Fair enough. I also think it's a slap in face to offer him 6/7 years. 8 years should be the minimum offer.

John Mozeliak must be ****ing killed.

I would sooner suck Carl Peterson's dick at halftime of the Super Bowl than take $10,000 in cash laundered from John Mozeliak.

Dude, Mozeliak is DeWitt's and LaRussa's puppet. He's working under DeWitt's restriction, not his.

It doesn't matter. Every one of them should be summarily executed if this deal does not get done.

If Pujols leaves, you can probably chop $150 million off the value of the franchise.

First of all Cardinals should give Pujols whatever the **** he wants. Without him, you guys are down to being the Royals with a shitter minor league system. But the evil side of me would love to see him leave, just so some certain Cardinal fans would know how losing your top players feel.

Jocketty worked under similar restrictions and got Edmonds, Rolen and Pujols signed for well below market.

One of them is excellent at his job and can work well within the restrictions given him. The other is a brainless automoton that has become the whipping boy of any ML trade table.

Not disagreeing with that. Playing Devil's Advocate here, but that trade for Holliday doesn't look nearly as bad as it did originally.

Responding to CC, it's going to **** the City of St. Louis if he leaves. Will not be pretty at all. Picture LeBron leaving Cleveland. That's what it would be like if Albert left. But the Cardinals won't be as bad as the Cavs.

That Holliday trade was still worse than it could have been simply because Mozeliak had to give up assets (even if they weren't good players) that he didn't have to because he waited too long.

The mother****er drags his feet like Neville Chamberlain. DeRosa, Holliday, now Pujols. The guy is a cocksucking moron.

But hey, why pay Ryan Ludwick and Jake Westbrook 15 million when you can pay 1.2 million more to Westbrook and a brokedick Lance Berkman.

Not to mention Mozeliak was suppose to reload your farm system. Well it still itsn't very good.

Getting rid of Jess Todd and Chris Perez for 1/3 of a season from a torn up Mark DeRosa sure didn't ****ing help, nor did giving away Gregerson for nothing.

The guy might be the worst GM in baseball.

No it will not.

The Cardinals owned this city before Albert, they'll continue to do so after him. Meanwhile they still have the Blues and Rams. The situations aren't anywhere close to analogous.

Albert leaving will sting. It will really hurt the franchise and whatever goodwill DeWitt may have built up with the city. But the Cardinals will live on without Albert. St. Louis most assuredly will.

Might be?

Name a worse one. When you start to go down the list of his 'accomplishments', you start to get a feel for how amazingly bad he is at this.

Has he made a 'good' trade yet? I really can't come up with one. And even his good signings (such as Lohse on a 1-year deal) come apart spectacularly (such as re-signing him to a 4 year, $40+ million deal with full no-trade protection instead of dealing him to the Yankees as was rumored).

He's just really really bad at this.

WTF is up with Fescoe? The Royals can cough up $300 million for Pujols and Pujols would want to come? Why?

Have you seen the young talent the Royals got coming up. Its basically Tampa Bay part II. You throw Pujols into that and watch out.

And its not just Fescoe. Jeff Gordon from the Post-Dispatch.
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/colum...7a4a78c22.html

uhhh Fescoe and Jeff Gordan are buddies from Fescoe's time in st. Louis.

So you have a 2 year window in which if you avoid injuries you might be able to compete with the big boys? That will make Pujols sign up for 10 years? come on man

It's not happening. Glass wouldn't throw money at Pujols.

Hey, KC, better not be running out and getting Pujols jerseys just yet.

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/new...s_stl&c_id=stl

From all I have heard true or untrue, the story is Stl has to offer what is considered the biggest $ to keep AP. If that's his groups stance they can die in a fire.

I understand them wanting to be paid appropriately but he also wants to be on a contender.

If he wants to be a Cardinal and be on a contender he has to leave room for other top players while being the highest paid guy on his club not necessarily in MLB.

Anything else puts his own wants before team needs. He is already wealthy beyond need x100 and will be rich forever with a reasonable top $ deal.

Your legacy is what you do, not what you get $. Being the #2 or 3 $ maker in baseball is no shame. Even if you are the #1 player.

This is as bad as the NFL CBA BS.

If they don't resign him they are the biggest idiots in the world.

Well said.

BTW, I think Albert could sign for $25 mil. and have up to $5 mil. in incentives.

The Cardinals ****ed up with the Holliday contract. Whether or not they decide to pay Pujols they are in a lose-lose situation. If they pay Pujols they'll have to say good bye to their rotation. If they don't pay him they have to say good bye to the best player in the league.

IMO, I'd say good bye to Pujols. You don't win in the playoffs with a mediocre rotation.

Take it from a Cubs fan.

The Cards have $43 mil. coming off the books over the next two seasons if they don't pick up any options. That's a lot. And it's not the Holliday contract that's hurting the Cards, it's the Lohse contract.

And that one hurts a lot in many ways.

Don't worry he is healthy this year.:rolleyes:

ROFL

You can't replace pujols but we can still afford a top ten payroll. We won't ever suck like the late 70's again.

I really really want Pujols resigned but, we can not resign him and win the WS, which is the ultimate goal.

We have won 1 in the last 10 years with him, many other teams have won without him.

I want him to be a Cardinal for his career but if it gets to be too much, so be it. More $ for other players as long as they pay it.

Oh yea, and as long as he doesn't become a Cub.

If he goes to the AL(any team besides the Red Sox or Yankees), I wouldn't feel that bad.

A pox upon your heirs for such a thought.

I agree.

The Cubs have alot of money coming off the books next year. They could afford him and Hendry is dumb enough to offer such a contract but if he isn't a Cardinal next year he'll probably be an Angel or Met.

No way he'll be a Met. The owner is being sued and the Angels just traded for Wells. Not happening.

I think you make your money back On the 300 million from marketing, jerseys, ticket sales and value of the franchise. He's going to start to break records in The next few years. It's a marketing blitz waiting to be leveraged. I could see he cubs doing it for that reason.

I agree. A lawsuit is definitely going to stop a NY franchise from bringing in the greatest player in the MLB, maybe history. And Wells is going to prevent the Angels from going after him too. :rolleyes:

The Mets owner is being sued $300 Million, IIRC. If he doesn't sell 20-25% of the franchise and loses the lawsuit, they are ****ed. And Wells has a contract of like 24 mil. per year.

It's not really about the next few years. It's about paying him 30mil a year into his 40's. I wouldn't have a problem with it if the deal was for 7-8 years but not 10.

He's making $21 mil for the next 4 years and he can opt out after this season, but I doubt he does. Regardless, neither one of your points are going to keep either team from signing Pujols.

And that's probably the same position the cardinals are taking inthe negoiations.

He's played like a $30 million/year player for 10 ****ing years. If DeWitt wasn't a total dumbshit, he should have realized that this day was coming, and should have socked at least some of that surplus value away for his eventual raise.

Carpenter and Berkman come off the books after this year. That's 20+ million in savings right there. Add that to Pujols' contract and you're at the same payroll you were before. Lohse comes off after 2012. That's another 10 million/year you can use on Wainwright and Rasmus.

The Cardinals' payroll was around 95 million last year. It has been north of $100 million several years ago in a ballpark that generated less revenue. This team can easily, easily sustain a payroll of $120 million. This comes down to DeWitt being cheap and Mozeliak being stupid.

1b: Pujols (30MM)
2b: Schumaker (3 MM)
SS: Theriot (3.3 MM)
3B: Freese (400k)
LF: Holliday (17 MM)
CF Rasmus (400k)
RF Berkman (8MM)
C: Molina (6.5MM)

Bench:

Jay (400k)
Craig (400k)
Laird (1.1 MM)
Punto (750 K)
Greene (400k)

SP: Wainwright (6.5 MM)
SP: Carpenter (15 MM)
SP: Garcia (400k)
SP: Westbrook (8 MM)
SP:Lohse (11.88 MM)

CP:Franklin (3.5 MM)
SU: Motte (400k)
RRP: McClellan (1.38k)
LHRP: Miller (2 MM)
LHRP: Tallett (750k)
RRP: Boggs (400k)
RRP: Lance Lynn (400k)
RRP: Adam Ottavino (400k)

That's 122.66 million.

Now, whack the Berkman, Lohse, and Carpenter contracts off. That's 35 million in savings.

You mean to tell me that the Cardinals couldn't take 20 million of that 35, giving them a 107 MM payroll, and replace Carpenter, Lohse, and Berkman?? Cut off Theriot and Schumaker. That's another 6 million of replacement-level production.

Basically, if the Cardinals can find a pitcher that can give them 90% of 2010 Chris Carpenter for $10 million per, they'll be able to swing the Pujols extension with no elevation of the payroll. Granted, they should tack on another 15-20 after that. If they spend that money wisely, this team could contend.

The wise long-term moves are to sign Pujols, shed Lohse and Carpenter, replace Berkman with Craig, and let the one strength of the farm system (RRHP) refill the bullpen. The team will need to find two quality MIFs and a #2 starter, because Garcia will never be that (IMO).

You don't think Shelby can be that #2?

What about Miller? The top 3 SPs of the rotation could be: Wainwright, Miller, Garcia with Lynn in the 5th spot. Westbrook is probably a short term solution for a 4th starter.

The other option is to let Pujols walk... and sign 30 Ross Gloads.

In 2014.

There's a chance he could be up with the Cardinals in mid-2013.

No way. AA star this year. Spring training invite and AAA star with a late callup in 2012. The big show in 2013.

He's not going to be a #2 starter then.

Look, there's also a chance you can get surplus value from Descalso, Tyler Greene, Jon Jay, or Allen Craig. If Craig and Descalso pan out as average starters at RF and 2B respectively, this team is in really good shape.

Same with freese, if he can stay healthy.

Dude, he's a high school pitcher. Even if he gets called up in 2013, he's not going to be at his full potential then. He'll be 22 years old when the 2013 season starts.

Counting on anything from David Freese is a fool's errand.

Still not really sure why some depth at 3B wasn't picked up this offseason for that same reason.

Same answer to everything else: John Mozeliak is a ****ing moron.

Even more irritating since I had grown used to the Cards being a well run team. Wonder when that ****ing changed and now the Reds are doing smart things.

Yup. It really is as simple as that...IF ownership does the right thing and raises payroll to a level commensurate with what it SHOULD be.

Remember, it wasn't too long ago that the Cardinals had the highest paid player in baseball on their team in Ozzie Smith. This mid-market stuff doesn't wash when revenues are as obscene as they are. The Cards can absolutely afford to pay Albert.

What they can't afford to do is pay $26 million for their 4th and 5th starters and the absolute worst middle infield in baseball.

Ultimately, if ownership shows the commitement to the team that it should, it won't be Albert's contract that kills the team (or Holliday's for that matter, just look at what Werth got). It will be the contracts handed out to lousy players like Lohse, Theriot and Skip that does it.

In closing - Mozeliak sucks.

Oh yeah, and with the resignation of Jerry Sloan, Tony LaRussa now has the longest continuous tenure with his team of any manager in the 4 major sports.

Aren't we lucky...

Foolish to count on a prospect to be a #2.

I remember the days when we were going to have 5 #1 starters in the rotation. I believe it was Morris, Benes, Benes, Osborne and Chad Hutchinson/Rick Ankiel.

That didn't come together so well for us.

I made the radio today thanks to an online rant about Mozeliak. After reading my comment on the radio's page, they said, "Wow, you can almost see the anger coming out of the keyboard."
LMAO

Which one? KMOX, 101.1 ESPN, 590, 1380? If it's 1380:ROFL

I have to wonder how this thing with Albert wasn't taken care of 3-4 years ago.

You guys hear Holliday on the radio today offered to defer some money to help keep pujols?

Yep, it's on the Post Dispatch's website.

Local ESPN station in CoMo called 1580. I was on their website and posted a comment before going out the door to go run some errands. By the time I had pulled out of the drive, they were reading my comment on the air.

We have to seriously embrace the fact that John Mozeliak isn’t just bad at his job, he’s so epically incompetent that the light from bad would take decades to reach him. The fact that this negotiation has taken so long is a serious indictment on the management and ownership of the team. Mozeliak has done nothing to disprove the fact that he’s a complete stooge. Nothing.

sounds rather pedestrian compared to some of your Mo rants on here lately.:D

At this point I'm just inciting Hamas.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb

Countdown to Albertgeddon
http://www.albertcountdown.com/

it doesn't take a lot these days to make Cardinal fans fear the worse with Albert. Not a lot of trust with our GM. We still don't trust Dewitt, that he may be stingy with his profits.

But, if Alberts deadline is suppose to end distractions, he is frikking nuts. The best player in baseball in his final year of his contract and in that year he has a legitamate shot at a triple crown? Every city they roll into will hit him and his team mates up with questions. Regardless if no one says a damn thing, the questions are going to get asked. Fans are going to say "stuff". It will be a distraction.

Twitter is lighting up right now announcing that Pujols rejected the Cards offer & will announce on Tuesday that talks will cease.

**** me. Mo went on KMOX and said there will be an announcement on Wednesday regarding the contract.

I've got your 10yr/30mil right here Pujols /Jim Hendry.

The Cardinals really ****ed this royal.

I feel really scared now.

Why? Pujols has already left. What is there to be scared about?

Save the money for pitching and build around Holliday.

The Cards have virtually no 1B prospects. I'd feel okay if Gonzo came to the Cards(if he didn't resign with Boston). If he goes to the Cubs, I will cry.

I would too, at that price, and I'm a Cubs fan.

Like I said before, they can afford him but I see him going to either the Mets or Angels.

If the Cards let Pujols walk and the NFL doesn't have a season next year, this will be one of the worst offseasons ever for me. I USED to be a diehard Bulls fan before ownership deliberately destroyed a dynasty. If the Cards pull the same bullshit, I'm done with them too....

http://cdn.tauntr.com/sites/default/...ols-Royals.jpg
Don't worry I think you guys will resign him.

BTW. There is no way the Sox traded for Gonzo to rent him for 1 season. He's a young stud LH power hitter with that short porch in right.

Hey, there's always a chance they could.