But we aren't and that's the rub for most of you. You get what you get, and this team is just not really ready for prime time, that's the facts of life here. We are doing better now than the past 2 or 3 years. The team is looking to take steps to get better each year.

Should we get better and get through the playoffs are you all still going to hammer Cassel if he is the QB?

No, because if we win a couple playoff games, that means Cassel would not be starting.

Cassel will never win a playoff game in Kansas City.

Wanna put a bet on that?

True. I wouldn't mind keeping Brodie as a backup I think that is what he is good at but we need to cut bait with Cassel after the season.

Brokie is Broken. Dude isnt going to lead KC to anything, nor is he a solution at Backup QB...

No thanks, He needs to go sell insurance in AL somewhere...

You up to the bet? How about if Chiefs win a playoff game while Cassel is starting, you take a one year ban from CP... But it has to be a ban by the mods... Otherwise you would just welch like a little bitch...

And if the Chiefs never win a playoff game while Cassel is the QB, I will take a one year Mod ban....

Lets see how confident you are... Lets see you put your confidence where your man pleaser is...

I'm so confident in the fact that Cassel won't win a playoff game in Kansas City, that I don't even need you to put up anything.

Besides, I enjoy your posts too much.

If Cassel wins a playoff game with the Chiefs, ban my ass for a year.

Come on, man up...

We would all miss Gifed up and all of the other contributions that GC makes to the board these days, you however, can get fugged for all anyone cares.

This defense will never win a playoff game in Kansas City.

This wide receiving group will never win a playoff game in Kansas City.


It's a TEAM SPORT.

LMAO

It could with a very good QB.

There's no balance to this discussion about Matt Cassel.
It's either extreme right or extreme left.

There are people who claim he's unable to hit an open target.
The same people fail to give him credit when he does in a game like last week. They say it's because he's facing softer coverage, but why should that matter if he's so inaccurate?

Then on the other side there are those who never criticize him. They ignore the over/underthrows. They ignore how quickly he gets uncomfortable with pressure around him. They turn a blind eye to him hanging on to the ball too long.

I'm not a fan of Matt Cassel, but I can criticize him when he deserves it...
And praise him when he deserves it.

QB's stink up the joint against Prevent defenses every week.
It was maddening to see people ignore a 4 TD game (with no INT's) entirely.

I'll be the first one to tell you that that success should've come earlier in the game, but I'll never turn my nose up to that kind of performance entirely.

He's not the answer long-term. I think this team should draft a QB come April, but I also think he's done good things this year.

He has just as many TD's as he did in '09...with only a fourth as many INT's.
And there are still 7 left to play. He's also completing just under 60% of his passes. Give credit where credit is due.

Wait? Wut?

Oh, for the love of Christ. :facepalm:

My how the worm has turned on GoChiefs here at ChiefsPlanet. GoChiefs was once the Matt Cassel of ChiefsPlanet and now he's a franchise poster.

Eloquent. Don't trouble yourself with assembling an intelligible response.
[Insert boilerplate insult and standard Cassel criticism]

I think this proves the very extreme hate of everything Matty Light...

This is more like it....

There's nothing the man can do to change some people's minds.

Chris Chambers would be a pro bowler with Sanchez?

There would be a better pass rush? The D wouldn't completely cave in like they did against Denver and the Texans? Special teams would suddenly return to the level they played the first two weeks of the year?

There aren't really many (maybe none at all) on the extreme Matt Cassel supporter side of this argument. There are the extreme critics and the people who take a more balanced view but who may not find it necessary to join the hate wagon over every little blemish in his game. I can't think of anyone here who thinks Matt Cassel has proven himself as the long term answer at QB for the Chiefs. We have people who remain open minded about the possibility and people who have already made their decision that he's already exceeding his upside maximum (don't ask me how they get there).

Damon Huard didn't get enough hate to match what GoChiefs used to get.

Thank you.

Damon Huard > Matt Cassel

Fair enough, I was using it as a comparison of his unconditional love and support for Huard...

The Chiefs would be about the same team they are now with Sanchez.

The only difference is they would have much greater potential.

Cassel has hit his ceiling. Sanchez is only getting better with every game.

We spent a 2nd rd on this guy and it must be understood that when Pioli brought this guy over they saw him as a rookie "NOT" as seasoned veteran. This is how upper mgmt is looking at this guy and why they are so patient.

He had only 1 season under his belt with a very superior cast around that allowed him to show his potential. "IF" Cassel doesn't take advantage of that superior cast around him then he is just a b/u QB. The problem is that his first yr here he went from a superior O-line to a "high school line" which would scar "anybody" and would take time to trust your line even if you get the time. This is why I feel he misses WRs so wide open when there is no pressure. He got spoiled in NE and was in the shotgun much of the time which didn't help. Also we must remember he just doesn't have that many snaps under center from a legit O-line until this yr.

Does he play like a back-up? Yes! And like alot of you I just sit back and shake my head. He needs to start working through the pressure of being an NFL QB.

I cant. No one can. You're just not getting it.

Inflating his stats against a prevent D wont do it. If you think what cassel did during that 2nd half was impressive, then there is no help for you.

Well BCD said the Chiefs are a playoff winning team with a better QB. I disagree. KC isn't a complete team. Cassel isn't the only player holding the team back. The team still has lots of problems that have been exposed lately.

I'm not happy with Cassel. I wanted KC to make a move for Bradford, or use the early 2nd on Clausen, or late 2nd or third on McCoy. I don't think he's the answer, but I'm willing to admit he's improved some this year and part of the problems people are complaining about are a direct result of the way he's being coached this year. Open it up and let him sink or swim.

I was just as disturbed with the defense in the first half as you are with matty light...

Compelling.

lol, wut?! I guess he'll be "developed" by 32? Gimme a break, man. Just do it:

Walk over to the toilet in your mind, envision Cassel floating there like the big, chocolate turd he is, and hit the flush lever.

You can do this, I have Faith.

You can't bet on that. Cassel isn't as bad as you guys want to think. He is following the game plan.

He's not nearly as good as you think, either.

I don't think he's bad. I think he's a good backup.

I think you need to be specific on the bet. What if the Chiefs win in the playoffs but it's a special teams TD that wins it? I would be specific enough to say that the Chiefs win a playoff game with Cassel as the starting QB. Otherwise there is wiggle room.

So you are part of the left?

What would it take for you to understand that Cassel may not be as good as the top 5, but he is ranked in the top 10 in the league.

If we had the #32 QB, as many of you seem to rate Cassel, I can pretty much stand on the fact that we wouldn't have won 5 games so far this season.

There have been several posters in this very thread who have laid out exactly what he can do to change peoples' minds.

"some people's minds" is different than "all minds"

Rankings/Ratings are vastly overrated. His current rating is higher than Manning's.

Yes.
For God's sake, don't ask how they got there, considering it's been discussed with those poster's evidence in every thread about the guy.

Not in this lifetime. Tyler Thigpen was better than Damon Horrid. The bottom 5 in the NFL rankings were better than Horrid.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...0/seasontype/2

He's an average quarterback, and we still have a below average defense.

He's proved he can score a go-ahead touchdown, on the road, in the 4th quarter, against a division rival...but our defense has constantly proved they CANNOT consistently hold a team when it really matters.

He's an average quarterback, and we still have a below average defense.

I'm not going to debate Damon Huard. It's 2010.

All I will say is he stepped into his throws.

If he can increase his 3rd down conversion % by about 5-8%, I'll be happy. That won't happen though. His solid stats and passer rating is masking his horrible inefficiency in 3rd down conversions.

Explain how Bowe caught 86 balls in his 2nd season then?

I never knew it was possible to be SO bad on 3rd down.

I think you're too uptight to read clearly today, Sully. Settle down, take a deep breath and think about the meanings of the words.

Relax. Breathe.

Now, can you explain how someone would believe that Matt Cassel has already exceeded his maximum potential? If you read that right, you should be thinking to yourself, "no, I can't". Neither can I.

FWIW, Damon Huard was very good on third down and threw the ball down the field with accuracy in 2006. Chiefs were #10 in third-down conversion percentage and Huard completed 52.5 percent of his passes on third down. He was 52.6 percent over 10 yards and 57 percent from 11-20, which is good.

Cassel has never done that. Neither has Thigpen.

He gets it, but he is like many here. He's on the right side of the fence and the rest seems to be totally downfield from the left side of the fence.

It doesn't matter how much one side tries to explain what is going on regarding the other view there is just no middle ground.

You on the left side only see the down side, those on the right side see the potential and are not as quick to judge. The right side hates to lose as much as those on the left, but they refuse to tack a loss purely on the QB where it seems that is the only target you have in your sights.

Cassel could throw up jump balls to a double covered TG.

Before the Denver game, we were 27th in the league at 34%. Now we're 26th. The league average is 39%.

I can't find stats for 3rd down conversion % for passing only for 2010, however, last year Cassel was at 25% for passing only. I'd be surprised if he was anything higher than 30% this year.

Too bad you can't see it right to give Cassel a chance with that faith. He is 9games into a new offense, a new offense for the 3rd time in 2 years. You expect a freaking miracle just because we have a better defense than we've had for many years.

What if....

the Chiefs somehow make it to the playoffs, is Cassel still crap?

the Chiefs win one or more games in the playoffs, is Cassel still crap?

the Chiefs make it to the Super Bowl this year and Cassel wins MVP. Is he still crap?

All of you on the left side of the fence will say yes and will be willing to ship him off because he doesn't meet your expectations. Have you ever wondered if he meets the expectations of the Chiefs administration?

Holy ****, that's awful.

Where did you find that?

What if he continues to blow chunks?

Guess where the smart money is?

Okay, let me try it this way...
If I am reading your words correctly, you are stating that you have no idea what evidence people would use to come to the conclusion that Cassel has reached his ceiling. Is that correct?

If it is;
Then you are being willfully ignorant, as those posters have laid out exactly how and why they came to that conclusion. The fact that you disagree, or that they may be incorrect has no bearing on what you said, ("don't ask me how they got there").

Some posters believe they have more football knowledge than Scott Pioli. I couldn't disagree more with them, but I'd be a liar if I pretended that they've never made their case for that conclusion.

You have neither proof for or against that comment.

All of the things you people claim against him, short passes, passes off the mark, can't throw the long ball, etc, have all been done by other QB's inthe league. Tom Brady makes those mistakes, so do the Mannings.

What else are you going to use to support your claim? He doesn't shower well?

All things considered I would think a fan of the Chiefs would see improvement in the team overall from the past several years and see there is a light at the end of the tunnel. If Cassel doesn't meet the expectations of the front office he will be gone in plenty of time. If he is gone this year are you going to go into full out attack on the next guy because he is new to the system and not getting the job done to your satisfaction?

You guys have just picked someone you feel is a weak link and have lost focus on the rest of the team. Our defense totally sucked against Denver, but you still are hammering the QB? That's a non squitor.

Some unrealistic expectations for the instant gratification crowd. They won't give him a chance to achieve those goals nor will they give him credit if he does.

Cassel is quite bi-polar on 3rd down. His lowest completion% is on passes 0-2 yards (25%).
He's not bad on 3-7 yards (57%), bad on 8-10 yards (33%), and decent on 11+ (58%).

Linky. The team was 46/182 (some of that was Croyle early on). On 1-3 yards, we were 44%. On 4-7 yards, 30%. On 8+ yards, 17%.

Interestingly enough, the Chiefs faced more 3rd and long's (8+ yards) than any team last year.

When he made them. Horrid was terrible, the only good thing he did was ensure the end of Herman Edwards in KC.

I agree with this. Especially the bolded part. Except, I don't think there's any chance in hell that they'll change up what they're doing and let Cassel try and throw farther down the field. If he were capable of it without hundreds of sacks and INTs, then they'd be doing it. The only reason they would have for holding back the vertical passing game is if it were a direct detriment to their progress. The coaches aren't going to put Cassel in a position where they feel he might fail.

And that's my main criticism of Cassel. I don't want a QB with this expensive of a contract, that requires the rest of the offense to be scaled back to a level that makes us easier to defend against. We've seen over the last few weeks what kind of position that can put us in. Right now, the way we're playing, unless the running game is working well, our offense is fairly neutered. And while Cassel isn't bad enough that he's single-handedly losing games, he's still not good enough to overcome any kind of struggles in other areas of the offense.

Is that completion %, or 3rd down conversion %?

That's completion percentage.

Then the front office and Haley will take care of the situation. Nothing said here will have an impact on it.

BUT, you are totally discounting that he may have the tools and they are just not being used by Weis and Haley.

No, that's not correct. I said that some people think he has already exceeded his ceiling. That's obviously something that can't happen which is why I said "don't ask me how they get there". I was exaggerating for humorous effect. Whatever effect there might have been is ruined by the explanation though. :(

completion %. I don't know if 3rd down conversion % by yardage is available for the public.

You're right.
I missed that.
I apologize.

I found it for last year. Couldn't find it for this year.

Here.

No need to apologize, but thanks anyway. :)

You're only hoping that they do.

We have no way of knowing their level of competency.

There are umpteen BILLION examples of idiot general managers and head coaches sticking with lousy quarterbacks.

The Chiefs were ready to commit to Tyler ****ing Thigpen if Carl and Herm had been retained. The Redskins just gave a stupid contract to McNabb.

It's pretty clear Cassel can return the Chiefs to mediocrity. Will Pioli throw that away for a chance at a real quarterback when he has so much money and reputation invested in the success of the one he just picked?

We'll see. This decision is going to define Pioli.

He is not hated. He is just perceived as someone who was paid Franchise QB money with Backup QB talent. If he were a our 5th round pick making 5th round money he would be fairly popular. Most people would be very happy with him as our 2nd string QB and even admit he is not the worst starting QB in the League.

The problem is that since most of us have actually watched a football game. If Phillip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers, Michael Vick, Tom Brady, and Ben Rothlisberger's names were put on pieces of paper and randomly drawn from a hat and we had to take whatever name was pulled to be traded straight up for Cassel 99.9% would be happy regardless of who we received. OK, so that is a no brainer but, I also think almost all of us would take the same chance if the names in the hat were Matt Schaub, Tony Romo, Matt Ryan Josh Freeman,Sam Bradford, Kyle Orton Vince Young, Kevin Kolb, Mathew Stafford, Eli Manning, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Colt McCoy, Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Mark Sanchez, Chad Henne and Joe Flacco, That puts him pretty far down the list. The point being that the best of the rest would be an upgrade and the worst of the rest, really wouldn't be much different than what we have now.

According to who?

Cassel can RETURN the Chiefs to mediocrity? When in the past 5 years have we risen to the level of mediocrity? Have you missed the fact that the Chiefs have sucked since Vermeil left? At least this year they are wining games based on who is here now and not who was leftover as with the first year of Edwards. That 9-7 year was totally the leftovers, Herman had little or nothing to do with the Chiefs going to the playoffs that year and since then we have been the joke of the AFC.

As for your comments about "umpteen BILLION examples of idiot general managers", that goes against any kind of common sense. Can you name one time that Pioli has been defined in that manner? That is just not a comparison that should even be considered with this GM.

You don't really know what Thigpen could have done with a decent team around him, maybe he would have been a bust but that is a total unknown. He was more effective than anyone that played QB for the Chiefs the year he had playing time.

Message board draft gurus ;)

According to GoChiefs. Not really someone that seems to have anything in perspective regarding the administration of the Chiefs.

FYP

He's better than this time last year. Thats all I mean by that.

In other words, there is no reason to think it wont continue. Same as any developmental player that would come in. ]

Truth is CP is incapable of deveoping a new QB. Matt Cassel is proof of that.