Very well then...I accept your apology.

Perhaps it's because he's 9-10 in the playoffs and has gas-piped it on many occasions.

LMAO

I see what you did there....

Unfortunately, I think we have seen the last of Peyton manning on the football field. IMO he is one of the best the NFL has seen on and off the field in quite some time.

You know, I thought you were full of shit. So I poked around the Colts' schedules. I kind of used Thanksgiving as the arbitrary cutoff point. I don't have a clue whether there was snow or not, or even if it was actually cold for the late season games. So, FWIW:

Away games in cold weather cities 2002-2010, with the current divisional setups:

Before Thanksgiving- 19
After Thanksgiving- 9

If you go back through Manning's entire career (1998-2010) though, its:

Before T-day: 34
After T-day: 15

Not sure I buy into the conspiracy, but the (absolutely unofficial) numbers bear you out, I guess.

I'm not sure how much that means considering the majority of the NFL regular season is played before Thanksgiving.

There are generally 11-12 games before Thanksgiving and 4-5 after, so the percentage should be 75%/25% before/after, but it's actually 68/32 and 69/31.... so, no.

ROFL man I would boycott them at that point, and try to get all my fellow jax citizens to do the same. Can't support an organization after that. They can go to LA with that sh*t.

I would say that he's not the greatest ever because of the points you make here. Still, when he's on I've never seen someone make the throws he can make.

These, and, as it's already been stated in this thread, division games are played later in the year so he's more likely to be in warm weather cities, especially once they were out of NE's division.

15 Colts games played in Cold Weather Stadiums after Thanksgiving in 12 years (Mannings career). That's 1.25 per year. Anyone who argues that's not below average compared to the rest of the league is admitting to be full of sh*t. Yeah, i know, he plays in a dome, it's only natural, but still... 15 in 12 years....

Must be nice!

Yeah, well...yeah.

I know! I just want to see the magic weather machine the NFL engineered to make Houston and Jacksonville's weather so pleasant! Is there anything they can't do?

You can say shit without censoring it.

shit shit shit shit

See, all the letters are showing. And I won't get banned for it.

And I wonder how many outdoor games in cold weather cities Atlanta has played in the same timeframe.

15 games in Cold Weather Stadiums after thanksgiving in 12 years. a Colts fan admitting his greatest snow game of all time was against the 4-11 Bills while playing for nothing since they were already locked into their seed. I didn't enjoy admitting Peyton was one of the best ever to play the game,
but you guys gave me some serious Anti Peyton ammunition tonight. the tradeoff was well worth it.

He may not be able to control where he plays and when, but you have to admit his stats would not be nearly as high if he played in Foxboro like Brady or Lambeau like Favre. You and all the other Manning fans know it. He's still great, don't get me wrong. But not nearly as great as others.

4 games after Thanksgiving per year... over time it probably averages out to 2 home and 2 away.... so, 1.25/2 (62.5%) in cold weather stadiums and 0.75/2 (37.5%) in warm weather.

That doesn't seem to support your conspiracy, especially considering he plays in the AFC South, and the NFL tends to play divisional games in December.

Yeah, but he might have won more if he was constantly playing with the home field advantage Brady and Favre had. PLUS, most of Peyton's late season games were meaningless, because they win so many goddamn games. MUST BE A CONSPIRACY.

remember they moved the schedule back a week in 05 or 06 so it;s actually 5 sometimes 6 depending on the year.

and he used to play with the Bills and patriots and jets, before he was conveinently moved in 02. not trying to support a conspiracy just sayin

I forgot to mention.... No one but you said this. Bearcat said that is his most recent, not most memorable or greatest. Also, is Bearcat a Colts fan?

If there's a conspiracy, it's to make it easier for the Colts and the Patriots (the two most consistently great AFC teams with the best QBs) to make the playoffs and make the NFL more money.

Are we really saying that the Colts were moved out of the AFC East because they didn't want Manning to play snow games?

id bet my bottom dollar its more than 15. how many post thanksgiving games did Favre and Brady play outdoors in the same time frame?

Qb's are going to put up bigger numbers and complete more passes under a roof than are outdoors. thats a fact.

Mannings a great QB, but I highly doubt he'd have the same numbers playing in Arrowhead.

not at all, i AM however saying that Peytons playing conditions (which I've admitted ad nauseum are out of his control) have contributed to better stats than if he had played in an Arrowwhead of Soldier Field all of his career.

I suppose im a conspiracy theorist for saying that too....

The Titans number is 4 cold weather stadiums in 6 years... .66/year (away games).

The Pats is 1.42/year over the past several years.

The Pats need to see if they can start playing in the AFC South. :shrug:

No, just procrastinating.

Can you imagine how much better Brady's #'s and wins would be if they did? Holy crap! :drool: The Manning / Brady argument would never exist at all if that were the case.... not because the East has been stellar (its been as medicore as the South ) but because Brady's already fantastic #'s would be even more fantastic with 9 guaranteed indoor games a year like Manning's benefited from.

Nope. You're a conspiracy theorist for saying this...



Or did you forget?

YES!

Since you're bringing this up without providing a better example yourself, it now serves as yours, in addition to his, best choice as Manning's Greatest Snow Game. You've both had three plus hours to come up with something better, yet you haven't, because you can't.

Paranoid, but not wrong... at the end of the day, they've played 15 cold weather stadiums post Thanksgiving in 12 years. TWELVE YEARS!!!!!

Stupid. This hasn't got shit to do with it.

I call Manning a play off choker because it's what he is.

I don't give a **** about his stats. Think about how many times he shit himself in the post-season. He's the reason the Saints have a SB win.

And you'd lose that bet.

Total # of outdoor games in cold weather cities from 1998-2010:

(drum roll...)


7

CONSPIRACY!!!!1

It's even worse if you consider that he had every ref in the league in his ****ing pocket, and his offensive linemen were allowed to hold on every play.

I wonder how many the Chiefs have played.... 20? 30? 40?


15.

Well since I'm not a Colts fan, I don't exactly have all their games on instant recall. Regardless, you keep touting that like anyone in this thread made that claim. No one has. That makes you look ridiculous.

13, actually.

LOAD THAT AMMO!!

Good lord. He still won't give this up.

But, but, but stats are what you measure a QB by. It's not his fault he plays 9-12 indoor games a year, besides weather doesnt affect the way players throw and catch a football. His stats would be just as high if he'd spent the last 12 years playing in Lambeau, maybe higher, cause he's the best of all time with his one ring/ Manning Lovers.

No one's denied it either. That makes talk of Manning being the Best Ever look far more ridiculous.

How many voices are in there? LMAO

I'd like to see all the quotes from people saying these things... oh wait, you're just arguing with yourself at this point. :facepalm:

You're not counting home games, are you?

LMAO Yeah, because there's no way the Saints would've beat any other team from the AFC that year.

Why would I?

at least i include Arrowhead on my list of Cold Weather Stadiums, espeically post Thanksgiving. That's grounds for getting banned from the stadium as far as I'm concerned.

That isn't what he's saying.

because it counts as a cold weather stadium, i figured everyone knew Mannings post thanksgiving home games were played indoors, apparently not.

What is he saying then? The Saints would very likely still have a SB win had they played a different team.

And **** that Brett Favre guy. Because of him the Saints played in a Super Bowl.

They wouldnt have if Minny hadnt turned the ball over 5 times. If they'd have only turned it over twice they'd have beat NO by at least 2 Tds and probably won the SB over the Colts. That team was stacked with talent.

Favre wasn't without fault, but I feel AP's lost fumble inside the 10 before half was what killed their chances that game. Great game though, it definitely lived up to the term, NFC Championship.

JFC, don't go down that road. You can 'if' and 'but' your way to invalidating any team's Super Bowl win if you dig deep enough.

sheesh, you think i was "invalidating" NO's SB with that post? really? they won it fair and sqaure, they're definitely the 09 champs. i Do think Minny was the better team though, by far, but they shot themselves in the foot and deserved to lose.

You gonna argue they wouldnt have won without the turnovers?

That's ESPN Insider Brotha ..... Quite the service eh?

Reggie Wayne took a lot of heat for Peyton Manning's interception, but the fact is, Tracy Porter had Wayne's outside shoulder, and Manning made a bad read when he was rushed.

Because Porter had the outside shoulder, Wayne did what he should do and turned inside.

Manning threw to the outside.

Easy pick 6 with the game in the balance and less than 5 minutes to go.

Yeah, you seemed to be implying that the SB win was handed to them.

And the very same thing could've happened to a different QB.

I'm talking about Manning shitting himself by throwing the pick-6.

Well, sure. But it seems to happen to Manning a lot in the play offs.

Well I'm saying that's a pretty stupid reason to hate Manning.

And it does.

But this isn't just any QB.

This is Peyton Manning, ostensibly the greatest QB ever, and yet a QB who fails to make big plays in the biggest moments, consistently.

I don't hate him. I just think he's a playoff choker.

Any QB could choke the game killing pick-6 in a Super Bowl, that's true. But Manning was the one who managed to actually do it.

Congrats to him for choking horrendously in the big game. If that had been the first time he'd crapped out in the playoffs, he wouldn't have already had the label of choker before finally winning his gift SB.

9-10

Well I've certainly never labeled him as the best QB ever, but I'd have given my left nut to have that playoff choker on my team. I think there's a lot of irrational hate towards him from Chiefs fans because he's beaten us so many times.

by saying Minny would've killed them without the turnovers in the PREVIOUS game?

You know what the Chiefs' QB records are in the playoffs in the same time frame?

0-3

That makes that 9-10 looked pretty ****ing attractive.

Well yeah, they had to win that game to get to the Super Bowl.

One has nothing to do with the other. Manning's a choker in the playoffs, regardless of the Chiefs recent playoff record.

It's not irrational to hate someone that beats the Chiefs so many times. it's irrational to NOT hate him.

I agree I'd take him over Cassel for sure though, can't argue that.

I'd say the greatest thing about Peyton Manning is his set of mental skills. He can get flustered into a bad throw here and there but it rarely happens. He's usually right on the money and he's deadly accurate in calling his audibles. It's like having an OC play the QB position. I wouldn't say he's the greatest Quarterback ever. There have been too many great ones. But he's in that category and deserves to looked at as one of the best ever.

No, one does have something to do with the other. It's pretty ****ing comical to watch Chiefs fans call out someone for being a playoff choker when their team can't even get to the playoffs to begin with. When you make the playoffs every damn year, you're going to lose playoff games.

This sums him up as a Quarterback almost perfectly.

I'm still going to point out he's never played in a memorable snow game and has only had to play a total of 15 post thanksgiving cold weather stadiums in 13 years to all his fans constantly now though. LMAO

Why is this snow game thing the measuring stick for you? There really aren't that many games playing during snowstorms each year. How many memorable snow games did Joe Montana play in?

Jesus Christ. If there was a Colts fan on this board, I'm sure they could refute that, but let's just say he hasn't. What a stupid ****ing measure of greatness. As I said before, most of his December games are unimportant because they win so many ****ing regular season games. That's not any kind of knock on Manning. It's just an arbitrary point you've chosen to hang your hat on because you've been owned in this thread.

Im old school in my thinking and believe football is an outdoor game and should be played outdoors. It's far from a measuring stick, just a curiousity. Although I believe Mannings #'s are much better from the benefit of the dome. As will be all dome Qb's. It's out of their control sure, but I believe it's a curb that should be taken into consideration at least slightly when grading the All Time Greats and having the Best Ever Talks. It IS an advantage over an entire career, not in wins, no, but in numbers for sure.

In fact you could argue it's a disadvantage for wins since when he does have to travel to cold weather during the playoffs, he doesn't have the experience of a Brady or Favre.

Again, this has nothing to do with Manning being a playoff choker. He's 9-10. Take a look at where his winning percentage puts him among the game's elite QBs. He's a choking dog, and I'm not a Chiefs fan.

I was just kidding around, it's a fun new stat for me to throw into the Manning argument when it comes up, that's all.

What makes it so much is how much it pisses off the Manning Lickers like you who Freak Out and hit the ceiling just by saying it IN THE SAME POST I admit he's great. try getting a sense of humor, I'm a Chiefs fan and I like putting down Peyton, what's the big deal?

Well you're entitled to your opinion, but if that's how you feel don't ever let me catch you dropping the "bad calls are part of football and you have to play through them" line that I hear so often. And I know you're not a Chiefs fan, but the majority of those who are placing that label on him are.