and nevermind Elway's got two Super Bowl rings and Cassel has not a playoff win.

I'm sorry you can't see Cassel is a lousy QB.

Doesn't take a genious to figure that out.

He's better than Gabbert at the moment, along with Ponder. Arguably better than Kolb. I hate Matt Cassel, but if you think Gabbert last year was better than Matt, you're a ****ing moron. Gabbert was horrible.

Cassel is the worst starter in the NFL. How is this a debate? Do you folks watch the games?

As far as future/potential goes, yes, I would rather have Gabbert, Ponder, and maybe Kolb than Cassel. Not for 60/5yrs though. Cassel is definitely in the bottom 4 and tied IMO with Kolb for the #3 worst spot.

He just said worst in the NFL, but anyway, it's why I continued talking about starters. There are several interchangeable starters that, ideally, would be backups. I think you could and would get just as frustrated at Sanchez, Gabbert, Moore, Flynn, Kolb, and even Freeman, Fitzpatrick, Palmer, Ponder and Hasselbeck at times. You just don't see those QBs make their mistakes, and when you do, you don't care, and don't remember because you're not as invested. Cassel has moments of being good, but more of being below average like any number of QBs. I'd like him as a back up, not a starter.

Did you watch the abortion of games Gabbert produced last year?

If you would have read what I said, you would be crystal clear on my stance. This always turns out, that just because somebody doesn't see all doom and gloom, they must love Cassel...and once, again it's a false conclusion.

He's in the 20's or lower as starting QB's in the league, but that doesn't keep, most, including you, from throwing complete horse shit into the equation based on OPINION and saying such crap, like he's the worst QB in the league. He isn't, no matter how many want it to be so. The facts bare that out. FACTS, not opinion, FACTS.

See the difference?

He was also a rookie on a horrible team. Matt Cassel would have looked worse in JAX than he looks here.

Like Cassel 3:16?

Why does anybody think Fitzpatrick is better than Cassel?

Fitzpatrick is a piece of shit. His release is almost as slow as Tebow's. Cassel is legitimately a far more accurate QB.

He's the worst STARTING Qb.

Yes, when I saw him he sucked.

He was a rookie with nobody to throw to. Cassel was horrible in his 3rd year here, 6th or 7th in the NFL throwing at Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston etc.

In your OPINION, not in reality, where some of us live.

I'd have to give Fitz the edge.

Why? What does he do that Cassel can't? Checkdown like a reerun? Through a wild incompletion out of desperation when he still has a few seconds to set his feet and deliver a throw? Cassel can do those things, too.

Watch Fitz's mechanics. They are crap. Dog crap. Cassel has a legitimate edge over him in that department.

Possible. Definitely not disputing that Gabbert was on a poor team, but they had a healthy MJD and a top 10 defense throughout the year, playing an arguably weaker division than ours. He threw for under 100yds in 4 games, Cassel in only one. He also only completed 60% in 1 game.

What are we basing a QBs merit on, stats or wins? Either way Cassel is right there with several QBs. If you just think he can't throw and all you can remember are the bad throws, thats selective. You can put together a lowlight reel to make Cassel look like the worst QB to ever play the game, or you can put a reel together that makes him look awesome. Yes, he has more bad plays than good, that's why he shouldn't start, like several QBs.

I feel I need to say this almost every post. I don't want Cassel to be our starter. I'd be happy with him as our back up.

Gabbert did look like hammered shit last year, had forgotten about him.

Honestly, I think he could be a good mentor/teammate to Ricky as a backup. Minus teaching him how to make checks, line calls, audibles, throw deep passes well, how to execute a screen and read defenses.

I don't think you can quantify that. He's not a top 20 starter. He's lumped in with 10 or so QBs that are better suited to be back ups.

My opinion is more inline with the facts.

In a season where they played a very easy schedule, Matt Cassel averaged 207 yards per game with the #1 rushing attack.

**** him.

ABC

Have you seen Rivers' Mechanics?

Still better than Gabbert playing against the Colts and Titans. Granted, Ponder played in a tough division, and Kolb had to play Seattle(good d) and 49ers (ungodly D). However, Cassel still looked better than both the majority of the season.

LMAO yup. Him and Osweiler have the exact same throwing motion. Where the **** do you learn to throw like that?

Here are more facts. They won 10 games (even with an easy schedule) and Cassel threw 27 TDs and only 7 picks. Those are numbers that get you more chances, no matter who you're playing. Easy schedule or not you're still playing NFL teams, it's not like there were some D II A teams on the schedule. There are QBs that can't do that even against bad teams.

Again, wish Cassel was the backup.

I'd take Gabbert because he's 6 yrs younger. Ponder is still very young, too.

A ton of potential upside there.

Come on, man. 207 YPG is HORRIBLE when you're running the ball like JC was.

Going down the list I came up with these teams that are in a worse situation. Realistically the list should start and end with Cassel because that is all Pioli is interested in.

Browns: Weeden, McCoy
Jaguars: Gabbert, Henne

That's it. Third from the bottom. I thought of Fitz as well, but the Bills beat the snikey's out of the Chiefs last year and just barely beat them the year before when Matt was in the Pro Bowl *

I'm not saying I wouldn't take Gabbert, but he was not better than Matt last year. Matt's 1st year here is pretty similar to Gabberts last year, imo.

ya, dave. ppl don't understand any pollock could be a decent qb when JC is a ****ing terror to defenses. you could see the fear in DC's by about game 10 that year. the seattle game was a great example of a DC who refused to play the pass and got burned. cassel should have had several games like this, but he's so slow as a ball handler, he is damn near done by the time he sets his feet.

In the year Chris Johnson ran for 2000 yards Vince Young started 9 games and threw for 156 ypg, kerry Collins started 6 and had 175 ypg. Don't know why you think having a top rushing attack means there should be more passing yards per game.

I got off-track. I meant QBs that I would TAKE over Cassel.

There isn't ONE starting QB that I would not take over Cassel.

I've said this many times: We've seen what Matt can do. Its not working. Time to move on.

Sure, any other bottom feeding QB around the league may not be any better than Matt, but I just sick of him.

LMAO Because Young and Collins suck.

I think everyone is sick of him, minus Pioli. Hopefully Ricky turns into Tom 2.0 and does work this year. He already has the same hair and #.

They're good back ups like Cassel could be.

Well, there's that.

I base it on watching the game. Stats lie, as do wins. When I watch him play he sucks the dogs ass.

exactly what i tried to tell guys in the QBotF thread. :thumb:

Eyes lie more than stats. Cassel has looked bad and good at times. I've watched all but a few QBs have games that would get the same reaction out of you.

He Sucks! I promise, if Fitzpatrick, or Moore, or Sanchez were our QB, you'd want them replaced too.

We want the same thing, to have a different QB. I just hate it when people think the grass is greener with these bottom of the pack QBs.

Cassel is the bottom, so either one is an upgrade to me.

They are all the bottom, those 7 or so QBs. Interchangeable mediocre QBs.

None of them

/LAChieffan

like i said, to me Cassel would be on the bottom of that shit list.

Who cares. They're all borderline backups.

Here's a way I would put the list.

These are the teams that I think will replace or want to replace their starting QB if they have a bad season:

KC
Jets
Jax-Although, Gabbert might get another year just because of where he was taken.
Miami
TB-I think Freeman has to show something this year
AZ
SF
I'd say Seattle and Oakland, but Flynn is new, and Oakland gave up so much I think they'd stay put.
Buf
Clev, if it's Mccoy.

misread you post man, my bad.

Fitzpatrick has some pocket awareness and the ability to make reads.

Rules question: when you say "specific to 2012" in the opening post, does that mean we're looking only at the 2012 season and not taking into account things like age and potential, or are we supposed to look past the 2012 season as well?

Fitzpatrick is shit, a different color turd, a bit less smelly, but we'd hate him here too.

He has been stuck with a pretty bad supporting cast in Buffalo.

I think he'd be a Trent Green level QB in KC.

Agreed

Well lets all go on record then...

If you truly think Ass-el is in bottom 7 (bottom 20-25%) in 2012, his stats should say so.

I personally think he will be in the top 33.3%

another thing i noticed about Fitz last season, if he threw a couple pics early in a game he could put it behind him and finish the game strong.

He's a more athletic version of Cassel, and a less athletic version of Tebow.

He's basically what you would get if Tebow and Cassel had a love child.

:facepalm:

Agree to disagree. I want him no where near KC and that contract was an abortion for Buffalo.

FYP

Stats can be misleading. Just like Orton's 1 TD/2 INT stat with the Chiefs. That one is every bit as misleading as Cassels 27/7 stat.

It is a given if we can run the ball 35 or so times a game for nearly a couple of hundred yards, Cassel is going to win some games. Name me a QB who isn't going to win given that situation.

However, if we can only run it 15 to 20 times a game and can't get the ground game going, we are ****ed.

Cassel 3:16

if Romeo doesn't pull Cassel i'll say he finishes somewhere between 26th-30th best QB in the league.

I'll enjoy mocking you all season.

Do you realize the top .3% would mean he is the 1st or 2nd best QB in the league?

Or are your math skills about equal to your posting skills?

In fact, here is the 2010 season in review...

21-14 Win vs San Diego... 26 carries for 135.
16-14 Win vs Cleveland... 39 carries for 140.
31-10 Win vs San Fran... 39 carries for 207.
BYE
9-19 Loss vs Indianapolis... 27 carries for 113. One of the 3:16 games
35-38 Loss vs Texans... 38 carries for 228. (One of his 6 losses with more carries than passing attempts)
42-20 Win vs Jacksonville... 42 carries for 236.
13-10 Win vs Bills... 45 carries for 274.
20-23 Loss vs Raiders... 34 carries for 104. One of his 3:16 losses
29-49 Loss vs Denver... 22 carries for 51. One of his 3:16 losses. Posted big stats once team was down 35-0. (Misleading stat game. :shrug:)
31-13 Win vs Arizona... 29 carries for 159.
42-24 Win vs Seattle... 48 carries for 270.
10-6 Win vs Denver... 39 carries for 185.
0-31 Loss vs San Diego... Croyle's game
27-13 Win vs St. Louis... 42 carries for 210.
34-14 Win vs Tennessee... 40 carries for 152.
10-31 Loss vs Oakland... 29 carries for 115. A 3:16 game
7-30 Loss vs Ravens... 19 for 108. (One of his 6 losses with more carries than passing attempts)


EDIT: In the 10 wins... and average of 39 carries for 197 yards a game. Any QB in the league can win games with those numbers, not just Cassel.

I think Matt has a significantly worse season than
Brady
Stanzi
Rodgers
Brees
Manning
Manning
Rapeburger
Romo
Rivers
Vick
Flacco
Schaub
Locker
Cutler
Stafford
Ryan
Newton
Dalton

I think he has similar seasons to
Sanchez
Fitzpatrick
RG3
Luck
Bradford
Smith
Flynn
Freeman
Palmer
Moore
Hasselback

I think he outplays
Gabbert
Kolb/Skelton
Weeden
Ponder

yeah i know what .3% is dumbass.

we shall see.
i can mock as well yanno.

i think the top QB List might look something like this:

1 Brady
2 Rodgers
3 Brees
4 P Manning
5 Rothlisberger
6 E Manning
7 Rivers
8 Vick
9 Flacco
10 Schaub
11 Romo
12 Cutler
13 Stafford
14 Ryan
15 Newton
16 Dalton
17 Sanchez
18 Fitzpatrick
19 RG3
20 Luck
21 Bradford
22 Flynn
23 Freeman
24 Palmer
25 Moore
26 Cassel

<a href='http://gifsforum.com/listofgifs/gallery/scared'><img src='http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/scared/grand/baby-scared-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-825.gif' alt='baby scared gif'></a>

Castle looks like he's been working out.

Peyton is too high right now. We dont know what he's lost.

agreed
but even if he's lost some he's still gonna be better than two thirds of the QB's starting right now.

Based off what? Whe he had a dominate running game he was pretty good, ala Cassel in 2010, no run game, suckage.

There is no difference in the 2.

Top third? Are you mad?

He would have to be in the top eleven, and i guarantee you he isn't better than:

1 Brady
2 Rodgers
3 Brees
4 P Manning
5 Rothlisberger
6 E Manning
7 Rivers
8 Vick
9 Flacco
10 Schaub
11 Romo
12 Cutler
13 Stafford
14 Ryan
15 Newton
16 Dalton

Those are the guarantees. Not a ****ing chance.

From 17 down there is a ton of speculation and hope. Dalton could also have a major relapse like Matt Ryan who hasn't done much since his rookie year.

IMO, Stafford is too high. He is a top 10 guy in the league.

All that would have to happen is a few things for you to be wrong:

1)peyton could easily not have a good season
2)cassel's stats could easily be better than Dalton, Cutler, Flacco, Eli
3) there's other guys who could just have a bad season....

Its not impossible....

Cassel's stats could be better than a guy who threw for 5,000 yards? ROFL

WOW LMAO

You mean too low? :)