Now Cooks can't block and has problems with physical CBs.....

That straight up made me not want to draft Marquise Lee anymore, and I've wanted us to get him for years.

Fascinating. I want to go back and watch all the combine WR drills again.

I'm with you. The more I watch this guy, the more I think he is everything we need. Smart, focused, big, fast, strong, and catches the ball away from his body with great (HUGE) hands.

I'm just gonna say it: I want Robert Herron on this team

Might be a repost, but I thought it was a good article.

@HerbieTeope: “It takes two years for a player to get used to this system,” former Eagles WR Todd Pinkston said on Andy Reid’s WCO: http://t.co/KcZe0LusQQ

I should say this came off of a question I asked last night:
@DTLB58: @Jacobs71 If the Chiefs pass on a WR in the 1st rd do you think there will be options in the 3rd that could contribute right away?

@Jacobs71: @DTLB58 @HerbieTeope wrote a great article on how long it takes a WR to learn Reid's system. It would be tough for a rookie.

@Jacobs71: @DTLB58 Most fans would have big expectations and would likely be disappointed. Rookies have to learn nuances of game on top of the system.

So WR is out.

It's gonna be a lineman.

DeSean Jackson and Jeremy Maclin had very nice rookie years. I don't see why a rookie from this class can't do the same

I don't.

But it seems like every drip of information coming from the media is prepping us for something we don't want to happen...

Right now, what we want to happen is either a starting Pro-Bowl level guard (and if you take one in the first round, he better be), a #2/#3 WR from Day 1 who has a legit chance at being the #1 WR in 2/3 years or an impact guy on the defense, who will start right away (like Van Noy or Attaochu.)

Any of those guys are going to help immediately.

Yeah, fans expectations of a 1st round wr would be too high, blah blah blah.


Jacobs is such a toolbag.

He will advocate they take an ol because the learning curve is less, yet the one they took last year sucked shit.

He didn't suck shit. What he didn't do was meet lofty expectations that he would be a stud day 1, which were far from the norm for NFL lineman. He progressed almost weekly, which was a great sign. He also played injured a lot. I'm excited to see what the strength training in the offseason does for him.

People also compare his play to Stephenson's play, which is ****ing stupid given that Stephenson had an extra offseason of strength training and development in the NFL. Stephenson should have looked better than a rookie. Stephenson was a highly touted pick himself, who probably would have went round 1 if he stayed for his senior year.

Adding into all of this is just how spoiled KC fans have been with the tackle position over the years. They've had some very good tackles, never many average guys. I think Fisher is going to be far better than average by year 3.

I think we should all be damn excited about the offensive tackle situation heading into the future because it looks very promising. If the guard situation can be remedied, the Chiefs should boast a stout offensive line.

Edit:

What I'm saying is he didn't look as bad as Black, McIntosh, Carlisle, and so forth. At least he was an actual rookie that showed development. Albert wasn't too stunning his first year either, but at least he didn't get moved clear to the other side of the line.

I didn't set those lofty expectations. The chiefs did wen they took him first overall.

Damn near every chiefs first round pick gets this "your expectations are too high, can't be a stud day 1" crap.

People are ao excited to see the first overall pick in his second year after a year in the weight room. The first ****ing overall pick needed to hit the weight room.

Jesus

FYP.

The expectations of Fisher were right in line with tackles picked around where he was.

It isn't our fault they picked him 1st overall.

I disagree with you both on the expectations, and perhaps that's where we'll ultimately fall (on opposite sides of the fence) on this issue. It is extremely rare for a rookie offensive lineman to be any good, more or less dominant, his rookie year and especially at tackle.

The expectations with Fisher were set to high by fans right out of the gate. The entire process, everyone and their brother that knew anything about football was saying that Fisher had a rare physical skill set and was dominant in his league, but he'll need time to gain strength and adjust to the pro game. The entire thought was that Joeckel was more pro ready than Fisher, but Fisher had far superior tools to work with. I blame the fans, not the franchise.

Whether or not each individual here falls into that category of fan or not is a different story, but as a whole, the Chiefs fandom expected more than they should have. What made it worse was that the kid not only had to adjust to the NFL and get stronger, he had to learn how to play the opposite side of the line. If anyone thinks that is easy, well I can speak from experience that it isn't all that easy.

That's my take anyhow. Not bashing any of you for your opinions, but the expectations, to me were far off base of the normal.

Now, on making an immediate impact. I think that pass rushers and running backs make the biggest immediate splashes, but most often it just comes down to who has the core strength to compete right out of the gate. Most of the time, rookies don't have it.

Everyone knew that was a weak draft and that Fisher was going to need time to adjust. JFC Joekel looked worse and Lane Johnson struggled as well.

Will you ****ing knee jerkers get a grip already? The guy was hurt and played a new position at a much harder talent pool than the ****ing MAC conference.
Let's see what he does this year after a REAL offseason of training and experience.

Hell why is nobody bringing Tavon Austin up? That guy was wanted by several people here yet he didn't do shit outside of 2 games.

This is about player development, which takes more than 1 year.

Weak draft. Horseshit.

Hy is it knee jerk to say the guy sucked? He did. We all saw it. Is it knee jerk to say the chiefs took a player first overall that needed to hit the weight room?

I don't give a shit about Tavon Austin. Would you rather talk about the guy I wanted the chiefs to pick? The defensive rookie if the year who plays a position we are now "hoping" we can get by with?

I swear, it physically hurts some if you guys when people say bad things about the chiefs when they make bad moves.

This same "can't be good in his first year" crap was/is said about dl the chiefs take all the time.

Yet dl around the league come in and play well (win rookie of te year).

And it's ****ing reeruned to say that Fisher was in anywhere near as good of a position to succeed as Sheldon Richardson. That DL was already very good when he got there.
He didn't have to learn to play on the complete opposite side he has always played on. He didn't have to play next to a failed G who got benched. He didn't have to go through injuries.

From the moment Eric Fisher was drafted anyone who follows this team knew he was taken on his incredible ability. Nobody said he was going to be an insanely talented player year 1 like Matt Kalil. Hell none of the other 2 OT's drafted early did shit either. Should they be cut too?

For crying out loud man. You saying a rookie is a bad movie after 1 goddamn year in general is pure idiocy. It's even more reeruned when you realize the guy is playing his natural position on the left side in year 2.

Give it at least this season to see how he's doing. Christ.

This rookie was taken first overall. Not in the third round, he was hailed by the chiefs as the best player in the draft.

You keep bringing up other players, they don't matter.

The guy failed at playing rt, but we are supposed to think hell magically improve at lt?

No, no, no ****ing no.

It is NOT unrealistic to expect the FIRST OVERALL pick to be better than Fisher was.

Forget dominant, he was flat out TERRIBLE at times. TERRIBLE.

He played LT in college. Switching to RT is like a left handed batter switching to the right side. It's not easy, especially for a rookie.

This year we'll find out what Fisher will do. But for now it's pretty ****ing stupid to judge this kid solely on last years circumstance.

If he were getting beat solely because I technique, you'd have a point.

But he was physically overmatched

What else do we have to judge him on?

Up to this point, he hasn't even been a replacement level player. Not that that can't change, but in his first year, he was an injury prone mess.

He does have a full offseason to be in the Chiefs workouts in the weight program this year. I expect a big change in both technique and physicality this fall, regardless of which side he plays on.

Our entire draft class was an injury prone mess, which sucks because only Knile Davis was injury prone in college.

This is the biggest complaint though. We took a guy first overall who wasn't physically able to play at a high level. If it were just a technique thing, you could more easily move past it and look easier.

I think he's got high upside and I'm glad they took him over the others, but there are some pretty big question marks there.

I could be wrong, but didn't Dorsey and Reid both say Joekel was more NFL ready but Fisher had the higher ceiling in the long run?

Yeah.

But I'd imagine he was a little less physical than they thought.

Essentially, we drafted a guy first overall who we hope becomes a good player after spending a year in the weight room. That's not very impressive

:shrug:

He does need to shine this season though! If not, then I agree.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jet...ntry-1.1762830

All the potential WRs that the Chiefs should look at are mentioned here:


USC wide receiver Marqise Lee visiting Jets Sunday and Monday


The Jets will begin a busy week of pre-draft visits by hosting a few of the top wide receivers that could be available when the Jets select at No. 18 next month.
The Daily News has learned that USC’s Marqise Lee will be visiting the Jets Sunday night and Monday.
The News reported last month that high-level Jets personnel held private meetings with Lee before and after his Pro Day in Los Angeles. Lee won the 2012 Biletnikoff Award with a breakout season (1,721 yards, 14 TDs) as a junior before nagging leg injuries led to 791 yards and 4 TDs last season. The 6-0, 195-pound Lee has the run-after-the catch skill set to help replace the void left by Santonio Holmes’ departure.
The News has learned that the Jets will also host other targets this week with the hope of landing a cornerstone player that can be a true No. 1 threat in the league. LSU’s Odell Beckham, Jr., will be visiting Monday night and Tuesday. Oregon State’s Brandin Cooks is also scheduled to come to Florham Park this week.
Texas A&M wideout Mike Evans, regarded as the second best player at his position in the draft, is also visiting Monday. The Jets, however, would have to trade up to have a realistic chance at drafting Evans, who is expected to be a Top 10 pick.
Beckham’s college teammate Jarvis Landry, who is on the Jets’ radar as a possible pick in a later round, is visiting on Monday. Texas Tech tight end Jace Amaro is also slated to come to town this week.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/jet...#ixzz2zXy3JDe5

At this point, I really only have three names I want at WR in the first round...

Watkins, Evans, and Matthews. Maaaaaybe Beckham, but I'm starting to think size is more of an issue than I want it to be.

Beckham's size, or your perceived lack of size with him, isn't an issue. He's got crazy long arms, hands the size of dinner plates and he can jump tall buildings in a single bound.

He's 5'11", 198 lbs., and looks to have plenty of room on his frame.

And he's absolutely sick in terms of route running, high pointing the ball and having pogo sticks for legs to go along with breakaway speed.

That being said, he'll most likely be long gone by the time the Chiefs pick.

However, if you don't think he's the shit after checking out his instagram site, then there may be no hope for you...

http://instagram.com/iam_obj3

I want this dude on the Chiefs something fierce.

I really like Jared Abbrederis, but **** idk if I would touch this kid until the 4th round.

3 or 4 concussions and a slender frame? That doesn't sound good for a slow white boy, along with only 4 reps on the bench.

He's anything but slow with one of the fastest 3-cones in the draft, but the concussions are a concern. Giving what happened with Ryan Swope, a very similar player, I think it is tough to draft Abbrederis very early.

@MoveTheSticks: This draft is ridiculously loaded at WR. I'm watching Coastal Carolina WR Matt Hazel... Size/speed/fluid route runner/strong hands.

Here's hoping we get two (2) WR's outta this draft. :D

updated WR speed score with pro day numbers
Moncrief 117.93
Janis 114.75
Enunwa 114.76
Latimer 114.72
Shaq Evans 113.66
DJ Coles 111.71
Martavis Bryant 110.57
Deon Anthony 110.13
Mike Evans 109.71
Sammy Watkins 109.57
Brandin Cooks 107.53
Jordan Mathews 107.16
Brandon Coleman 104.08
Josh Huff 103.2
Odell beckham 102.82
Davante Adams 102.48

This. I'm absolutely wary about drafting anyone under 6'1 or 6'2 with a draft this deep in receivers. The CURRENT roster already has a 5'11 receiver who runs a 4.27 and a 6'0 receiver who runs a 4.3... both are completely useless overall in the NFL. Spot "contributors" at best. They need to draft a day 1 starter..

FYP

He's got a very low vertical as well.

Guys like Abbrederis and BYU's Cody Hoffman (ultra-productive college receivers who lack the explosiveness/burst to be successful as downfield threats at the next level) are going to be very system dependent at the next level.

By looking and bringing in guys like Avery, Jenkins and Sanders, it doesn't appear that a guy like Abbrederis is on the radar of the Chiefs. They look like they want a guy who has burst and is capable of separation. They've already got "horizontal" type receivers in Bowe and Hemingway, and the tight end position plays to this as well.

I would guess that guys like Beckham, Cooks, Ellington, Herron, Huff, and the like are what they may be looking for.

Bowe creates vertical seperation, not horizontal. That is likely the case with Hemingway as well though he doesnt appear to create any type of seperation.

If Latimer surprisingly goes in the 1st, who do you think will take him? My best guess is the 49ers at 30. They have tons of picks and they did take AJ Jenkins a few years ago, whom many considered a late 2nd to 3rd round pick the year that he came out.

Here's the main reason why I would take Matthews, Allen Robinson, and a few other fringe 1st round WRs over Lee.

http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpres...or-hands-1.gif

He showed the same problem at the combine. It's the real reason why he dropped 12% of his passes last year, not inconsistent QB play.

http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpres...ombinedrop.gif

I'm thinking Carolina, Denver, or San Francisco. I'd think it will be quite late in round 1 if it happens.

I'll tell you what guys. This Jarvis Landry kid looks like Dwayne Bowe with better hands. IMO he is this years Keenan Allen.

Slow 40 or not I'd still take him. He's got nice game speed. He may not be a burner, but damn is he a great possession guy. He does just about everything well.

Really overshadowed by Odell Beckham Jr.

I like Landry too. Just wish he would have tested better. Looks more like a 4.5 guy on tape. If he's there in the 3rd I would take him. He's the best bet to end up being the next Anquan Boldin.

We have that guy on the roster.

His name is Junior Hemingway. Except Junior is bigger and faster.

I'm no fan of Landry, but, come on, get real.

I understand the "what have you done lately for me" concepts and the "newness" of Landry versus the Hemingway you've seen on the Chiefs roster the past couple of seasons (a guy who's a very good special teams player and produces when he's been inserted into the offense), but Hemingway was no slouch in college. I'd say he was every bit as good as Landry and had/has substantially more upside at the next level.

Hemingway Combine:
6'1", 225 lb.
32 1/2" arms
9 5/8" hands
40: 4.53
Vertical: 35.5"
Broad: 124"
Bench: 21 reps
3 Cone: 6.59 seconds
20 Shuttle: 3.98 seconds
60 Shuttle: 11.16 seconds

In his last three years Hemingway averaged 16.8, 18.5 and 20.6 yards per catch.


Landry Combine:
5'11", 205 lb.
31 3/4" arms
10 1/4" hands
40: 4.77
Vertical: 28.5"
Broad: 110"
Bench: 12 reps

In his three years of college, Landry averaged 10.8, 10.2 and 15.5 yards per catch.

Personally, I think that Landry is being severely overrated in this draft, especially considering the talent, production and athletic level that's available at the wide receiver position.

And straight up, I'd take Hemingway over Landry regardless right here, right now.

More on Cody...

http://www.fieldgulls.com/nfl-draft/...report-indiana

Hmm . . . didn't know that he didn't start playing organized football until Junior Year in HS. Gosh damn I wish we had multiple picks in the top 2 rounds.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_...gif?1398281749

Those are some great wheels.

I agree. Missouri FS Braylon Webb does an excellent job of catching Latimer from behind and making a touchdown saving tackle.

Personally, I don't think Latimer fits well with the Chiefs offensive system.

When watching him, the first word that came to my mind was "stiff." He's not very fluid on his breaks (and really doesn't make many breaks anyway as the Hoosier seemed to use him exclusively on deep and fade corner routes because of this). He doesn't create very good separation off the line and doesn't have very good open field agility.

Single speed receiver that doesn't seem to have a great feel for the game.

I think he's getting overvalued because of his strength/straight line speed combination. Teams are looking at his base parameters, his basketball first background and thinking that they can coach him up.

He doesn't have the explosiveness of guys like Watkins, Beckham, Moncrief or Cooks and he doesn't have the instincts/naturalness of a Matthews or Robinson.

I'd easily take Clemson's Martavis Bryant over him. (Yet another guy running a Combine official 4.42 with a 39" vertical at 6'4", 211 lbs. - Jesus this draft is ****ing absolutely loaded with WR's.)

I think that Latimer going to be overdrafted by someone.

Gil Brandt of NFL.com, reports Florida State WR Kelvin Benjamin recently blew off a private workout with an NFL coach who had made a special trip to work him out...Benjamins excuse was that he was too tired.

I've felt he's been overrated by at least 3 rounds through the entire process. He's not very good. He's tall, big whoop. Lot's of tall guys have failed, ask Mr. Baldwin. I don't think Benjamin is as good as Baldwin was coming out, which makes it even more laughable that draft people consider him a 1st round talent.

I think Coleman is every bit as good as Benjamin and he could probably be had in the 4th.

We got another GM that wont listen to his coach?

I think Dorsey is correct on this. The majority of the top wr in the nfl are tall. They can vetically seperate and contest for balls.

I dont think its a simple as size, but likely has to do with explosive ability (the ability to move a lot of weight quickly).

I'm not sold on Cooks becoming the next Steve Smith, but **** this noise about size. Plenty of smaller guys that make it work.

Make it work, sure, if that's all you're looking for in a WR. If you want guys who just "make it work", take them in the 3rd or later rounds, not the 1st or second. That should be reserved for guys who can dominate at all areas of the field.

There's like 4 guys in the entire league that dominate all areas on the field... shitty argument.

You go with your gut and pick the one you think is the best. If you've got a problem with a 5'9 WR making 100+ catches a year because you could have got a 6'4 guy that makes a living on a catch that didn't count then you've got ****ing issues.

reposting since its relevant.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article...d-b286b23bbb55

Size & Speed
https://i.imgur.com/E7qWb3P.png

Here is a list of the top 20 regular season WR of 2013 by receiving yrds:
http://i.imgur.com/UrLOY6S.png

only 4 are under 6' tall. I am sure Dorsey noticed that too.

Calvin Johnson
Andre Johnson
AJ Green
Julio Jones
Brandon Marshall
Alshon Jeffrey
Josh Gordon
Larry Fitzgerald
Dez Bryant
Demaryius Thomas
Vincent Jackson

These guys all have the ability to dominate in the red zone, short, intermediate, or deep because of their size, strength, flexibility, focus, and great catch radius.

Small guys like Desean Jackson and Mike Wallace, who have all of the speed and quickness in the world, might as well not be on the field in the Red Zone. I'd rather have a slower Alshon Jeffrey/Brandon Marshall who can catch everything thrown their way over a tiny guy who would be virtually useless in the red zone and actually limits what you can do down there if they are on the field.

So you'd rather have another Bowe? Worked out well with Baldwin.

Lets not waste any time ****ing around Dorsey. Lets grab Janis in the first round. He's big, fast and has the 2nd highest speed score! Guaranteed lock to dominate!

How many successful WRs out there that were true #1 targets and stood under 5'10", which Brandin Cooks does, in the recent history of the NFL (past 30 years)? Only one I can think of is Steve Smith.

Wes Welker has always had someone better playing around him (Moss, Gronk, Hernandez, D. Thomas, J. Thomas)

Maybe Desean Jackson? He's too inconsistent to be a true #1, IMO. He's either big splash or long stretches of nothing in games. More of a specialist like Mike Wallace.

Now, tell my how many great WRs in the recent history (past 30 years) of the NFL stood at or over 6'1" (my cut off for the #1 WR minimum height)?

Take a guess at which list is a hell of a lot longer.:hmmm:

Who the **** said Cooks was going to be a #1 target? He's a ****ing slot receiver. The Chiefs still have this big guy, maybe you've heard of him, Dwayne Bowe.

I realize, however, that they are a bunch of imbeciles on this board that refuse to believe a guy that put up #1 numbers with absolute shit throwing him the ball is a #1 WR, but this team needs a compliment to Bowe, not another ****ing Bowe. Can you imagine how unbearable it would be if the Chiefs had selected the under 6'1 receiver named Torrey Smith instead of Jonathan Baldwin? OH THE ****ING HORROR!!!!!!!

chiefs already have a bunch of guys that are best suited as slot receivers in AJ Jenkins, Avery, and the canadian dude.

Bowe will be 30 yrs old by the start of the season, and has a cap # of $12 million this yr, and $14 million in 2015. That is a lot for a guy with 673 regular season receiving yrds in 2013.

You just named off a bunch of guys that are best suited on the bench.

And Bowe isn't going anywhere so you might as well get used to him being on the team.

Avery and AJ Jenkins are not going anywhere for 2014 so you might as well get used to them. Its unlikely the chiefs will get better production at the wr position from a rookie in Reid's complicated offense.

Bowe wont go anywhere in 2014, but there is incentive (cap savings) to replace him in 2015 and beyond, if he continues to not live up to his contract.

Bowe will also be on the wrong side of 30, so the time is now to find and develop a #1 wr.

You really think either will be lining up in the slot?

And ya, they are going to cut Bowe for that 3.5M savings... If I'm not mistaken Bowe is fully guaranteed for 2015.

I think Reid will put the best wr on the field and either of those guys could line up in the slot.

chiefs not have much cap room in 2015 as well. That 3.5 million can go toward Houston, Berry, or Poe if Bowe is not living up to his contract.


only 1.75 million of his 2015 pay is guaranteed.

The Big Promise of Brandin Cooks
(highlights of a puff piece)

So he's going to be gone before our pick? Eh.

Still not sold on Cooks. He can be a weapon sure but not convinced as a true #1. Michael Irvin says you can cover the field ever which way but you can't cover a man vertically so.. be wary of little dude receivers. Last time I checked Avery still smokes him in the 40 and he's on the shorter side too at 5'11.

Bowe was used extensively lining up or motioning into the slot for the last few games so they should be looking for a #1 who can play split end or flanker (preferably split end to replace Bowe in base personnel) in the draft, not another option in the slot.

Good thing for the league that you don't often have the need to cover Avery as he voluntarily does that for you.

agree.