The question is who can we get that can play at his level in the next 2 years?

We won't attract a high priced FA with Casshole.

Will. Not. Happen.

Once again: KC will have to overpay to get talent that will sign for less elsewhere. Until we've won a SB it's going to stay that way...

Not really.

It's like Jones said. They paid "retail".

The problem is the Chiefs only buy bargains, and they've conditioned the fans to think its the only way.

Exactly. He needs to be in the next tier down. I agree with the Roddy White/Vincent Jackson deals. I would say no more than $10 million a season.

Now if I were Bowe, I would want the hell out of KC if they aren't providing me a better QB. So I don't blame him if he eventually forces himself out of KC.

But I would be pissed as hell at Pioli for not keeping Bowe or Carr and not changing the QB situation to want him to stay and bring a championship to KC.

I don't know why people focus on the big number given out by agents - 8 years 130 million. That's monopoly money. The entire contract is never going to be realized by anyone. You look at the guaranteed money in the first three years. After that, everything is renegotiated/restructured.

Johnson - 50 mil guaranteed.
Fitz - 42 - 50 guaranteed.
Jackson - 37 mil first three years.
Johnson - 24 mil first three years.

Laughing at you Internet twerps who KNOW that Poe is a piece of garbage and a bust already. You'll probably own jerseys eventually.

We have a first round Qb now.

That's not exactly true. The Chiefs do look for signing FA that are under the radar but that can get comparable production to higher profile FA. The Chiefs didn't resign their own players to bargain deals, but no one really cares or notices when you resign your own players.

Quick, name a top-flight NFL receiver who's won a Super Bowl who isn't named Jerry Rice (who was surrounded by other all-world talent like some guys named Montana and Clark and others).

Point being, "stud WR" is an overrated stat. And "overpaid stud WR" is even worse. One WR does not make a team. And paying out the ass for said WR just means you get to watch a very expensive guy run down the field and not get the ball.

Given the OP guidelines (8 years at $12.5-$16M), you sign him to that and you're on cheap crack.

(in the past decade alone)

Victor Cruz
Hines Ward
Plaxico Burress
Reggie Wayne
Greg Jennings
Troy Vincent

All studs, all caught at least one TD pass during the championship win. All had kill seasons/playoffs leading to the big game.

fyp

wasn't troy vincent a cornerback?

as to your list...

1) victor cruz has exactly one year of great production. let's give him a year or two before we put him on any of these lists.
2) hines ward...yeah, he's not a top-flight WR. he's a gritty, down the middle third down type target, but he's not a dominator
3) plaxico burress...I'll give you this one
4) reggie wayne...sure, if I'm being generous
5) greg jennings...sure, but like the last two, I'm not sure I'd put him in that top 3-4, upper-echelon.
6) troy vincent obviously doesn't work for previously stated reasons.

Exactly, I am still pissed about them not paying Carr. Yeah, I know, he was a Cowboy fan but he should have been given enough $$ to sign anyway.

The writer claims Jerry Jones himself says he overpaid for Brandon Carr.

Oops
 

Oops, I meant Troy BROWN, Patriots.

You better call Hines a 'stud' or he'll come for ya :D

Point with this was to say the #1 WR does help in the big game. During big big games, if your offense can get one TD out of the star receiver, it takes the edge off an otherwise typically menacing defense (since all teams at this level of post season play have good defense) and opens up the pass game to other players. Plus, of course, it opens up the run game.

huh?....'stud WR' isn't a stat, it's just a description...I have no clue what you are babbling about, but it is nonsense

it's football, 'one [anything]' doesn't make a team (other than QB)...your 'argument' applies to everyone, and no one

as for WRs who have won Superbowl's, are you seriously asking this?

Irvin
Harrison
Bruce
Ward
Fitzgerald (sure as hell wasn't his fault they lost)

pretty much every team in the superbowl, win or lose has a WR with stats identical to Bowe...hell, some had two (Colts, Giants)

we've only got 1 (and a piece of shit QB to boot), and you all have predictably already rationalized letting him walk to save Clark's precious money (the true fan's only true desire)...

Rep!

IF IT DIDN'T WORK FOR THE PATRIOTS IT WON'T WORK FOR ANYONE ELSE! BELICHECK KNOWS ALL! THE PATRIOT WAY!!!!!!!/cheatriot fans

time for Clark to open up the pocket book. he's saved so much money the last 3+ years it's time to pay. Clark/Scooter......uh, it takes some cash to keep good players.

yeah, he's signed DJ, JC, TH...etc. BFD. need more than 3 studs on a team. He goes, this team has virtually no shot.

People that think teams will stack the box and stop the run, ain't seen nothing yet if Bowe is gone.

troy brown was never a top flight WR. the problem here is perspective and how we classify WRs. None of the guys, save a few of them at very select times, has EVER been a "Jerry Rice" type WR. none of them are all-time greats that are, at some point, top 3 in their position.

your premise is correct, though, that having a 'top-flight' WR (top 5-10) can open up the pass game for other players does pass the eye test.

I'M A DOUCHEBAG WITH NOTHING TO ADD TO THE CONVERSATION!!!!! /you

LMAO....."/you

The Clarks need to pony up.

DBowe is worth north of 10 million. All WR's drop the ball on occasion. He's stepped up his game over the last year or two and seems focused. He doesn't **** around, he doesn't get himself in trouble, and he makes spectacular grabs. He's a legit number 1, and a top ten receiver in the league if not better. ****, look who has been throwing him the football.

6 years - $69 million with $35 million guaranteed. I'd do that in a heartbeat. I just don't think the guy is a contract player. I think he'll remain solid, and has years of production ahead of him.

Unfortunately, we haven't tripped over our own feet and fallen ass-backwards into a HOF quarterback, so I think we should dispense with the patriot way BS.

First we need to build the lines. Once they're stocked with Pro-Bowlers, then we can shore up the TE position. Adding another midget or two out of the backfield would also be wise.

After these are accomplished, then it would be prudent to think about re-signing a WR.

One things for sure.

If we can't get him inked to a ltd, we should trade him to someone who can.

Even if it's for only a couple second rounders or a late first.

No sense in even keeping him for his franchise year only to let him walk after it.

Get something for him.

LMAO

At what point in negotiations would you stop raising your offer in hopes of signing Bowe to a ltd?

How much guaranteed $ and total amount do you consider "enough"?

I'd pay him that much if he could bring me Matt Cassel's scalp.

Its a hard question to answer.

If we were going to spend $10 million a year we'd save on Bowe improving the team, I'd say cut him loose - but we won't do that. We will continue trying to win with Matt Cassel and a bunch of average to above average players. As long as Cassel is QB, it would be a waste of the owner's money.

If we are going to remain committed to two more seasons of Cassel with no meaningful competition, which is my sneaking suspicion, we should trade him for picks.

How many people, when Carr wasn't signed, said "aw, that's OK, they're gonna use that money to pay Bowe?"

that's exactly why i didn't bitch about Carr leaving.

Ya, he was talking "stud" and to me, those players were studly during the season their team was champ. I'm in agreement btw with your sidenotes to my first comment. I was not calling any of those guys elite etc, just that they each played a studly role in getting to and winning the championship. Reggie Wayne had Marv that one season there, so Marv was the elite guy in the mix imo. Troy Brown played well every year practically, though never great. He played both ways (wr/cb) during one of those champ years, he was a stud.

Nearly everyone here.

As I stated a couple of times in this thread, the overall number 120-130 is complete bullshit and will never be realized.

$35M guaranteed wouldn't be out of step with what the market has established. However, Pioli has shown an ability to get team-friendly deals done.

No.

Don't you mean "it's ok, AS LONG AS they're gonna use that money to pay Bowe"?

The fact that we have to rationalize the possibility of this team not signing him is clear evidence of what is wrong with this franchise.

DBowe is the best wide receiver this team has EVER had IMO.

So, you're saying you would sign him to a contract you don't intend to fully honor?

That's bad business.

I'd give up fair market value, maybe go over by 10%...but that's it.

About 11/yr with half fully guaranteed.

Those who didn't were the ones saying that we had/have enough money to sign both.

Yep.

What? You think Fitz is going to see $120M?

Bowe will be 28 this fall. So let's say he's signed to an 8 year, $140M deal. He's only going to see the first three, maybe four, years of that deal because he'll be an aging, descending player soon.

That's not bad business; that's called life in the NFL. And this is also how a lot of dipshits go broke. They somehow believe that the have $140M or whatever headline material the dollar amount is. No matter that anyone with common sense realizes the figure is never coming to fruition.

What about Andre Rison, dogg?

Gasp! Teams don't actually do this, do they?

You realize this happens on every single team, don't you? Everyone knows that the non-guaranteed money in nfl contracts is basically meaningless outside the first three/four years.

Need to know how the contract is structured. If year 6 7 and 8 are 20 million a year then sure,

When you see a contract figure of 120-140m, I'm thinking the guaranteed figure is 50-60m.

That's what most are thinking. That's why I said no way.

ROFL

I was ready for someone to bring up Otis Taylor, the guy we all love, but not Andre Rison.

He's not going to get paid like Fitz or Megatron, but Bowe is a #1 WR, and he should get paid like one.

Exactly. If he's stuck on those figures it's because he wants out of town. Plain and simple. A 5-6 year deal worth 11-12 a year with half of it guaranteed should be pretty easy to get done if he has any interest in playing here.

Calvin got 50 guaranteed.
Fitz was between 42 and 50 guaranteed. Article I saw said 42, but there was an additional 8 "hidden" somewhere.

D. Jax gets 35 or so guaranteed in the first 3 years.

Bowe should be offered 38-40 guaranteed for the first 3 years, and then a reasonable base salary for year 4.

I agree.

6 or 60.

35+ guaranteed.

Why do we care about the number of years and total dollars when they're immaterial?

The only thing that matters is guaranteed dollars, and what you've suggested sounds fine.

1 week to get the long term deal done.

ROFL

I'd be all for that. The question is does Bowe go for it.

Yep.

This rule of not negotiating a new deal during the season is dumb.

At least they can Tag him again next year.

That rule will actually help the Chiefs work out a long term deal. It takes a lot of leverage away from Bowe. He can't threaten to hold out during training camp now. He either get s a deal worked out before the 15th or he's SOL until next offseason.

His production is comparale to Megatron before last season.

One would think his agent would be fishing in the same area the last big one was caught.
Exactly my point.

Nobody knows right now what the demands are for both sides of negotiations.

Pioli has shown the ability to get fair market deals done with our players...if Bowe wants more than what's reasonable, he can choose to walk and test the waters as a 29 year old receiver next offseason...or he could gamble and get hurt.

Also, something that's gone unmentioned tmk is his injury status.

He left the finale with injury...is it fully healed? Does it have a chance of being a problem going forward?

That's something to factor in if we are talking 35 million in guaranteed cash.

Johnson is viewed as a generational athlete/freak at the position. Bowe is not in this uber-elite class.

For some reason, you seem fixated on the total publicized dollar amount, which is irrelevant.

That's my point. He isn't in those guys class, but his first 5 years of production is and that's likely what his agent is using as his bait when he is fishing for a bigger deal than what makes sense.

Also, I know for a FACT that Bowe was pissed that he didnt get the exclusive brand of the franchise tag.

What does that tell you about his overinflated self worth?

Lets say Bowe wants a quasi "prorated" signing bonus thats equal to the % of stats he has in comparison to CJ in their 5 years in the league.


CJ
49 tds
5872 yards

Bowe
36 td
4927 yards

That means Bowe had roughly 85% of the yardage.

85% of 60 million is roughly 50 million.

He has roughly 75% of the tds...that equates to 45 million in guarantees.

So, let's throw out the 35 million in guarantees we are talking about and let's bump that up to between 45-50 million dollars in guarantees and a total of 100 over the same amount of years CJ got.

8 years, 100 million with 48 million guaranteed.

Would that be a contract you would applaud?

Personally, I think that's a spot on "educated guess" of what they are talking about behind closed doors in all of this.

Not sure Bowe is worth that type of deal, but we will see.

I think something between that deal and the one VJ got from Tampa would be fair, but it's hard to know what the demands are from each side.

this and this to the post you had quoted
Posted via Mobile Device

If Bowe wants out of town, that's Pioli's fault, too.

Lol.
Posted via Mobile Device

Hey, it's true. Carl pretty much chased Jared Allen outta here.

Chased a ****ing potential HOFer outta here.

How about that shit?

Stupid comparison.

So I was reading on ESPN about Drew Brees and the Saints. If they don't get a long term deal worked out in the next week, he's likely gone next year. They would have to franchise him again ( which I don't understand why they couldn't jsut sign him next offseason) and it woudl cost them like 27 million dollars to do so.


I know it won't happen, but what would you give the Saints right now for the guy?

These are just stupid posts.

Perfect examples of why the majority of people here think you are a fool.

It's a shame, really.

It's Pioli's job to create an environment where our best player wants to stay, sorry.

Bowe, Cassel and one "take your pick"

Goatcheese, who can't even handle the responsiblity in his own life, is going to define the parameters of Pioli's job.

What? Come on.

That's part of the GM's job. Carl sucked at it and we never attracted any big time FAs because of it.

I was thinking more draft picks if you could as it seems to be rare that players get traded for players in the NFL.


But I'd send Bowe and 3 firsts.


If they aren't going to resign him, I'd give them 3 firsts, 2 seconds right now and sign him to a long term deal.

Charles re-signed.

So did Hali.

Piolis fail starts and ends with Matt Cassel and he has the remedy for that sickness already on the roster.

Saying Bowe is our best player isnt smart.

You are not objective in any conversation about Scott Pioli. Pioli can't make Bowe want to stay or make Bowe want to sign a market deal here. That you can't grasp that concept states how completely braindead you are.

I err on the side of blaming him, sure, but that's because he's ****ed up a lot of shit.

I have given him credit in the past. Gave him credit this offseason.

It's true. No one else has been as consistently good.

Carl was abrasive where Scott obviously isn't at all.

If he was, we wouldn't have players taking market value left and right to stay in KC and also coming here as free agents.

Try a lot harder to be objective and people would respect you for more than gifd up.

Really? Remember his confrontation with the Detroit brass after we got our brains beat in?

He's a dick. A bald, fat, dick.