's in charge of running through the team's value chart, figuring out who will best fit their needs. This is the perfect assignment for someone who spent several years in the late 1980s as an analyst and trader on Wall Street and, as an investor, is known for spotting profitable trends shockingly early.

Pats owner Robert Kraft, a successful businessman in his own right, discusses economics with Adams. Belichick jokes that he wishes Adams would manage his portfolio. And the roots of the Patriots' insistence on value, and not letting emotion get in the way of sound investments, sound like they might have sprung from the mind of one Ernie Adams. "Warren Buffett and Ernie are actually somewhat similar," Carlisle says. "I have met Warren Buffet. Warren is one of these people who is phenomenally rigorous in his analysis. If there was someone you might associate with Ernie, it is someone who is [also] slightly asocial."

Adams' official title is director of football research, and he does a lot of that, too, trolling the world for things that might offer the slightest advantage. A year or two ago, an Andover teammate ran across an obscure out-of-print book on nonlinear mathematics. He thought Adams might find a use for it, so he mailed it to him. Adams had already read it. Or there's Rutgers statistics professor Harold Sackrowitz, who got a call from Adams a few years back. Adams wanted to talk about some research Sackrowitz had just completed, dealing with how teams try two-point conversions far too often. Adams sent the professor the Patriots' when-to-go-for-two chart, and asked Sackrowitz to tear it apart. Of the 32 NFL teams, the statistician told the New York Times, only the Patriots called.

Here's another example: The academic paper of a Berkeley researcher, referenced in the same Times story, dealt with how teams punt on fourth down far too often. That paper ended up on Belichick's desk. Now, how do you imagine it got there?

On game day, Adams wears a headset in the press box, a direct line to Belichick. Adams advises Belichick on which plays to challenge, and charts trends. "The one thing the Patriots do better than anyone else is they adjust and make halftime adjustments," Sturges says. "Ernie Adams is the guy who does that."

Are there other game-day duties? While it is commonly accepted that most teams try to steal signals, and New England was actually caught in the well-publicized Spygate incident, one former Patriots insider said a videotape of signals wouldn't help the other 31 teams nearly as much because they wouldn't have Ernie Adams there to quickly analyze and process the information.

And, if any of this happens to be true, Adams' love of military history suggests he might see deciphering signals as just part of winning a battle. Friends say he is wildly competitive. "Behind the exterior of a guy who lived with his mother," Bissinger says, "he is a guy who is really savage about winning games."


Courtesy of Phillips Academy, copyright John Hurley 2005
Working strictly behind the scenes, Adams had a giant hand in the Patriots' success.

THE MAN

But that doesn't totally answer the question, does it? Knowing what Adams does cannot explain where a mind like his comes from. Did it come fully formed from the womb, or was it created slowly? Certainly, at an early age, he searched for strong male influences. His father, who wasn't around much, was a career Navy officer. As he grew up, Adams studied naval history and tactics almost as much as he studied football. But from the beginning, there was something strange about him. As a high school teammate describes him: "Odd, in a good sense."

Dexter athletic director George Dalrymple hasn't forgotten the first time he ever saw Adams. The boy was in third grade and Dalrymple walked into the locker room to find, gathered in total silence, a group of first and second graders. In the center stood Ernie, reading them "Winnie the Pooh." That year, Adams began playing football. He adored the game, latching on to Coach Dal. A quote from Vince Lombardi in the coach's office would stay with Adams, inspiring a lifelong love affair. Football is only two things. Blocking and tackling. Even then, Adams showed hints of what was to come. His favorite play, installed at his request, was a goal-line, tackle-eligible play. Adams was the decoy. The play almost always worked. He didn't mind not getting the credit. "It was part of winning," Dalrymple says. "He liked to win."

While in sixth and seventh grades, Adams read Lombardi's book "Run to Daylight" about 20 times. His obsessive personality drew him further into the web of this game, one with X's and O's he could control, men he could make appear whenever he wanted. It was simple, something missing in the 1960s. The campus and nearby Harvard were exploding in anger over the Vietnam War. Everything was turned upside down. "He was very old-fashioned," Bissinger says. "He was sort of the Lombardi era. Something about him was out of the 1940s. He was just different. He had no knowledge of rock 'n' roll or sex or drugs. The [high] school was rampant with it. Everyone was stoned. Everyone was drinking. And there was Ernie in his high-top cleats talking football with the head coach."

Still, the environment at Andover encouraged his searching. He has been lucky that way. His entire educational life, he has lived and studied in incubators of creativity. Dexter educated John F. Kennedy and Washington Post legend Ben Bradlee. Andover is famous for its students, too. Dr. Spock went there. So did Samuel Morse and Duncan Sheik, as did both Presidents Bush, and Jeb Bush, who graduated with Adams. (Scooter Libby also went to school with Adams.) Humphrey Bogart went to Andover. Jack Lemmon, too. Bart Giamatti and Bill Veeck. Senators, ambassadors, Medal of Honor winners, Nobel laureates. Andover is a place that encourages its students to dream of greatness and achieve it. Only, they didn't quite know what to do with a kid who wanted to be great at … football. Teachers wrote worried letters to his mother. So did Sturges, who thought Adams had the potential to do anything he desired. "I wanted him to try different things and move out of his little cubicle-type thinking," he says. "It never really happened."

But Adams took his task seriously, devoting his senior project to the study of the Andover football team's tendencies. "We throw around too many words," Bissinger says. "We throw around 'brilliant' too much and 'genius' too much, but I really believe this: Ernie was a scholar at football. And he was a scholar at football at Andover. Kids were scholars of physics. Kids were scholars of Latin. Kids were scholars of math. And here was this sweet, goofy guy who was a scholar of football."


THE MIND

That is how this mind was molded, but still, it does not take us into the mind itself. Only Ernie Adams can do that, and he won't. You might have noticed Adams isn't quoted here. He's rarely quoted anywhere or, for that matter, seen anywhere. Especially this week, when he's searching for the tiniest advantage. "Look for him at Super Bowl parties," Sturges told me. "Look for him. And I bet you won't find him. He is going to spend every minute out there preparing for this football game. It means everything to him."

Remember that if you happen to catch a glimpse of Ernie Adams on Sunday, wearing a headset in the press box, in the ear of a coaching legend. Think about the miracles of fate that brought him from a book-lined room in South Adams Hall to the center of the football universe. Look into the quiet corners of the Patriots' success and see a man who seems more fascinated with those who study greatness than those who are great themselves.

'Hamas' Jenkins 12-07-2009 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326649)
are you saying that sanchez, henne, and fitzpatrick are an improvement over farve, pennington, and edwards? really? serious?



WOW

You are to reading comprehension what Frank Stallone is to popular music.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6326659)
You are to reading comprehension what Frank Stallone is to popular music.

ok i re-read it i see what he said now. sorry

OnTheWarpath15 12-07-2009 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326649)
are you saying that sanchez, henne, and fitzpatrick are an improvement over farve, pennington, and edwards? really? serious?



WOW

No, you idiot.

I'm saying that statistically, the 2009 defense compares to the 2008 defense - but that's not the case, as any Patriots fan or someone who watches them regularly can attest to.

Their defensive rankings are still in line (in part) because they have the luxury of facing 3 inexperienced QB's twice this season.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326657)
Belichick's long time right hand man.

I Had to cut part of this due to size.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=adams

i know what he does, but if you REALLY ask most would have said pioli was his right hand man

OnTheWarpath15 12-07-2009 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 6326659)
You are to reading comprehension what Frank Stallone is to popular music.

ROFL

I gotta get some work done for Finals Week.

I'll catch up later.

BucEyedPea 12-07-2009 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 6325909)
That's well known though, the Patriots have been drafting like total shit for quite awhile now.

Is that why their young D isn't that good?

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 6326665)
No, you idiot.

I'm saying that statistically, the 2009 defense compares to the 2008 defense - but that's not the case, as any Patriots fan or someone who watches them regularly can attest to.

Their defensive rankings are still in line (in part) because they have the luxury of facing 3 inexperienced QB's twice this season.

see theres no reason to call names, thats not nice. the defense last year didnt really compare to the defense the year before either, yet all you guys would say is that cassel took a 16-0 team and made them 11-5, that wasnt true

FAX 12-07-2009 04:37 PM

Haley just made a comment which was news to me. Apparently, the Fabulous Chiefs now lead the league in dropped passes. I didn't even know they tracked this stat. Nevertheless, it's this kind of problem that makes the whole "Kill Pioli" deal kind of .... MOOT!!!

Throughout the squad, on both sides of the ball, from the top of the depth chart to the bottom, we are (and were) bereft of talent. The majority of our starters would likely not make the cut on a top, NFL team. For the most part, they are barely average and make mental errors like Victoria's Secret makes erections. When Pioli and Haley arrived, there was practically nothing to build around.

I'm sure that some people fully expect a brand new GM to unpack his bag on Monday and, by Wednesday, complete an overhaul of our pitiful scouting department, fully evaluate our lame-ass coaching staff, and rebuild our apparently non-existent player development group as well as identify, assess, and sign an essentially new roster of players that includes a few high impact, game changers. Oh, and while he's at it, make sure that the current players catch catchable balls. Yep. That's entirely reasonable.

FAX

Mecca 12-07-2009 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea (Post 6326673)
Is that why their young D isn't that good?

Considering they have 1 good young defensive player...pretty much.

SAUTO 12-07-2009 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX (Post 6326684)
Haley just made a comment which was news to me. Apparently, the Fabulous Chiefs now lead the league in dropped passes. I didn't even know they tracked this stat. Nevertheless, it's this kind of problem that makes the whole "Kill Pioli" deal kind of .... MOOT!!!

Throughout the squad, on both sides of the ball, from the top of the depth chart to the bottom, we are (and were) bereft of talent. The majority of our starters would likely not make the cut on a top, NFL team. For the most part, they are barely average and make mental errors like Victoria's Secret makes erections. When Pioli and Haley arrived, there was practically nothing to build around.

I'm sure that some people fully expect a brand new GM to unpack his bag on Monday and, by Wednesday, complete an overhaul of our pitiful scouting department, fully evaluate our lame-ass coaching staff, and rebuild our apparently non-existent player development group as well as identify, assess, and sign an essentially new roster of players that includes a few high impact, game changers. Oh, and while he's at it, make sure that the current players catch catchable balls. Yep. That's entirely reasonable.

FAX

at one point yesterday cassel was 5-13 with 7 drops. if those balls would have been caught that wouldnt have been too bad of a stat line huh?

Rooster 12-07-2009 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX (Post 6326684)
I'm sure that some people fully expect a brand new GM to unpack his bag on Monday and, by Wednesday, complete an overhaul of our pitiful scouting department, fully evaluate our lame-ass coaching staff, and rebuild our apparently non-existent player development group as well as identify, assess, and sign an essentially new roster of players that includes a few high impact, game changers. Oh, and while he's at it, make sure that the current players catch catchable balls. Yep. That's entirely reasonable.

FAX

What? That's not possible?

Hammock Parties 12-07-2009 04:46 PM

Anyone think having a quarterback who throws the ball behind receivers contributes to the dropped passes stat?

FAX 12-07-2009 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs (Post 6326713)
Anyone think having a quarterback who throws the ball behind receivers contributes to the dropped passes stat?

I don't know how they arrive at that statistic. Didn't even know they tracked it.

I imagine that the ball must be deemed "catchable" in the first place in order for it to be determined to be a "drop". Wouldn't you?

FAX

DeezNutz 12-07-2009 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 6326708)
at one point yesterday cassel was 5-13 with 7 drops. if those balls would have been caught that wouldnt have been too bad of a stat line huh?

And not all of those passes were worth a ****ing shit. One of those drops was the pass to Cox to start the game, and it was NOT a catchable ball for a ****ing FB.

Hammock Parties 12-07-2009 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX (Post 6326721)
I don't know how they arrive at that statistic. Didn't even know they tracked it.

I imagine that the ball must be deemed "catchable" in the first place in order for it to be determined to be a "drop". Wouldn't you?

FAX

Catchable doesn't mean it was a perfect pass.

Anyway, Cassel makes a lot more money than his dogshit receivers. Maybe if he put the ball in the best spot they wouldn't drop so many passes.

Sweet Daddy Hate 12-07-2009 04:51 PM

"If's, but's, candy and nuts".

FAX 12-07-2009 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 6326727)
And not all of those passes were worth a ****ing shit. One of those drops was the pass to Cox to start the game, and it was NOT a catchable ball for a ****ing FB.

See, that's the problem. Some guys see the glass half full and some guys spill it on the floor while playing "Jiggle Jugs" with a fat girl's bosom.

Still, somebody's counting and, according to Haley, we're leading the league in the drops department.

FAX

Christofire 12-07-2009 04:56 PM

Probably said already, but here we go:

How about we just acknowledge that there is no exact science to finding the kind of chemistry that won 3 SBs in 4 yrs in NE? All of the planets aligned ... players filled the right roles at the right time ... talents and strategic thinking meshed perfectly in that short span of time, and paid great dividends.

Belichick is still a great football mind. The pats are still a winning organization. But reality is you can't just plug guys with similar physical traits in and expect them to have the same instincts and the same intuitive knowledge of the scheme as the guy who played it so well before.
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