Whistleblowing is an enormous problem in the military. And some witness some major atrocities. Why would they be afraid? Are we calling them cowards? If a private caught a captain raping a villager eould you say its an easy decision to beat the shit out of him?

Or do we acknowledge that there are some people so powerful they are hard to take down. Do we acknowledge there are some "codes" that are difficult to break? To work in athletics, there is an unwritten code that you have a high tolerance for letting shit slide. And there is an unwritten code that you don't jeopardize the team unless your coach says so.

WTF man? No, we don't acknowledge any of those ridiculous things. Let's acknowledge that several young boys were forcibly ****ed in the ass by someone they trusted. That's really all that's necessary. We don't need any stories you think are relevant to assess this individual situation. Our society must protect our children from predatory monsters. That's more important than any of that other shit you listed. Lots of people failed to do that in this case, and they needed to be held responsible. It's that simple. Whistleblowing issues in other areas don't fit into the conversation.

Unwritten codes don't apply when kids are being hurt in ways that damage them for life. It's baffling that you can't see the difference.

This idea of McQueary being scared to bring down a superior seems moot in light of his testimony.

He fully admits that he should have done more the night he saw Sandusky in the shower. He says he saw them in the shower through the reflection in a mirror, slammed his locker shut so they would hear it, and then looked in the shower and saw they had stopped. Then he left. But he feels he put a stop to it.

He told Paterno. Then he told the Penn State higher-ups, one of whom was in charge of the campus police, which McQueary says he took as having reported what he saw to the authorities.

Then... nothing. Everyone can argue about what they would have done had they walked in on something like the shower situation, but like Paterno, where McQueary really fails is after the fact. Personally, if I reported that I saw someone ****ing a kid, and that guy was still out on the street, I think that after a week... or a month... or six months... or a year... I might have followed-up on it with the people I told. Or I might have told someone else.

McQueary didn't do anything for 10 years, except apparently walk out of the room anytime Sandusky came in. The defense lawyer pressed him on why he didn't do anything more. McQueary didn't talk about being afraid. He rejected the notion that he was worried about the university firing him.

What he did say is that he loved Penn State. Even though Sandusky was still around the program, McQueary loved his job too much to leave in protest. So if you wanted to attach a specific reason to his failure to follow up, it was probably more out of his reverence for the great JoePa and the mighty Nittany Lions, not out of fear of "breaking codes" or any of that. He had his dream job and didn't want to rock the boat too much.

Then when he was asked about his departure from Penn State and his whistleblower lawsuit, he said "I didn't do anything wrong to lose that job".

Perhaps he intended his answer to apply simply to his job duties, and wasn't commenting on the larger Sandusky issue. But if you're in a position with some degree of authority at a university, you witness a sexual assault right there on school property, and you don't do everything you can to get to get it sorted out, then you've failed your station in my view. No parent is going to say "Sure, I trust Mike McQueary to do everything possible to protect my son or daughter" after this, so how would he justify his continued employment at a school of all places? Because he can read defenses?

Point being, he didn't come off like a guy who wanted to do more, but was just too scared to act.

It's a shame in some respects because it is true that McQueary did more than everyone else around Penn State. If the people in charge had done something after he told them, McQueary would be talked about like one of the heroes in this story. On the other hand, if he'd done absolutely nothing, little would have changed and McQueary wouldn't be attached to the story at all. He'd still be at Penn State with his reputation fully intact.

But it's a good lesson to learn. There are no A's for effort, no shiny gold star for being the one who tries the hardest. McQueary did something, but he didn't do enough. He surely knew he didn't do enough. Yet that knowledge didn't spur him into any further action. And who knows how many kids Sandusky went onto rape after that?

Well said.

This is about as good of an account as I've seen, and thanks for the thought that went into it. Like I said, he's not a hero. But again, I stand by my example. If you're a private witnessing a captain raping a girl, it's a little more complicated to just beat the shit out of a ranking officer. I think they'd have to think about reporting it, knowing the negative backlash that would soon follow for a guy who dared to do the right thing. Like I said, in the military, whistle blowing is a very, very, very big problem. And it's not because they're cowards. It's not because they're terrible people. It's because a system with such a power imbalance makes it very difficult for a person with no power to do much of anything without repercussion. Couple that with McQueary having a split second to make a decision in that locker room, likely in shock and stunned by what he saw. He made a bad decision in a panic.

He should have done more. But research shows that over 90% of whistleblowers, I believe, do not come forward. He told a legendary coach and powerful guy that his best friend and his ranking "officer" was a pedophile. He told the VP, the AD, the campus police. He even went on the stand and took down the University, even if that ultimately doomed his career at Penn State. It wasn't nearly enough. It could have and should have been more. I just think people are talking unrealistically when they try to dream up scenarios of how they would have acted in the same situation. Again, there is droves of psychological evidence to suggest that most people in this spur-of-the-moment situation would likely NOT make a particularly good decision.

Chiefzilla should just write a book about all of his stupid ****ing opinions so people could laugh.

Speaking of dreaming up scenarios, I like how you just laid out a very elaborate military example trying to bring some other form of authoritative semblance into the situation. But somehow, it lacks logical relation to an old guy raping little boys that he brought into his own children's charity program.

Split second decision? Yeah... like the world was really hanging by a thread waiting for his next move as he decided what to do after he personally witnessed a 60 year old guy butt raping a little boy. What on Earth would make you describe that as a "Split second decision"? Name one thing that put the pressure of time on his decision there. He waited years and years to say anything. Split second LOL....

I've said before that I think zilla has gone on a dunk rampage.

Or just flipped his lid.

No split second decision.
Posted via Mobile Device

My understanding is that 60% of the time, they come forward every time.

All these examples you're providing, a private seeing a general rape a girl and such things, are all valid in their own context. They just don't apply to Mike McQueary.

McQueary does not come off like a guy who's troubled by his inaction over the last decade. Nothing he has said suggests that he wanted to come forward and do more, but was too intimidated by the system -- which is how you continue to portray him.

I think he thinks he did enough. Like various others connected to this situation, his feelings seemed to be "Well, I did my part. I told them what I know. It's out of my hands now." He thinks he should still be coaching at Penn State. Given that, it's not a leap to suggest that he thinks JoePa should have been allowed to stay too.

You're projecting a defense that doesn't apply to him.

There could be some truth to that. But you're also assuming he wasn't contrite or that he wasn't intimidated by the system. We have to remember that I doubt he has any interest in doing any more damage to Penn State than is already being done. Or in being the guy that brings them the death penalty. You can fault him for that if you want (not turning on your school).

But in the end, he did provide the testimony that sunk Sandusky and will sink Penn State. Twice. And he did provide detailed information to the right authorities who failed to act. He didn't do enough, but he did something, which is a lot more than you can say for everybody involved.

Again, it's not just McQueary. There are lot of people who seem to have kept their mouth shut and it will be interesting to see how far that paper trail goes. College football programs are awfully good at secrets. And there's probably a good reason for that -- because nobody wants to be the one who gets caught spilling the beans.

Rep

Here is the deal - McQueary did more than anyone else, yes. But he did not do what he should have. That does not make him a hero as some would paint him to be. He was a member of a cult who had good instincts but, did not act upon them the way he should have.

We can all say at one point or another in our lives that we should have done more. However this was not a situation where doing less was an option. He made it one, and therefore should not be heralded as a hero. PERIOD.

You're right, I am. But I'm assuming it based on McQueary's own statements.

You're assuming the opposite based on... nothing, as far as I can tell.

Nope, never said he was a hero. But he's not the villain everyone claims he is.

Betting tonight he got serenaded with 'We will, we will, rape you'.

His next relationship...

http://youtu.be/QC0V6lf-KVI

YES HE ****ING MOST CERTAINLY IS.

ANYONE THAT KNEW THIS GUY WAS ****ING LITTLE KIDS AND LET HIM CONTINUE TO DO IT IS A VILLAN.

i dont give a **** who he told about it obviously it didnt go anywhere and he still knew he SAW this ****er screwing a little kid.

should have done more, he is partly responsible for every kid that got molested by this guy from that point on.

HE LET IT CONTINUE.

oh and **** you, douchebag.

When you tell three of your bosses and they not only sit on it but actively cover it up its not exactly easy. While his bosses danced around the story, made up stories to cover their ass, he directly stated the truth even if it damaged the university. Neither of those things are easy.

He didn't do enough. But apart from going direct to the cops he did everything a reasonable person should be expected to do. You can criticize him for not going above and beyond. But the fact is that the inaction is blamed on Paterno, spanier and curley. You are asking a subordinate to go over the heads of bosses three levels higher than him.

Bullcrap. I would tell them to do something before I did. You want to fire me? Just try it.

Exactly...after a week my next statement...in writing.... would be that I would have to approach the national media about what I saw. This isn't going away.

Sincerely,

GB

You can't say that without factoring in how powerful Paterno is. How protective the administration is about protecting secrecy. And how many Penn state fans will flood your phone and mailbox with death threats. Or factoring in that tattling on your boss is never easy to do... Period.

Again, its easy to stand on the sidelines and act like these decisions are easy.

NO HE DID NOT! He caught the sick son of a b!tch in the act and walked away from it. That falls waaaaaaaaaaaay below the actions of a reasonable person.

JFC, could you be any more stupid?

Just what I was thinking. There's a documented history, you know, for a fact, that it is still happening, but you decide to just drop it?

Worst case scenario, you lose your job and have to find another. What do you think the worst case scenario is for the child?

I don't think your considering how much your life will change if you tattle on a school and legendary head coach. Especially if it sinks Penn state.
Look at Steve bartman. Look at fanatics who rallied aaround joe pa. Look at fanatics who sent death threats to mcqueary for having the "audacity" to speak up.

If you had to choose, would you choose receiving death threats or living with the fact that you didn't do what you could have to stop a serial child molester?

Chiefzilla,

I appreciate your position and insight on this topic. In the fight, flight or freeze scenario McQueary had thrust upon him I would likely have frozen like he did. I am not proud of it, but people are wired differently I suppose. But BigRock's argument is absolutely true. If I did nothing after ten years I would expect nothing but scorn. I would hate myself as McQueary does. Ultimately, tho, I would know I deserve it.

He didn't do "nothing".

THAT IS WHAT YOU DO! GO TO THE ****ING COPS.

again he is partly responsible for every molestation incident from that point on IMO

He didn't do what he could have. I'll even go back and change my post for you.

and that would not be " going above and beyond"

that would be doing what you are supposed to do. (well actually IMO he should have beat that ****er half to death when he saw it going on)

it should be an easy decision to call the ****ing police.

it's not a "university matter" at that point it's a call the ****ing cops right away matter.

bug bug bug...


he didnt do ANYTHING that actually helped keep little kids SAFE

A lot of other people didn't either. I'm not going to try to whitewash the guy but I don't understand why he is the focus of so much of the anger. There was plenty of fail from all around.

As many others didn't as well.

when he witnessed it first hand he had the power to put an end to it all...


he had the best shot IMO.

If they conduct themselves that way...WTH would I ever want to work there with those people. I would be just like them...and I'd rather be able to look at myself in the mirror. While what you say is a very real consequence, my personal principles don't allow me to care about that, because I'll get another job if I am a good coach. If I am a bad coach...I should do it anyway and get another career. Doing the right thing isn't really that hard even if you must be couragous

I would hope I'd choose the former. But people here oversimplify how easy that is. Steve bartmans life was a living hell and I imagine mcquearys would have been. Its a llose lose situation. If not for joe pa and the other scumbags, mcqueary should never have been put in that position.

nothing courageous about doing the RIGHT THING HERE.

why do you keep pulling shit out that is in NO WAY = to molestation.

bartman ****ed up a GAME. this ****er RUINED ACTUAL LIVES>


mcqeary probably would have had some people mad at him, MORE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE LIKELY APPLAUDED HIM. and he most likely would NOT have had ANY issue getting a job as a recruiter.


anyone that could take down that regime would be someone people would have trusted to send their kids to college with, parents would know he had the children's best in mind.

Because there is a difference between making a bad decision deliberately and making a bad decision in a snap decision. Mcqueary said he didn't act, out of embarrassment. That he was seeing something he shouldn't have seen and felt guilty tor having seen it. That may sound unreasonable but its really not. When you are shocked by things you see you often react in weird way. We can't ignore thqt seeing that kind of thing would put you in a fuzzy mental state. I think we are being unrealistic if we tthink every one of us with a conscience would immediately react appropriately oor reasonably. Especially if we are talking about someone you know.

zilla, please just STFU....

...you've said the same thing at least one hundred times, and it's all still nothing more than unmitigated BS.

That is totally and utterly unrealistic.

There was a riot in the streets over firing joe pa. Mcqueary got death threats from psu fans and it would have been a lot worse if he would have went straight to the cops.

And the idea that he could still coach is laughable. You think big football programs don't cover up rapes and assaults and illegal transactions on a regular basis?

It would not bbe easy being known as the guy who took ddown sandusky. Even worse to take ddown joe pa. God help a guy who sinks a big football program like Penn state.

everything i have said is 100 times more realistic than whatever world you are living in.

and again with the "snap decision" bullshit.


that happened YEARS ago. he had PLENTY of time to think about it and make the right decision.


you are a ****ing idiot.

he ****ing felt guilty because he knew he LET IT CONTINUE.

fuzzy mental state? goddamn you are ****ing stupid.

Yes, you and big rock are looking at it rationally rather than emotionally. I cant answer that. And he does deserve his share of criticism because he didnt do enough. The problem is when tough guys on the sideline want to trivialize how easy these decisions are. These are decisions that will forever change your life. The problem is, it shouldn't have to be that way. If paterno curley and Schultz did their jobs the decision could have been real easy. If the NCAA wasn't so crooked, programs to keep secrets, mcqueary probably would have had no reservation blowing the whistle. Its a systematic problem.

Getting death threats and people actually following through on it are two different things.

You think programs cover up rapes on a regular basis? You are the king of ****ing blanket statements. You pull out completely bullshit statistics in this thread and then make a claim like this? Laughable. Completely ****ing laughable.

No one gives a shit about taking down Sandusky. If the whistle was blown on this shit back in the early 2000s, it would not have been even close to the circus it became last year because people in authority positions actually would have done their job as mandated reporters.

Chiefzilla with quite possibly the worst analogy I've ever read in my entire life. Steve Bartman affected a baseball game. Jerry Sandusky ruined the lifes of tens of people. Probably more.

tough guys on the sideline?

no, you ****ing moron, this is about what a normal person would do sfter seeing a CHILD BEING MOLESTED BY AN ADULT.

call the cops.

easy decision, no trivialization there. only person trivializing anything here is you.

not reporting a molestation to the COPS COPS, when you personally SEE IT is ****ing wrong.

i cant believe ANYONE could try to rationalize it.

he let it go on for YEARS. just stood by and basically WATCHED.

you know what? he affected the lives of the kids, their parents, their future children, their future spouses...

Absolutely.

I can say that with full knowledge of all of those things. Protection of innocence should be every man's first job, if he wants to call himself a man. There are things more important than a job.

i honestly can not believe that there is ANYONE taking up for anyone involved in this situation, especially the GUY WHO HAD EVERY chance for 10 years to stop it

The whistle was blown. Once the authorities didn't act on it it became the job of a 28 year old to go above the heads of a legendary head coach and the administration. In front of, by the way, a maniacally fanatical fan base. If joe pa and company acted right away, this wouldn't have been a circus. Instead there is email evidence to show that they deliberately covered it up.

And you are naive if you don't think the only way for big NCAA programs to survive is to do shady shit and keep it secret. You are naive if you don't think pro and NCAA programs won't actively keep rapes, assaults, etc..quiet if that meant avoiding suspension. You can't coach in a big program if you insist on following the rules.

btw...if he did report that to ESPN and they tried to fire him....they get their asses sued and lose on perception alone.

me too.

you cant see something like that and just let it go, and then spending 10 years seeing the kid ****er with more kids.

NO IT WASNT BLOWN, OBVIOUSLY, the guy wasnt arrested and still had children in his care.

CALL THE POLICE, obviously no one else did too much. it was his responsibility

I'd coach junior high football the rest of my life rather than be covered in the greasy slime that university has all over it, and will have until the end of time.

Wait a minute here. You said rapes. I don't think schools cover up rapes in today's society. No ****ing chance.

Now you change the criteria to shady shit.

And no, the whistle was not blown. Actual cops did not investigate this. It's not going over someone's head if there's a severe law broken. It's not an issue of playing time where he goes straight to the AD instead of talking to Joe.

You are just full of general and blanket statements that you are trying to pass off as facts.

and yeah the only thing you have said correctly "it became the job of a 28 year old"

it did and he didnt do it.

**** him right along with you. at this point you should both be locked in the same cell with sandusky wearing school outfits...

Way to misinterpret.

I am talking about the way fanatical fans will turn your life into a living hell if you turn on them. Bartman went into hiding. He changed his identity. And before that, he was harassed, threatened, all kinds of horrible things i wouldn't wish on anyone. That absolutely would have happened to mcqueary too.

i would take the chance to be without a job and homeless for the rest of my life and feel good about it.

and again you are an idiot.

once it all came out as truth more people would applaud him.


why? because NO ONE likes a child molester, thats why they do so well in prison

He told the head of Penn state police which is curley.

And shady shit means they will trivialize murders assaults rapes etc if it means keeping a coach or player off the ssuspension list. If they know about it, sorry, hard to believe they would report it. I don't think any of that should be hard to believe.

You obviously have been lliving in a cave then because even though it was obvious sandusky was guilty, Penn state fans still rioted over joe ppas firing and sent mcqueary death threats. It would have been a hell of a lot worse if mcqueary did iit right away.

Fans are often emotionally unrational. Again, why would that be hard to register?

you call the COPS, and if you do tell someone else and nothing happens you tell someone else.

he had 10 years to help those CHILDREN out.

Asking a 28 year old to go over the head of a legendary head coach and a massive football institution isn't as easy as you want to claim it is from the sidelines.

let me be CLEAR HERE: I DONT GIVE A ****.

excuses are just that. excuses.

has anyone been killed over this? nope.

who cares what THE FANS THINK? thinnk about those CHILDREN being abused.

You're right moron. Schools cover up murders. Who are you Dave Bliss?

Because when you have to go into hiding and fear for your life and throw your entire career away and change your identity, etc... Those ate things you accept for doing tthe right thing. From the sidelines I would rather that them a guilty conscience. But I'm not ggoing to trivialize that irrational people make easy decisions difficult.

You're embarrassing yourself. I shudder to think there are many people like you who would stand by and let this happen.

It is if you are talking about child molestation. That is a clear cut no thought required decision.

And anyone who thinks otherwise needs to be removed from the gene pool.

Yeah, right. People are going to kill you for outing a pedophile. LMAO What a dope.

McQueary did what he did to protect Penn State, nothing more or less.

They rioted in favor of Paterno for protecting one.
They sent death threats to mcqueary for implicating one.

You can't act like sports fans are rational.

Cover up was a bad word. My mistake. Sweep under a rug? You bet.

Any public person gets death threats. That excuse doesn't fly.

It is frightening that there are just people walking around out there that think like this. Makes me never want to have kids.

OK, here's an analogy. I'm trying to make it in entertainment, an industry famous for being about "who you know" and so on. If I walked in on Steven Spielberg and Harvey Weinstein tag teaming a 10 year old, I would be on the phone to the police so fast they'd still have their pants around their ankles when the cuffs went on. I would rather be reduced to flipping burgers for life than preserve my career at the expense of children.

That's not bragging. That's what any decent human being would do. It is NOT above and beyond. It is the bare ****ing minimum. I cannot believe the behavior some people will make excuses for.