Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 8738870)

None of that is good enough.
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Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO (Post 8738875)

Orton would have made it easier to not trade up for a qb for a while
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Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8738890)

Kyle Orton would have saved Pioli's job, and bought him time to get a real QB.

Matt Cassel is going to get Pioli fired.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 8738888)

Exactly.

Sadly, people are going to be content with winning a playoff game, should it ever happen.

****, people are content with winning the division once every 5 years as it is.

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 8738922)

It's pretty much to the point that you've just described me. SB? This franchise? Right.

Originally Posted by Inmem58 (Post 8738957)

+2


We'll be 6-10 without Bowe. With Bowe 10-6.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8738961)

Dream scenario:

Bowe holds out for a month. We go 0-4.

Bowe gets paid. We win 7 of the last 12 games.

Finish 7-9.

House cleaned.

Pioli becomes a cuckold.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8738961)

Dream scenario:

Bowe holds out for a month. We go 0-4.

Bowe gets paid. We win 7 of the last 12 games.

Finish 7-9.

House cleaned.

Pioli becomes a cuckold.

Originally Posted by Dave (Post 8737944)

I think Pioli wants to wait and see what he has with Baldwin before committing to Bowe long term.

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8739586)

Cassel: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...C/CassMa00.htm

Orton: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...O/OrtoKy00.htm

Cassel has a higher TD% and lower INT%. And he has a higher QB rating.
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Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8739600)

No one gives a **** about career stats, you imbecile.

The last three seasons are what is relevant. That is a true picture of both players.

If you respond to this post with anything but humbled agreement you will suffer from burning anal warts for the rest of your life.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8738961)

Dream scenario:

Bowe holds out for a month. We go 0-4.

Bowe gets paid. We win 7 of the last 12 games.

Finish 7-9.

House cleaned.

Pioli becomes a cuckold.

Originally Posted by Laz (Post 8739611)

Dream Scenario:

Bowe Holds out during the preseason which gives Baldwin a chance to develop

Bowe signs 1 year tender and comes back for game 1 of regular season

Stanzi wins the start QB job in preseason

Stanzi,Bowe,Baldwin,Breaston go on to lead the league is passing yards

Charlis and Hillis both break 1000 yards rushing

Chiefs shatter the dreams of the 72 dolphins by have a perfect season

Chiefs win the Super Bowl

Bowe is so happy with this season that he signs a reasonable long term contract in the offseason.

Originally Posted by R8ers (Post 8739614)

You said Chiefs and Superbowl :hump:LMAOLMAO:LOL:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan50/50 (Post 8739603)

Anyone not named Brodie Croyle or Tyler Palko is an upgrade over Cassel at QB.

Originally Posted by Cassel>Manning (Post 8739590)

PFF has graded Cassel higher than Orton in 2008, 2010, and 2011.

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8739605)

Heh 3 years. How convenient.
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Originally Posted by Laz (Post 8739617)

at least i know how to dream


unlike that moron goatboy

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8739586)

Cassel: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...C/CassMa00.htm

Orton: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...O/OrtoKy00.htm

Cassel has a higher TD% and lower INT%. And he has a higher QB rating.
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Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8739709)

Hey, just thought I'd club the baby seal some more.

Matt Cassel throws over 20 yards:

2008 – 8 for 38 – 21 percent
2009 – 16 for 55 – 29 percent (thank you Chris Chambers for snagging those underthrown jump balls)
2010 – 10 for 44 – 23 percent
2011 – 9 for 30 – 30 percent

Now compare him to a guy who is just “OK.”

2008 – 18 for 57 – 31.5 percent
2009 – 19 for 48 – 39.6 percent
2010 – 26 for 63 – 41.2 percent
2011 – 4 for 11 – 36.3 percent

That player? KYLE ORTON.

I rest my case.

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink (Post 8739810)

Pioli doesn't budge. The only position you potentially overpay for is QB. And Pioli's worst fear is coming true with Cassel that he is trying to prevent. Common sense at that point would then dictate that you go ahead and overpay Bowe to help prevent your worst nightmare.

But an even worse nightmare would be to have Cassel to continue to suck with Bowe not performing up to his contract let alone being married to his longterm contract. Pioli doesn't doubt Bowe's ability for a second. But what Pioli does doubt in a second is Bowe's character and integrity to the game and to himself. Pioli doesn't trust him because he figured out about Bowe a long time ago with all the little red flags along the way that Bowe is a quiet 'premaddona' whose ego is waaaaaay to big for the KC small market.

If Bowe had Rice or Fitz talent and integrity to the game Pioli has this deal done a long time ago.:thumb:

Bowe is good but he ain't no Fitz or Rice.

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink (Post 8739810)

Pioli doesn't budge. The only position you potentially overpay for is QB. And Pioli's worst fear is coming true with Cassel that he is trying to prevent. Common sense at that point would then dictate that you go ahead and overpay Bowe to help prevent your worst nightmare.

But an even worse nightmare would be to have Cassel to continue to suck with Bowe not performing up to his contract let alone being married to his longterm contract. Pioli doesn't doubt Bowe's ability for a second. But what Pioli does doubt in a second is Bowe's character and integrity to the game and to himself. Pioli doesn't trust him because he figured out about Bowe a long time ago with all the little red flags along the way that Bowe is a quiet 'premaddona' whose ego is waaaaaay to big for the KC small market.

If Bowe had Rice or Fitz talent and integrity to the game Pioli has this deal done a long time ago.:thumb:

Bowe is good but he ain't no Fitz or Rice.

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 8739817)

Thanks for your contribution.

After reading that tripe, I'm going to watch Sesame Street so I can get a more intelligent perspective on things.

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8739815)

How does Bowe have an ego problem? Dude does stuff for the fans, stays after practice, works his butt off, and has no criminal record. He's the ultimate team player that Pioli likes.

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan50/50 (Post 8739603)

Anyone not named Brodie Croyle or Tyler Palko is an upgrade over Cassel at QB.

Originally Posted by BoneKrusher (Post 8739623)

yep, that's how i see it.

Originally Posted by whoman69 (Post 8739838)

Or Brady Quinn. List is not quite that short in reality. McCoy, Gabbert, Haney and Clausen come to mind.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8739825)

He's black and flamboyant. White, suburban conservatives hate his tatted ass.

Originally Posted by Hoover (Post 8737857)

All this talk that we will not sign him to a long term contract (he already agreed to the 1 year deal folks) means that I bet something gets done.

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8739859)

How, in over 125,000 posts, have you not gotten tired of trolling this forum?

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8739859)

How, in over 125,000 posts, have you not gotten tired of trolling this forum?

Originally Posted by DTLB58 (Post 8739863)

Wait, He signed his Franchise tender?

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8739864)

I mean, I can't really explain the reputation some Chiefs fans think Bowe has earned as a goofy slack-offish yet talented WR whose only problem is he doesn't respect the game. You saw it in Chiefshrink's post.

I mentioned this before, but it's not just drops. Once again, Jerry Rice had a terrible time with drops early in his career, and he never really fixed it for good, either. It cropped up again just from the change of QB from Montana to Young. Yet Rice had integrity for the game supposedly and was the team player that Bowe isn't.

That's just a flat-out lie.

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8739870)

My point is that attributing the perception that Bowe is lazy and undisciplined based on his race is also a flat-out lie, by Claytard, to get a reaction. Plus, it's not entirely unfounded. Bowe reports in twenty pounds overweight after running his mouth about imports? We are just a couple seasons removed from that. Who is to say that he won't get lazy after his contract? I certainly don't have enough information to make that call. Neither do you, so maybe you shouldn't pretend to.

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 8739874)

Almost everyone showed up for that camp overweight, by the standards set by the new regime.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8739873)

A couple seasons is an eternity. Bowe is reformed. Completely.

And if you don't think race enters into it, you're wrong. If Bowe was white, shit, all the hillbillies in Missouri would love his ass. He'd be a legend.

Anyone who has a little bit of "gangsta thug" in them has always been given a raw deal by this fanbase.

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8739880)

Bowe may be reformed. But you don't know that, so stop pretending like it's a fact.

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8739878)

Perhaps the standards established by the "old regime" were inadequate. Certainly the level of discipline was. But again, we don't know.

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 8739889)

The discipline and stadards were absolutely too low, and this is pretty much all Bowe knew.

When the bar was set higher, he reached that bar, and came to the realization that he could reach higher, which is why he began to work with Fitzgerald in the offseasons.

Bowe has never had a work ethic problem.

His problem was he didn't know how to work.

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8739892)

There are an awful lot of assumptions here.

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8739880)

Bowe may be reformed. But you don't know that, so stop pretending like it's a fact.

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8739899)

You don't know he's not. The guy has had two entire seasons to change his attitude and work habits and he has hit all green lights.

I have no idea what more Bowe can do to win over people who think he hasn't irrevocably changed himself.

This isn't like maintaining a healthy and cautious distrust of Jared Allen one full year removed from his 2nd DUI. That's dealing with alcoholism. Showboating and attitude isn't alcholism.

Two years of no showboating and saying and doing ALL the right things is enough. When is it ever not?

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8739902)

We don't have the perspective from inside the locker room. The fact is, that Pioli has more information to make a more informed decision than we can as to his reformation.

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 8739896)

Perhaps.

But let's look at all the stories that discuss Bowe's lack of work ethic through the years.

Oh, that's right.
There aren't any.

Has anyone with a poor work ethic ever gone through 5 years without at least a whisper of that poor work ethic?

Originally Posted by Nightfyre (Post 8739902)

We don't have the perspective from inside the locker room. The fact is, that Pioli has more information to make a more informed decision than we can as to his reformation.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8739803)

Best way to score touchdowns?

Throw the ball down the field.

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8739914)

Best way to score touchdowns? Score touchdowns.

I couldn't care less if Orton throws 600 yard every game. He's proven every single year that he's a terrible red zone QB and a terrible 3rd down QB. Score touchdowns or GTFO.

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8739914)

Best way to score touchdowns? Score touchdowns.

I couldn't care less if Orton throws 600 yard every game. He's proven every single year that he's a terrible red zone QB and a terrible 3rd down QB. Score touchdowns or GTFO.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8739922)

He never had a running game in Denver.

He would be a lot better in Kansas City. We wouldn't lose games at home to the ****ing Tim Tebows of the world.

There is really no comparison between Cassel and Orton. Not remotely the same.

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8739916)

I'm far more trusting of the QB who consistently throws for 200-some yards to score TDs than the one who only musters up 85.

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8739927)

Yeah, you're right. One's a starter and one's a back up.

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 8739930)

Which?

Both are high-quality backups. Nothing more.

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8739914)

Best way to score touchdowns? Score touchdowns.

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8739929)

At the end of the day Cassel has won more. At the end of the day, there's a reason Orton is a back up QB.
.

Originally Posted by R8ers (Post 8739941)

Orton is considered to be the best backup QB in the NFL right now.... One mess up and Romo will be on the bench.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8739949)

I think Orton would light it up in that offense.

Dez Bryant, Austin, Witten, 2 good RB...

Originally Posted by milkman (Post 8739896)

Perhaps.

But let's look at all the stories that discuss Bowe's lack of work ethic through the years.





Oh, that's right.
There aren't any.

Has anyone with a poor work ethic ever gone through 5 years without at least a whisper of that poor work ethic?

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink (Post 8740009)

Bottom line: The babysitter is gone. Crennel's style is not to babysit unlike Haley who loved to babysit Bowe and everybody else for that matter.

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8739929)

I'm not trusting of either.

At the end of the day Cassel has won more. At the end of the day, there's a reason Orton is a back up QB.

But most importantly, I'm happy that neither will likely be the QB next year. Because if Orton had re-signed, we'd likely be stuck with him.

Originally Posted by SNR (Post 8740206)

One is better than the other. It doesn't have to be significant, but the difference between the two is clear.

You're really not making any big points by saying "They both suck". No ****ing shit.

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8740236)

There should be no one sad about the loss of Orton.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 8740243)

I have no doubt, Orton easily beats out Cassel in a comp.



One thing I do like about Crennel is that he doesn't seem to be big on Cassel.


Which I like.

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 8740250)

Play well enough to beat him out, or actually beat him out?

I'll take the former, not the latter.

No way someone starts at QB for this team unless Cassel is injured.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8740241)

If we had Orton here, we would be moving on from Cassel, because he would ****ing embarrass him with our lineup on offense. We'd be a top 10 offense, easy.

Originally Posted by Toad King (Post 8740241)

If we had Orton here, we would be moving on from Cassel, because he would ****ing embarrass him with our lineup on offense. We'd be a top 10 offense, easy.

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 8740251)

Really think it would have been to obvious not to start him over Cassel.

Originally Posted by -King- (Post 8740256)

If we had Orton here, we'd have 3 more seasons of mediocrity. Atleast with Cassel it's likely one.