Going 0-16 would only benefit this team in the long run.

Do you really want to see a season where the Chiefs play like crap, somehow win 30-40% of their games, and have the management keep telling the press that everyone is doing a great job and getting better?

I don't.

I know exactly how you feel, and I'm a big football guy and I like to talk and think about football. And I am in the same boat with you about this franchise is draining my love for the game out of me, so I been doing something else that is more productive for my time with regards to football.

I been busy coaching MS and HS team here in Kansas City, and it's much better to teach them the basic fundamentals and help them get better every day.

It's definitely much better this way and more enjoyable for a guy like me, and it helps that K-State is winning as well. I'm not going to let whatever that I have no control over going to bother me. I'm just going to focus on what I can control.

Would you mind falling down during a critical juncture every week?

Saying Clark Hunt is cheap has officially been debunked.

He may not be sending the checks to the right places, but the checks are getting signed and sent out.

Dane, I just don't understand how ANYONE can call a guy cheap that is one of the highest spenders of cash on player payroll, pays the highest amount to his GM of anyone in football and his team would be OVER the salary cap if we didn't roll over 20 million of cap space from last year.

Carr wanted to play in Dallas and that's where he went and never left regardless of who was calling (and there were multiple teams) so Pioli made a major move asap to fill his spot by adding Routt (who has played well so far)

Not only that, but by losing Carr we will get a third round compensatory pick.

Routt + 3.5 million + 3rd round pick > Brandon Carr

As far as Bowe goes...he has the same agent as Mike Wallace and MW has said he wants top 3 wr money...cant imagine Bowes demands are much different.

That's in the neighborhood of 45 million guaranteed dollars...not 50 million combined for Carr + Bowe...that would be closer to 70 million in guarantees for the pair.

When ALL of the evidence is examined, it's understandable where we are with Bowe and Carr.

TBH Bowe is only ****ong himself because if Pioli signs Albert long term during the year (which is highly possible) Bowe will get tagged again after this season and will hit free agency at 30 years old.

At that point, he is gonna be hoping for top 10 money and that's if he doesn't get any significant injuries...the years will also be less, too because nobody is gonna sign him a 30 year old wr to a 6 year deal...likely a 3 or 4 year deSl MAX.

There are lots of things to fault Pioli and Hunt for...Carr and Bowe shouldn't be included IMO.

Who ****ing cares? He let Carr walk and didn't sign Bowe.

He's ****ING CHEAP!

The ****ing NFL is about GUARANTEED CONTRACTS.

Jesus ****ing Christ.

cheap or not, this has been an absolute ****ing failure. like Whitlock said, Cassel was the original sin. ONce he signed that qb to a contract it was all bad from there. Its like Cassel would be a back up to not even on a NFL roster if it wasnt for Pioli.

Also, 4 ****ing draft picks and not 1 person in them 4 drafts is an difference maker on the FIELD. WHen you draft 3-5-11 you have to ****ing get some kind of production and we relaly havent. Berry was almost there, but he's not right now.

How many super bowls do the top 5 paid QB's have?

How many do the bottom 5 have?

There's your correlation ****stick...

With all due respect, dont you think you're being a bit stubborn here?

DJ
Hali
Charles
Flowers

All of them got competitive guaranteed money if you are being fair in your assessment of "competitive".

How can anyone call them cheap without knowing what Bowes actual demands are?

I mean, I laid the groundwork for the best possible educated guess on what it could be (45-50) and that's DOUBLE what you speculated to earlier.

Is Clark cheap if he doesn't DOUBLE what YOU saw as a reasonable guess?

pioli says a lot of stupid shit

How much is Matt due next year? Like 9 million?

If Scott and Matt are both back next season, and Matt isn't asked to take a pay cut, we needs to stage a walkout or something.

If Matt is playing for $10 I would still want the fans to do it.

7.5 in 2013
9 in 2014

He should be forced to take a paycut down to like 2.5 million max and we shouldn't lose anybody except him if he doesn't agree.

I wonder if NE would want him back for Mallett...if we threw in sweeteners.

Like aspartame?

FYP

Big ****ing deal.

How many superstar Baltimore Ravens have been allowed to walk in their prime? Pittsburgh Steelers? NY Giants?

Four guys don't make a team.

You need to get over this shit.

This shit is awful, atleast the Cleveland Browns have a new owner that will likely clean house after they go 3-13, I have a feeling it will be like this for the next couple of seasons

Let's not be so quick to label Brandon Carr a "superstar", either. He is a very very solid second corner but he doesn't get a lot of picks or cause a lot of fumbles and he isn't "special" in run support, either. He is a very very solid #2 cover corner...NOT a "superstar".

All of those teams have let guys walk. It's part of the NFL...The Texans had to let Mario Williams walk and they cut Winston as well as a couple others.

Giants:
Manningham
Ross
Smith
They have been playing similar games with Osi for quite some time

Ravens
Grubbs
Johnson
A bunch of quality players other than those, too. 2 good safeties and Cory Redding.

Steelers are doing with Wallace what we are with Bowe and the two players have the same agent...the same agent Branden Albert USED to have before he fired him...and let's not act as if they don't let players walk because they do.
They offer a fair deal and don't overpay, that's the Rooney way. If the player chooses to walk, so be it...that's what's happening with Wallace right now.

Those teams all have talent in those areas because they have drafted well or brought in the proper FA acquisitions, we didn't.

We have no depth at CB, None.

Routt is an adequate replacement and the move frees up 3.5 million to use elsewhere (maybe ends up going to either Albert or Bowe) and gives us a third round pick as well.

We do have depth at corner...it's just hurt (Brown fared well against Fitzgerald in ps prior to getting hurt) or stupidly moved to another position (Daniels)

And that's what it comes down to. Look, I'm fine with cutting ties with Carr, but ****, don't allow our secondary to lie in shambles for the following season.

I do not know if Clark is cheap, but he and Pioli seem to be incredibly inept at identifying talent, which explains the positions of Pioli, Cassel, Haley, Crennel, and the problems which currently plague the entirety of the team.

I may be nineteen years old, but watching this team makes me feel like a crusty and weathered old man.

Brown's atrocious preseason outings against St. Louis and Seattle justified finding more depth at that position. At this point, all signs point to Brown becoming O'Connell 2.0.

Signing Routt as a replacement knocks the depth argument out of the equation.

Especially when you figure the comp pick into the equation.

No, it doesn't, not after Brown's horrendous outings in preseason. There is not one excuse that justifies Reeves starting position in game one.

Totally disagree.

Brown isn't there yet, but he has the talent to get to the point of being a quality #2 corner.

Regardless of his "potential," we are losing legitimate games because of his current lack of "quality."

24-40, 17-35.

If those results aren't indicative of Pioli's embarrassing lack of attention to the Chiefs secondary, I do not know what is.

Reeves is garbage and you won't find me defending him or why he was kept...but if it weren't for stacked injuries he wouldn't have ever gotten on the field except for special teams.

Flowers
Brown
Menzie

When you have stacked injuries like that...especially at corner...it's gonna get ugly for any team.

The sad part is that Daniels should have been the one out there after those guys went down.

That's a major head scratcher for me.

We had the cap room and ability to acquire more talent at corner in the offseason, with the knowledge of Flowers and Menzie's injuries before the preseason, (as well as Daniels new position.) Pioli's oversight on the secondary is nothing short of a humiliation for the team.

The Bills completed 10 passes and I bet we held Ryan to one of the lowest passing totals he will have all year, even though he roasted us.

Those scores are largely because of poorly timed turnovers.

Cassels fumble and first pick (along with the missed fg) knocked us out of the Atlanta game when it was a close contest up until that point.

Cassels fumble and Hillis fumble while going into the endzone killed the buffalo game...NOT secondary depth...we couldn't contain Spiller and we turned the ball over at inopportune times.

Jeez people, let's try to remain at least somewhat objective.

It sucks losing good players, but it happens to every team in football.

Menzie went down in preseason not before and the pickings at corner were very slim outside of Drayton Florence.

It is what it is.

To be fair, they didn't need to throw. But as of right now Jalil Brown is not a viable option to come in and start at the cb position, I went to the preseason game against Seattle and he looked absolutely horrible.

I would argue that this is moreso a result of our half-ply running defense, rather than any considerable achievement of our secondary. I also question the effect the turnovers truly had on the outcome of the game. While Hillis' fumble was a momentum breaker, Buffalo drove down the field more or less uncontested in four of their drives on Sunday.

Sigh, I can agree with you there. :(

How about a big healthy dose of crow man? What you said was bullshit and you should man up and apologize.

We kept the wrong guy. He is a #1 CB and he should have been in KC.
He's always been a better cover guy than Flowers. Also, Flowers quit growing a couple of years ago and Carr hasn't stopped. He is still an ascending player.

It's that stupid 2-3-6 scheme. We are relying on that scheme too much. With Lewis out, Daniels has to play safety. Romeo needs to trash that formation because it is killing us on so many levels.

The Chiefs should bring in Eric Hicks to mentor everyone on being ok with an 0-4 start.

How do you feel about the 2-3-6 defensive scheme, Mr. BlackBob?

FAX

Surely you are forgetting a couple keys to these beatdowns. Spiller had like 60 yards rushing during the first qtr alone and just knifed through the line at will, so there really was no reason to throw the ball a lot.

Secondly, you know damn well this defensive backfield is more than one step down from what this team had last season -- even with Berry gone. They are undermanned back there, to say the least. I haven't seen that much confusion in this team's secondary since back when Herm was coach.

Third, QB's have all day to throw on the Chiefs, so there's that. It hasn't been this way in years. Tamba makes this defense look respectable when paired with Carr/Flowers. I know this will change some as the season progresses, but I don't think this defense will look as good as the did last year. They had deficits at the safety position, but the other three players did a good job keeping order much of the season.

This looks nothing like the defense we've seen recently and it's not the "new coach". The players are mentally breaking down. They are football stupid, some of them and that is showing up in spades this season because they are so full of themselves, they think they can just freelance this defense and be golden. Heh. Not. Gonna. Work.

I'm really curious to see how we perform against the Saints.

By now, they're probably a tad frustrated and a little angry and a lot hungry and are viewing the Chiefs as a nice, ripe slab of red meat ... with a side of taters and a heapin' helpin' of satisfaction.

I don't expect a win ... that's far too unrealistic ... but it's going to take one hell of a turn-around for us to even appear competitive against that team on the road under these conditions. Will we show improvement? Or, will we flutter about like a lengthy Philippine labia in a stiff ocean breeze? This is a true test of Crennel's skill as a motivator, schemer, and overseer. Given the circumstances, you couldn't ask for a better challenge.

FAX

I hate it and it's not working. It wastes Berry's talent by basically making him a LB, we can't stop the run with 2 down linemen and the Bills exploited that, and we have been lined up in that formation on every TD we have given up but one.

I feel that RAC has outsmarted himself with this one. Please make it stop Romeo!

Joselio Hansen should have been worked out.

BlackBob, I thought we only ran a 3-3-5?


Additionally, the 2-3-6 is a great package if you have 3 competent safeties and can get a pass rush from your 2 down lineman and your 2 OLBs.

If Lewis, Menzie, and Bailey were healthy, then this D would look a lot better IMO.

Poe would need to pick his play up, but having Bailey instead of what we have now would help. Granted, this defense would still be ****ed overall because they're on the field the entire ****ing game.

Just stop. No one wants to see your little bitchfest again. We all know BB is a tard.

Alright, alright.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_majujf6FwN1ro2d43.gif

Off-topic, but Sets have you heard anything about Fred Taylor's kid? Is he a senior this year?

So true, it doesnt matter that his completion % or ypg are up... he cant 'lift' his teammates, their utter lack of visible enthusiasm last week proves it beyond doubt... i'm still not over just how forlorn they looked, they walked onto that field with O faith in their leader.

His completion percentage is down, buddy.

Believe it.

I thought i'd seen where he was somewhere in the 60's (holy crap!) against atl, oh well, we still lost & he still sucks.

I'm worried that this is going to be like last year. Somehow, we end up starting Quinn/Stanzi and they produce in a similar fashion to Orton. The team believes in them, our D plays better, and we end up drafting around 12th-19th, thus removing ourselves from a legitimate QB. Knowing our luck, all of the pass-rushers will be gone and we'll be left with a 5-tech to replace Dorsey.

STOP!!!

There are no moral victories in the NFL. That we don't look like shit is not showing improvement.

It's hard man. I'll get better at, I swear! It is just that was so excited for Suck 4 Luck that I don't know if I can handle it again.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7bt22DNmZ1qcyexx.gif

58 percent and 1:1 TD-INT ratio.

And that's with garbage time boosters.

He's a gutless TERD

Or we trade down, pick up an extra 3rd and trade that pick and a 5th to NE for Mallet.

QUIT!!!

If Bowe is gone next year and Cassel/Pioli are still on this team......I'm done.

Yeah, I know, that's the third time I have posted that scenario.

It's my biggest fear though.

Yes, we need to go back to Romeo's standard 3-3-5 or 4-2-5 nickel package that he has used the past. We have given up one TD out of the 3-3-5Nickel this year and the rest out of that stupid 2-3-6 defense. Again, it's a 3-3-5 NICKEL package and not a 3-3-5 STAR package. PFF only counts the star package.

Bailey has sucked this year. He's not even the #2 DE. He sucked before his injury. He sucked in training camp. He sucked in the preseason. Please stop talking about Bailey. If you don't believe me, google it because the Star and several others talked about his struggles. Personally, I think he got a big head.

The whole entire pupose of that formation is to get Poe one on one and Berry in the box. It has failed horribly.

I gave a long post about this again in another thread this morning.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...=263929&page=4



That's probably the most likely scenario and I bet you won't be done. Stop being so dramatic.

I would... she's pretty funny when she's bitchy.

Comment From shakatak
Do you think Clark Hunt will ax Pioli if the Chiefs go, say, 4-12 this year or are we stuck with him for awhile?


Kent Babb: I think you're stuck with him for a while. The bottom line of this thing is that Pioli makes the Hunt family a lot of money. I mean, a lot. And the Hunts look at this not just from a team loyalty standpoint but also as a company. That's understandable, because it's true. But, man, Pioli knows have to save/make money, and that gives him a cushion. Plus, Clark wants people to hang around for a long time. That doesn't make it right, in this case.

I get the continuity thing. Makes sense and the NFL is a business.


But FFS, how much more money would you make if you, you know, took a risk and paid out salaries, drafted a first round qb and won a SB?

I think it would be a huge improvement. Probably means we'd be competitive in games instead of getting bulldozed over and then drug for miles underneath...

BOO! SUCK!

Off with the management's head.

Go **** yourself, dipshit.

LMAO I like the Black Bob FAIL chart.

if KC has a losing season and I'm mean losing 10 straight off the bat, that statement won't hold true. Babb's jumping the shark there.

Me too. :thumb:

This

:cuss:

On the positive side of the ledger, continuity is an important factor in the NFL. There seems to be a correlation between long-tenured leadership and winning. That mainly applies to HCs, though.

By the way, has anyone taken the time to compare Carl's first 4 years to Dr. Evil's first 4?

If my drug-addled memory hasn't failed me entirely, it seems like I read somewhere that Carl got off to a pretty good start here in KC ... both in terms of the draft (DT) and the coach (MS) ... before things began to wane over the next two decades, of course.

It would make for an interesting article in the Star, I think. A good hook for Babb, maybe.

FAX

IIRC, or remember reading correctly, Carl walked into a pretty good situation, much the same as Pioli.

Carl's first 50 games: 31-18-1, 1-2 playoffs

Pioli's first 50 games: 21-29, 0-1 playoffs


Carl's worthwhile (contributor+) picks:

Derrick Thomas, Robb Thomas, Todd McNair, Tim Grunhard, Dave Szott, Tim Barnett, Charles Mincy, Dale Carter

Pioli's worthwhile (contributor+) picks:

Tyson Jackson, Ryan Succop, Eric Berry, Dexter McCluster, Javier Arenas, Jon Assamoah, Tony Moeaki, Kendrick Lewis, Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, Dontari Poe


Carl wins W/L record.

Draft is a push.

Carl's best players blow Pioli's out of the water.

Pioli is slightly better at grabbing mediocre contributors. He's got fistfuls of Charles Mincys and Todd McNairs, and no Derrick Thomases or Dale Carters.


Wins over winning teams

Carl - 11
Pioli - 3

Pioli has drafted a bunch of guys that, in 3 years could be real difference makers.

Problem is, when he had a draft spot to grab a real difference maker, he shit out Tyson Jackson and Baldwin

Interesting, Mr. GoChiefs. And kind of funny. A couple questions for which I have no idea how to find the answers as I am the worst researcher on the Earth as we know it ...

1. What was the Chiefs record in the year(s) prior to Carl/DE? I wonder if we're talking about an even playing field, you know?

2. Didn't Carl hire MS in his first year on the job? If so, that compares very favorably to the Haley/Romeo hires.

3. Those draft picks you've listed ... those were selected during the 50 game period of time you're comparing? (I didn't word that very well, but you catch my drift, right?)

Assuming that both GMs started from a similar baseline in terms of existing players, record, etc., it appears that Carl takes the cake and DE locks the bathrooms. Pretty interesting, actually.

FAX

Carls ways worked very well, when running the ball and playing defense were the way to go. Dunno what he would do know.


Apparently, Pioli is following the same method.

Oh ... and Szott and Grunhard were no slouches in my book. Have we drafted an o-lineman anywhere close to those guys?

Also, when was Neil Smith drafted? After the 4th year of Carl's tenure?

FAX

Doing a 360 turn puts you right back on the same path.

He was drafted by the previous regime.

I can't believe some of you guys are talking about Carl Peterson. Just go away. Seriously. Go get drunk and jerk off over your high school sweet heart while your at it.

Pioli has drafted some guys who absolutely have the potential to become game changers. However, if they don't, isn't that even on him a little for putting the wrong people in charge to make it happen?

1. 4-11-1, 4-11, 10-6, 6-10

2. Yes

3. I've compared Carl's first four drafts to Pioli's first four. That's a little unfair to Pioli because DeQuan Menzie could be a Hall of Famer.

I'm still excited for this team and know they can turn it around, they have the weapons.

Not defending the Tyson Jackson pick, but getting a potential #1 receiver who we knew was a project and a force at the OLB with one first rounder? I'm not going to complain about that

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-conte...es/kip_yes.gif

and

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mag88vxKVs1rrbnsm.gif