heh

(although I'm fuzzy in whether they're (or should I say 'their') pronouns or adjectives)

That's because the military has their own space program.
Nasa is an entertainment vehicle IMO.

That they do. The air force even refers to their own program as the 'largest space program in the world": http://www.airforce.com/careers/deta...ms-operations/

Yeah I agree, but it's fun to think about. Some consider time to be the "4th dimension". So maybe the "aliens" are us from the distant future? Who knows what will be possible hundreds of thousands of years from now. Look at how much we've advanced technologically in just the past 20 years.

Speaking of tech advancements, is it just me or did aviation technology (along with, well, pretty much everything else) really just explode directly after the Roswell incident in 1947? I don't know what to think or believe regarding the UFO stories over the course of history, but it's interesting nonetheless.

I'm as big a UFO buff as anybody, but I think the post WW2 technology explosion had more to do with wartime money going into tech development and then project paperclip.

I do think something happened as Roswell though. I just have no idea what, and expect that I never will. My guess is if we have ever recovered anything extraterrestrial, that we're still struggling to understand/reverse engineer it, which is my pet theory on why there has been and will be no disclosure: nobody would want to acknowledge that the phenomena is real but completely beyond our understanding and control.

Yeah I agree with all of this. I just can't comprehend how a spacecraft could make it from so far away. That doesn't mean it's not possible obviously, since my brain is very limited (even by human being standards in most cases heh)

http://img.pandawhale.com/80350-spac...d-gif-2zfR.png

http://i.imgur.com/w2GOxFN.gif

And if it was a little tiny thing with a couple of ... guys ... in it, that must mean one of two things:

1. There was a big freakin' mother ship coasting around out there somewhere.

or

2. They figured out a way to not worry about distances and times.

Given the ship size in what we hear in pretty much every UFO report, they're not big enough for those ... guys ... to be hanging out for very long. I'm not even sure they're big enough to have bathrooms, assuming that aliens need bathrooms.

Wut?

I have no interest in stupid aliens. If Roswell was true they would have to be reeruned aliens. No thanks we have a bumper crop here.

If what about Roswell is "true"?

As far as possible crashes go, I don't think technological advancement precludes either the possibility of pilot error or of mechanical (or whatever the equivalent to "mechanical" would be for highly-advanced technology) failure. Accidents will always happen. It doesn't require stupidity or reerunation, just an unfortunate sequence of events.

In any case, I don't know what the "true" story of Roswell was. There are any number of possible explanations, ranging from balloons, to US aircraft, to foreign aircraft, to something more exotic, to nothing at all. At the end of the day, I'm not going to make any assumptions because I simply don't have enough information, other than to say something happened there. I believe that's evident from the newspaper and radio reports, as well as the behavior of the Army and later the Air Force. But I have no idea what it was.

And the whole tenor of your post reminds me once again of how I am constantly disappointed by the dismissive attitude that so many scientists have with regards to this subject when they've done absolutely no research into it. Declaring something impossible without actually considering any evidence because it doesn't fit their pre-packaged world view is not science. But it is, unfortunately, reality, and we do, again unfortunately, live in a world where people are much more concerned about tenure and how they're viewed by their peers than they are in giving a legitimate mystery any semblance of honest evaluation.

The UFO research community as a whole has been polluted by crackpots and charlatans (hello Ancient Aliens and Steven Greer) and because of it the subject as a whole, as well as the people who actually do legitimate research into it are lumped in with the people trying to get the space brothers to land and take them away. And because of that, actual scientists who might actually come to some conclusions are left with very few options, basically to either mock the subject, hide any interest they may have from their peers, or be open about it and get labeled a maverick or worse.

It's a real shame, because there have been some very interesting anomalous events happening over the last century (and possibly longer).

Maybe they came from a planet with no wind and had never encountered it or designed for it.

Yet their rocket ships could travel. 6,000,000,000,000,000 miles in a relatively short period of time only to crash here? Bring me the smart aliens I'm sorry.

Shhhhhhh. You're going to upset them!

But there's no wind in space. Wind is a game changer if you're not used to it.

What if they aren't from another star system? What if, say, Earth itself has a history of which we're not aware? What if humanity itself has a history to which we're not aware? What if civilization exists on a recurring cycle, like in Azimov and Silverberg's Nightfall, rising and falling repeatedly over the millennia? What if past human civilizations reached pinnacles even higher than our own, even spread to a degree throughout the solar system, only to destroy itself much like we've seemed intent upon doing for the last century? What if some small remnant has survived over thousands or tens of thousands of years, perhaps continued to advance? Or what if something related to it has survived, something technological or bio-engineered, not human?

There are infinite other alternatives to what something like Roswell could be. It doesn't have to be dumb aliens. Or aliens at all. Yet maybe it could be that, too. Who's to say in a hundred years or a thousand we won't come up with a way to traverse what we see as impossible distances. Or maybe whatever happened there or in other parts of the world where people have reported strange things are part of the closed environmental system here on Earth, events centered around global mechanics we either aren't aware of or don't yet understand. Maybe it really is too far to travel.

That's what makes this a true mystery, not knowing. And the important thing is being open minded or imaginative enough to even ask the question in the first place, the question of what any of the hundreds of inexplicable events in the last century may have been. Maybe we'll never find any answers. And hell, it's easier to just point and laugh, and not even try.

Every planet has wind, every star has wind, every solar system has solar wind. Stupid aliens.

Then everything is a mystery. How do you know you really exist? How do you know this isn't the matrix. It's a mystery. No one knows. How do you know I'm not the frog prince of Kolab connecting to the WWW on a really big antenna.

You know how we know? Because there is 0 evidence to support either possibility. Doesn't mean a negative can be proven but your civilization repeating concept would have left clues somewhere in the evolutionary / fossil record. There is none. So the default position must be until there is some evidence to support said idea it's just that. Some semi-literate person spitballing an idea.

It's not their fault those damn crafts only get 12,000,000,000 miles per gallon. Shoulda got the hybrid over the gas guzzlin SUUFO.

I imagine in 500 years there will be some poor entry level schlub having to go through and categorize conversations on the ancient internet. He'll come across prognostications such as these and chuckle at our primitive ways of thinking and seeing the universe.

I suppose "semi-literate" was your attempt at biting sarcasm, but I don't take that as an insult at all. I find the topic to be fascinating. So I actually have taken the time to read about a variety of fringe subjects, not in place of, but rather in addition to more traditional views regarding science and technology and the world.

I suppose I could have just laughed it all off years ago as tinfoil hat stuff (and honestly a good deal of it is), since it clearly did not fit the pre-packaged views that were programmed into me during my formative years. But I guess about the same time I began to question religion, I began to question what I see as a near mirror to religion in the scientific community. It's conservative, resistant to change, resistant to new ideas, too focused on maintaining the status quo rather than pushing the boundaries of discovery.

Your arbitrary dismissal of things you clearly have no interest in, and thus know very little about, is I think a great example of that. You already know everything there is to know, so why bother asking any questions.

"Heh. They thought Vernon Gholston was a can't-miss pick

As the great scientist Bill Nye said show me the evidence. Show me something concrete, anything that a person could point to as evidence. Not eye witness testimony because honestly eye witness testimony I give almost 0 credence too. Something concrete. I think it was Clinton that opened the files to see what was there and he said there was nothing to Roswell.

Here's the issue for Fermi's paradox, say there are about 300,000,000,000 stars in the Milky Way (the sort of median number). If you had an incredible ship that travels 10-20 light years in a day. Say you had 5 of these exploring the galaxy. How long before one of them would find us? Figuring even that somehow you could go to a couple systems a day and scan the entire system for life on all the 60+ moons of Saturn and all the planets in a half a day, how long would it take?

It would take 30,000,000,000 days to find us if we were the last planet and they did a absolutely perfect job of exploring. So let's look at a half of that figuring on average they should find us in the middle of the bell curve. So 15,000,000,000 days would be the average length of time to find us given 5 space craft that are beyond anything that is possible.

Given these parameters it would take just over 41,000,000 years to find us. That's with a fleet of ships that can each do 20 light years in a day. That's the isolation of space.

They could have dropped a tie rod. You could be the smartest alien in your galaxy, but you still can't steer your spacecraft when you drop a tie rod.

Dinny

I am not saying we are aliens, but we are aliens

Buy me a beer or more and me I can talk about this.

Dave Lane talks all skeptically, but we all know what he's really looking for with that telescope of his. That's just disappointment in his voice right now because he hasn't found any ships yet.

Given the fact that Genesis has only happened once in the existence of our current tree of life in accordance with Darwinism, it's also a possibility that the % of planets it has happened on may not be as high as some believe...if at all.

I agree. If we do find it on Mars it does change the equation though.

Whetever... Seriously think about this subject.

They are among us

I'm not going back 2 days worth of posts to find out, but its surely a fact that I got slammed by a few people for my last entry... but the absolute, unequivocal, 100% truth is that their is enough extremely respected expert testimony on this to convict Gandhi for war crimes.

We're talking about very high ranking defense officials in countries like Belgium, Brazil, Canada and Russia... we're also talking about extremely respected American defense personnel, one of which I'll get to in a minute.

Throw in dozens of astronauts and cosmonauts, air traffic controllers, civilian pilots, astronomers, police, the former head of Project Blue Book Dr. J Allen Hynek and throw in literally 100's of other highly qualified observers through the years.

"Don't give me eyewitness testimony"... get the hell outta here with that shit, does it not matter WHO's testimony we're talking about.

Take for example Col. Charles Halt, base commander for one of the most important American military posts in Europe during the height of the cold war, a nuclear armed post... so this guy wasn't just some jackweed, he has done literally dozens of interviews stating loudly and clearly that Bentwaters was surveilled and otherwise harried over the course of atleast two nights.

Atleast two of his MP's, again, not just some yahoo's, but security clearance verified MP's for a nuclear armed post... approached, walked around and touched a UFO that had landed and even made detailed drawings of the hieroglyphs on its sides.

It was described as a triangle that looked like black glass with glowing red hieroglyphs, that shortly thereafter shot up through the tree's and out of sight right in front of the men.

That's just one of the better of 100's of rock lock, no doubt about it, ET visitations... so yeah, Fermi's Paradox is shit, if anything its a smokescreen to keep people from asking the real questions.

Fermi/know it all brainiacs of CP < Cold War Nuclear Commanders/astronauts/on and on and ooon it goes... I wont be laughed down by anyone on this, the laughs on YOU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I._Halt

What in the world are you babbling about?

Oh man, not you too.

I've always liked you so I'll just let the facts speak for themselves.

I understand the rest of your post, but I'm completely confused about the Gandhi war crimes thing and don't see any other references to Gandhi in the thread. Can you enlighten me?

Midgets.

Don't belittle him just because he is not of your world.

ROFL

I bothered to skim back maybe a page on this and stopped on one of Dave Lanes out of curiosity, he was talking about "don't give me eyewitness testimony, give me proof".

My contention is that there is so much proof wrapped up in eyewitness testimony on this that it could convict a man world renowned for his passivity, of war crimes... apparently it was a weak effort, but my other points stand.

You've already started the Memorial Day drinking huh?

Oh. I was thinking that I'd missed something about Gandhi talking about UFO meetings. I was fooled by a metaphor.

I'm kind of disappointed now. I was thinking maybe that's why he was killed.

LMAO

Noice.

Laugh away, its not even a problem, the jokes on you guys... so glad I don't give a shit about most peoples opinions on the Planet anymore.

Its very freeing, you guys should try it sometime... let me reiterate... "the paradox" is horseshit, ET visitation is an everyday occurrence and the proof is there for anyone with two eyes and an open mind.

Virus, I owe you an apology for the neg rep, your post should've rolled off my back, I'll fix it one of these days when you blow me away with a football take.

The Fermi Paradox - Why we haven't been contacted by aliens
 

It's all good, my brotha.

The pressure is on you now to come up with a good football post.


And what if Gandhi really did know about aliens? It might explain how he managed to accomplish all he did.

TIL paradoxes are SERIOUS BUSINESS.


Have a beer or three, Scott. In fact, I'll have one in your honor this very moment.

LMAO no its not, I was buzzed and expecting a smart alice reply to my post, Virus just happened to be the first so I did the only thing I could...

Its no beef to me, I get that most will never accept the truth, I should've handled it more gracefully.

I remember being very young and my dad talking about when he saw a UFO while in the military. Said he was in his plane when he and the two pilots saw it. It was an orb shape and extremely fast. First it was on their starboard, then shot over to the port side, then straight ahead, and finally took off straight up into the sky. Dad said they all just about shit.

I started having beers at 11am because no work tomorrow PBJ

But I did atleast have a decent breakfast beforehand on the way to my fishing hole at 6:30, a Sonic super burrito with the jalapenos, tomatoes and onions and salsa mmmmmm... the crunches and weight set awaits me tomorrow though.

Did they officially report it?

He said it was viewed while they were in formation, so I assume someone reported it. He never talked about any kind of follow up from that encounter. He just always talked about the crew on his plane going nuts over what they saw.

And I believe it was SOP to report any and all unidentified contacts. Then and now.

There it is again for about the 1001st time, a military pilot with absolutely no reason to lie talking about intelligently controlled craft buzzing and pacing his craft at impossible speeds.

Pilots by nature LOVE to fly and anything that might cause their status to get revoked is avoided like the plague... but sometimes, things are so weird that they cant help but to report them, that's when you know its serious.

A very close uncle of mine retired an Air Force Lt. Col. who was stationed at Malmstrom in Montana the last years of his career (nuclear silos and bombers)... he and several others chased UFO's that were systematically shutting down missile silo's in the area.

I highly doubt your Dad was any more of a bullshitter than my uncle was when it comes to things like this... it not only happened but it was intelligently controlled... accelerating past, diving, pacing, swooping past just out of range etc.

That people believe anything else these days just blows my mind.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

King, you're a moron... if you had bothered to do a little googling before laughing you'd see that.

This is the first one I came across and it wasn't just Montana, it covered 2/3 of the US... the uncle I talk about described atleast bits of it for my Mom when we moved there in the early 80's, so **** you, no seriously.... ***** YOU.

"Mary, we went up after them and couldn't catch 'em no matter how hard we tried... that's about all I'm gonna say on it".

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ci...ument/1975.htm

So your uncle was able to chase beings millions of years more advanced than us? Even with a hemi in his truck, I don't think he'd be able to pull it off. And aliens came here to **** with some missle silos? Were they filming a prank show or something? Just bored?

And if you're going to link something with eye witness reports on it, make sure that all of the reports don't contradict each other...

If it were that numerous it would be easier to know someone who knows someone who had a legit 3rd encounter than playing 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Where does Source Code fit on all this then?

Hemi truck? LMAO you're showing your ass once again... the man earned his fighter pilot stripes over Korea, then went to NG status as light bird in Great Falls, Montana.

A jet pilot, got it, Gilligan?

The UFO's were shutting down the control systems to US nuclear silo's all over the northern US... look it up, I'm not doing your homework for you.

Anyhoo, you have the understanding on this that a five year old has, so just ignore me from here on out on this subject... ok, little buddy?

I still don't think you quite get how fast an Alien ship would be able to go. There would be NO chase.




The fact that you believe this is amazing.

So aliens came millions if not billions of light years just to **** with nuclear silos? Once again, were they bored? Were they teenage aliens out for a joy ride? It makes no sense that they would travel this far in space and the only thing they're doing is ****ing with silos and somehow getting in chases with humans.

How would you know how fast one traveled if it did indeed exist?

The fact that they got to Earth.

Unless they used wormholes or some other spacial drive we can't conceive of yet.

If they do indeed exist maybe the are like biblical men and live several of our life times in years and took a leisurely drive ;)

Bill Nye says since he can't see it, it can't exist.

Heh.

Not to shit all over Bill Nye's intellect, but I wonder what the Bill Nye's of the world 100 years ago would have thought of an electromagnetic train capable of going 1,800 mph?

Yeah, but if they're at a point in their technology that they can create and use wormholes, then it's a safe bet that they are able to travel at speeds we can't even imagine right now. Speeds that would make our modern fighter jets look like sloths.

Do you think they exist? Just curious~

True. I meant to say that is how they traversed all that space to get here.

Think of it as in terms of Star Trek - warp drive and impulse power.

It seems like there would be two fundamentally different means of transportation, one that gets you across the zillions of miles of empty space and the other that gets you around trees and air molecules. The technology of the first one likely wouldn't have much impact on the second one.

Yes.

I still don't think you know squat.

I am not saying king is an alien, but.....he's an alien

In fact all members of the top 101 are

Two things I know for sure:

1) UFO's exist
2)They're fast !



http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=216872

Actually they had even bigger aspirations than that. Now pcs and the internet would have blown them away.

Actual speed will be useless in traversing the vastness of space.

What "we" know about traversing huge distances doesn't mean JACK.

Or, maybe it does... maybe this UFO phenomenon is more of a spiritual, 4th dimension kind of thing?

My bottom line... what "our" science knows is equal to universal whale shit... it sits at the very bottom... the Bill Nyes and Seth Shostaks of the world are straight up paid stooges, even so called believers like Stanton Friedman are disinformation agents.

Giving away just enough to be seen as credible.

My God, if Bob Bigelow and the Skinwalker Ranch isn't enough to convince you... a genuine billionaire space flight champion who owns a world renowned UFO/cattle mutilation/disembodied voices etc property who's just in it for the funz?

Hahaaa the laughs on you, peabrain.

This world is sooo much more than a guy, for instance, like Sagan was willing to admit, the government paid this mans bills to be a shill.

Doesn't matter. If they got here, then their level of technology is FAR, FAR, FAR more advanced than ours. They would still have ships that would make ours look like they were standing still at top speed.