I agree with this. I think that's what makes this off-season and the Chiefs position at 1.1 in the draft so interesting/exciting.

Therein lies the problem.

The Anti-QB at 1.1 people have been shouting forever that the Chiefs will NEVER take a QB at 1.1. They can't admit that it's a legitimate ****ing possibility.

:LOL::LOL:

mizzou butthurt always makes me laugh


ROFL

Matt Cassel couldnt beat out Brady. Lets have him in for a look

No he sucks because he sucks. His arm sucks. His accuracy sucks. His size sucks. His leadership sucks. Chase Daniel sucks and it has nothing to do with Drew Brees.

Exactly. No one knows what were going to do, and with all the moves they've made so far, theres no real glaring need. The Chiefs could draft whoever they love the most (it would be nice if they loved a QB the most tho). Its very interesting.

Maybe Dorsey is the 1%

Maybe Dorsey is completely separating the Draft from everything else.

Maybe trades,signings,cuts,salary,player history have absolutely nothing to do with what they are going to do in the draft.

Then again, maybe people are just trying really hard to believe what they want to believe. Most teams give indicators of what they are going to try to do in the draft by who they cut/sign etc during the offseason.

I nominate you to start the"Chase Daniels Does, Always Has, and Always Will Suck" thread

If we came out and said we were seriously interested in taking Geno at 1, nobody would call to trade up.

I think there is a real chance we draft Geno IF nobody offers a good trade down haul.

I don't think there are very many anti-QB at 1.1 people. Maybe a few, but it seems like the pro-Geno people tend to imagine that anyone who isn't all-in on Geno is anti-QB at 1.1. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know I've been accused of being anti-QB several times and that's not true at all.

Window licking reeruns make me laugh.

Be honest... you don't have a clue who this Chase Daniel guy is, do you?

window licking?

:spock:


must be a MU trailer park thing :p

I know you guys love my graphs, so here's one about positional value relating to first round picks...

This one has:

X-axis: pick # (goes up to 32)
Y-axis: the difference in winning percentage between the teams that drafted that position and all teams that drafted at that pick #. Positive is good (your team improved more than expected for your draft position), negative is bad (your team got worse than expected).

First one is offense, second is defense.

http://s23.postimage.org/urtxsuby3/image.png
picture hosting

http://s24.postimage.org/8fqo6i22t/image.png
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I heard it all this morning. They are all in with Geno, now.

Draft Joekel and get the season started.

So just to make sure I'm reading that graph right... A team shouldn't take a WR early? And if you take a DE late you're bound to suck? And QB is good as long as you take him top 3 or in the 20's?

I'm not anti-QB at 1.1 in any way, shape or form. There are all kinds of logical, well-thought out reasons why it would make sense to do it. I would do it, had I the power. But it isn't going to happen. Because it isn't a legitimate possibility. Not for this franchise. Allowing any glimmer of hope into your mind is just opening the door for crushing disappointment in a month.

It's just past data. You decide how much you trust it to predict the future.

That being said, there's only one position that typically has improved the teams that have picked it very early, and has actually been picked at #1 overall before.

Maybe there is a chance. We are filling holes. It's possible they want to win now and have a QBOTF. Let Alex have a year to prove himself then move on to Geno. Alex would be very tradable after a year with his contract, and they are filling lots of holes. I'm saying we are trading down most likely, but if we keep it I won't be shocked to hear Geno's name called.

The Titans gave up a 2nd and 3rd round pick for Hasselbeck?

Same thing happened with Cassel/Sanchez. A group of people held out hope the Chiefs would still take Sanchez even after giving up a 2nd for Cassel and speaking highly of him.

HUGE DIFFERENCE.

We wouldn't be paying Geno Smith a $50-$60 million contract.

Cassel wasn't a 29 year old QB that had a long history of being nothing more than a game manager. He still had upside.

Alex Smith is a known quantity...

An injury prone game manager that is a good game manager/stopgap.

Also, Geno will be cheap, where Sanchez would have cost 60m

The Daniel haters seem to be in two camps - Geno ballwashers who'd hate anybody the the Chiefs signed not named Geno, and angry beakers still butthurt about getting their shit pushed in back in 2007. I don't really give a crap about either group.

I have no idea whether Daniel will rise to the challenge if presented the opportunity - if he doesn't, I'll want him gone just as much as the next guy. But anybody who seriously thinks Chase sucks because he's been a "career backup" is too dumb to ****ing live.

Andy Reids qbs in 2009

McNabb - second overall pick
Kolb - 36th pick
Vick - free agent signing

Look familiar to what we would have if we draft Geno?

Geno at 1
We traded the 34th pick for Alex
Signed Chase Daniels in FA

Wait, what?

Cassel had upside?!?! Whaaaa??? LMAO

Cassel was a 28-year old career clipboard-holder who'd never played in college, and had one unremarkable season calling plays for one of the most loaded offenses in the league. Upside? Who in the world outside of Scott Pioli's office ever thought for a second he'd be anything? You can at least make the (completely vacuous) argument that Alex Smith is on an upward career trajectory. Cassel was a complete non-entity.

Good grief, dude.

Mind....Blown....:thumb:

I'm sure he'll do a fine job of keeping the headphones propped on his noggin, making sure he has an excellent supply of working pens and fetching water and towels as the situation requires.

:evil:

Would they have to to make it a better comparison than Favre/Rodgers?

You posted this using hindsight.

The NFL absolutely thought the guy had upside.

Not really. Not really very similar at all. Almost the mirror opposite.

Do explain

Still in the draft Geno camp. Let him sit for a year, trade Alex and we have our QB of the future.

You realize you're trying to equate moves made over 10 years with one offseason, right? Not to mention comparing a 33 year old who'd been drafted at 2 ten years prior with a rookie #1, a 23-year old who'd been drafted at 36 two years prior with a 29-year old trade acquisition, and a 29-year old former #1 pick with years of starts with a 26-year old undrafted player who's attempted 9 passes in his career. I think I might call that reaching a bit.

1 problem. Reid didn't grab McNabb, Kolb, and Vick all in 1 offseason.

No, I'm not. I said the same thing in 2009. And so did lots of other people.

Foresight:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...29&postcount=7
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...45&postcount=9
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...&postcount=134

At this point, I can see no other excuse.
Posted via Mobile Device

AMEN.
Posted via Mobile Device

In one case, the top of the draft QB is an over-the-hill shell of his former self and in the other, he's an unproven future-rookie. (McNabb vs GenoS)

In one case, the free agent signing is a seasoned vet with such tantalizing physical attributes he was selected 1.1 when he came out of college and in the other, he's a negligible-experience, career backup whose physical attributes kept him from getting drafted at all. (Vick vs Daniel)

In one case, the guy acquired with a 2nd round pick is a green, rookie and in the other he's a multi-year starter. (Kolb vs AlexS)

Edit: I see keg has already covered this.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost....&postcount=298
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost....&postcount=132
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost....&postcount=160
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost....44&postcount=6
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost....&postcount=453
http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost....3&postcount=12

And the NFL thinks Alex Smith is a huge upgrade right this minute. So you are saying..................

I have a lot of posts from back then hating on Cassel, too...but we aren't NFL PEOPLE and that's clearly what I said.

To act as if teams didnt think Cassel had upside in 2009, is beyond silly.

?

In 2008, McNabb had a damn good year. Almost 4000 yards 23:11...in 2009, he had over 3500 yards and 22:10

He wasnt an over the hill, sell of his former self till he got out side of shouting distance from Reid.

I'm against the Alex move...what exactly are you asking me?

Which NFL people? I'm not talking about media types like Peter King and so forth. Which NFL GM's and head coaches (besides those in NE that were hyping him for a draft choice) thought he was worth a $63 million dollar contract? And whoever they may have been, I hope they've since been fired.

FWIW, I just went back nine pages on Google and the only people that praised this trade were, you guessed it, Boston and New England media.

CP > draft experts & GMs that were bitching about Geno for the last 3 months

The Vikings were interested.

And it's not so much about the contract.....it was about the trade.

Wasn't Denver a player in the Cassel, and I use this term lightly, sweepstakes? McDanniels ticked Cutler off so bad he was traded to Chicago.

I kind of remember Zygi Wolf stating some interest but they never followed up.

BTW, he's a moron.

http://www.vikingsgab.com/2009/02/16...sted-in-favre/

I didn't say a word about the contract.

All I said was that the NFL saw upside in Cassel...it's true. TB, Minny, Denver and KC all wanted him.

The NFL thought Cassel had an upside too, and sold that shit


The people that are stoked and say that 17 td and 5 int or 13 td and 5 int is somehow something that we should be jumping for joy over is amazing...

How is 175 yards per game and 1 td going to take this team anywhere?

how is that different from cassel, in all seriousness?

Bullshit.

McDaniels and Pioli were the only true suitors of Cassel and can you guess why?

This X Eleventy to the Billionth Power. And why I trust the CP process over ANY slapdick GM or media hack. Doubters; go **** yourselves none too gently.
Posted via Mobile Device

ACCORDING TO DANE MCCLOUD there were only two people in the NFL that thought Cassel had upside.

ROFL

I can post lots and lots of reports than Minnesota and Tampa wanted Cassel...but I don't have to because anyone with a brain can use google.

Then post ONE of each.

Oh shut the **** up.

He's Graham Harrell right now. Nobody ****ing knows what he is. He's a ****ing mystery box. That's what we were bidding on. A goddamn mystery box.

If we win the lottery, he's another Drew Brees. If we're moderately lucky, he'll be Matt Flynn. But more than likely, Chase Daniel type QBs wind up being career backups, where they hope and pray that they never get exposed as the Curtis Painter/Tyler Palko types that they really are.

I'm hoping and praying we're lucky this time, because with Alex's injury history, Daniel is probably going to see some playing time this year.

No.

You have PROVEN over the last month or so that you are no longer capable of having regular discussions like we used to.

I could post a hundred reports and all you would say is "that reporter is junk" or "I know bob Sacamano and he said this never happened"

What's the point?

You have your thoughts cemented and it doesn't matter what anyone else presents as evidence.

I'm not gonna waste my time.

Crowdsourcing is the new Moneyball.

Nice.

So, you throw a bunch of shit out there, and guys like me, Keg and Mr. Awesome refute it with links.

Then you throw even MORE shit out there, say you can back it up, but can't.

LMAO

Just stop.

There it is. For a team like the Jets or Eagles or Redskins if they were in our position, QB at #1 would absolutely have to still be considered.

But the Kansas City Chiefs don't work that way. It's not in their DNA for some reason. Don't know if that's a Hunt thing or that they just unluckily happen to hire guys all the time who don't believe in investing at the QB position.

CP > draft experts & GMs that now agree with CP, that geno is top 5+

There were five teams as rumored suitors for Cassel in the 2009 offseason.

I brought it up already....but what if the Texans were in our spot? Who would they take? I bet everyone would mock them Geno because Matt Schaub is average and they would be looking for the future. Nope...not the Chiefs though.

not only that but after the chiefs announced their deal, there were articles on major publications implying the deal was way too good for the Chiefs , almost like ***** had some sort of scheme or inside advantage

Right. One of them was by a NE blogger that claimed TB would give up their first in 2010 and a second in 2009. Denver was obviously in, as was KC. Minnesota was talked about but never really showed any interest.

I don't recall the fifth team but other than Denver and KC, there was no real, true interest.

If Tampa Bay offered a first and second rounder, Belichick would have taken that in a heartbeat.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3942130

Yeah, that was ESPN.

They often provide brilliant analysis.

No no no no.

There were only two guys that thought Assel had upside.

Josh McDaniels and Scott Pioli.

I read that in this very thread.

Associated Press story, not even an ESPN writer.

For all we know, it was ****ing Adam Teicher that wrote that brilliant piece but it was probably Dennis Dillon.

You do understand what the word "Rumor" means, right?

That's because only two people thought Cassel has upside in 2009.

Duh

It was AP actually....but youre right.....everyone But Pioli thought cassel was crap and everyone knew it would fail but the Chiefs

Like I said...

Detroit was team five.

Dane, seriously what is so different about Alex Smith that you are doing a complete 180 degree flip flop?

You are practically the guy that changed my mind about how important the QB position is.....I mean all I ever did was NOT rush to badmouth cassel...i never said anything good about him, and I got labeled a ball washer etc.....and got lectured about game managing QB....

flash forward to 2013, here is a guy i KNOW from watching 1st hand is exactly a game manager and has a majority of the traits YOU hated about cassel......

Please help me understand what you see in Alex smith that is so different than Cassel....That allows you to on one hand totally hate cassel yet on the other hand actually support Alex Smith...

Please

The associated press and ESPN report that "Cassels stock was soaring going into free agency."


But bob sacamano said that never happened.