Why did the Chiefs give cassell big money after the Trade its the same thing with Smith they have no idea on how to judge QB talent.

That being said we know Pioli had a hard on for Cassell So is it Reid or Dorsey who has been beating the Alex smith drum in kc ?

I think Dorsey has more sense than Reid, but will acquiesce to his nonsense.

Since Andrew Luck entered the league in 2012, he has 48 interceptions and 7 fumbles, for combined 55 turnovers.

Jay Cutler, in that same span, has 50 interceptions and 7 fumbles, for a combined 57.

Jay Cutler is a veteran. Luck has played three years and is just entering his prime years.

Peyton Manning had 90 turnovers in his four years in the league. Luck would have to throw 38 INT this year to match Peyton's first four years.

The rules have changed (due in large part to Manning's struggles early in his career) since Manning's early years, so different era.

Luck is the same QB now that he was in 2012.

He, in fact, might be worse.

he has regressed each year

people were pretty ****ing gaga over Matt Stafford after his 5000 yard, 40 TD pass year, too ...

the thing is ... Luck turns the ball over WAY too much. I wish he'd have been drafted into the AFC North or NFC West ...

he lucked into the 1 NFL division that afforded his team success because SOMEONE had to win it and now he has parlayed his big time prospect status into people thinking he's among the top 2 or 3 NFL QB's ... when in fact, he's not. He's top 10-ish. Probably 8-13 (just like his QBR has suggested). That's good. I'd take it as a Chiefs fan...

but he's not Tom Brady. He's not Peyton Manning. He's not Aaron Rodgers.

Dude isn't even Tony Romo.

and there is NOTHING I see with him that suggests he's going to stop turning the ball over ...

he has that very same Flacco/Stafford/Cutler appeal to him where, when he's on, he looks about as good as any NFL QB can possibly look ...

the problem is ... he's off, a lot ... and every year he inexplicably loses a few games he has no business losing and you're just like ... "uh, wtf?"

His best play is continuously after he puts his team into a massive hole.

I have absolutely no problems with crowning a guy and also giving a guy the benefit of the doubt after a bad game or two ONCE he deserves the crown ... Luck is still a ways away from that.

Lynch has a 3.5 YPC avg with no TD's and the Seahawks defense has been awful the first 2 weeks.

They are 0-2. Your statement is obviously wrong.

I've been saying this for two years now.

The only reason most finally choose to see it is due to it costing them games...

“[That has] been the case for three years now, hasn’t it?” Pagano asked. “He should be more than comfortable dealing with it.”

Some people have interpreted these comments to be directed at the GM and not Luck. Basically saying, for three years the GM has ignored the OL and Luck should be used to playing behind a shit OL the GM has refused to upgrade.

His stats from last year compared to 2012 are much better. He's already accomplished more than Romo.

stats don't mean jack shit

some day people will realize that

QBR is the best stat we have to determine quality of QB play. Plain and simple. His QBR has regressed, despite the gaudy stats, each year.

if you watch the games, you can see it ... he does remarkable things ... and follows it up with something remarkably stupid

Tom, Peyton and Aaron are elite because they do remarkable things while keeping remarkably stupid to an absolute minimum

I can hit an occasional golf shot like Jason Day ... but I'll hit 5 total ****ing ducks in between every pure shot ... that's why I'm a shit golfer

Andrew Luck and Joe Flacco can look like the best ****ing QB in the world ... and then make a total ****ing Mark Sanchez 2-3 times a game

THAT'S why Andrew Luck isn't elite ... and has yet to be elite in his NFL career.

I'm just here to take the crown off a guy who hasn't earned it yet.

Better playoff record than Manning at this point in his career.

And? Mark Sanchez has plenty of playoff success. What does that mean?

Either way, he's right.

They've consistently put a lower tier offensive line in front of their QB's since Manning. I don't know if it's because they don't think that they need to make that investment due to the QB's purported skill set or what have you, but they have only one first round OL pick in the last 15 drafts and five other OL picks in the second or third round over that same time period. That's completely ignoring the position, regardless if a guy works out or not.

LOL Hootie!

The rules have changed, but 90 turnovers in 4 years was still bad, even back then.
Posted via Mobile Device

The same as Russel Wilson's success. Defense! HA!

Mark Sanchez, like Wilson, had the number one ranked defense in the league behind him. When that defense fell out of the top 5, so did Sanchez.

You're struggling to understand that any QB playing with a top 2 or 3 defense has much less pressure than someone playing with a less than stellar defense.

I'm not struggling to understand anything.

Imagine if Luck doesn't get it together. When Brady retires/declines there will be one great QB in the league. When Rodgers does the same no one will be any good. Who's the next best QBOTF besides Luck?

Maybe the Chiefs will have a chance then if everyone's QB sucks.

Of top 8 QBs on this list, only Luck isn't at the peak or downside of his career: http://sportswire.usatoday.com/2015/...acks-rankings/

That leaves the future looking like Wilson, Luck, Cam, Ryan, Tannehill. Not even remotely in the same class as Brady/Brees/Manning/Rodgers in their prime.

I have never in the history of my 9+ years on this board thought the QB was solely responsible for playoff success.

I do think having a great QB does help you achieve the goal of getting to the playoffs, something you need to do to win Super Bowls.

But once you get to the playoffs, you need too many good bounces to win it all ... the best team seldom ever wins.

New England was the better team in last year's Super Bowl. Seattle still should have stolen that game. And then New England re-stole it. And then Seattle re-stole it until New England really re-stole it.

Joe Flacco made $100M+ because Rahim Moore made the worst play in NFL history. Rahim Moore picks that off, knocks it down, or does anything else ... Flacco gets ousted from Baltimore and Baltimore starts over (something they should have done regardless).

Tony Romo lost a playoff game because he botched a FG snap. That's right. Tony Romo, inexplicably, doubled as the holder for a playoff game in which he started and was the team's most important player. Yeah, very sensible.

Tom Brady had Adam Vinatieri making ridiculous kicks in blizzards to get to Super Bowls...

Peyton Manning had Vanderjagt pushing game winning kicks 50 yards right.

There are 53 players. Of course the QB is the most important one ... but a QB alone doesn't win playoff games. Hell, Malcom Butler made one of the best plays I've ever seen in my life to win a Super Bowl ...

Hilariously, though ...

If Andrew Luck wins a postseason game, that's all him. 100%. But when he loses? Didn't have the cast around him.

Conversely, when guys like Romo, Manning or Wilson win a playoff game ... it's because of their superior supporting cast.

But when they lose?

OMG

CHOKE

!

CHOKE!!!

OMG DID YOU SEE THAT CHOKE!?

That is what I've spent my tenure on this board campaigning against.

I'm so tired of great QB's (Brady, Rodgers) and good QB's (Luck) getting to cash in on every excuse every game they don't play well ... while guys like Romo get ****ing eviscerated.

And yet, two years ago they over came a 28 point deficit at the half to knock us out of the playoffs.

So....

What does that say about us?

When Wilson played horrendously in last year's NFCCG for 3.5 quarters ... the board just lit him up. Lit him up. "see!" "see!" "see!" He sucks!

When Luck played EVEN WORSE (before benching) in the AFCCG ... nothing. Nothing at all. No questions asked.

Wilson/Luck is the new Manning/Brady

Wilson is going to get shit on at every opportunity while Luck will get every single excuse, ever, because he's Andrew Luck, super prospect from Stanford!

this isn't about KC

if you want me to compare their QB to our QB it's laughable ...

Andrew Luck to Alex Smith is like Joe's BBQ to BBQ flavored off brand dog food.

Our secondary is soft, and has been for a while. Maybe things will improve when Sean Smith comes back.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The four QBs at the bottom of the 2015 NFL Total QBR rankings were the No. 1 pick in their respective drafts <a href="http://t.co/KhSSwGW3D9">pic.twitter.com/KhSSwGW3D9</a></p>&mdash; ESPN Stats &amp; Info (@ESPNStatsInfo) <a href="https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/647060449372966912">September 24, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Pretty crazy all of those QB are overall 1st picks in there draft and they are all having a Terrible year smith is the one who should feel most ashamed.

Sure is an odd stat.

Wonder if the bradford trade is going to cost kelly his job ?

lol @ the sheer audacity and stupidity of people here. Ripping Luck after a couple of bad games but will come to defend alex f'n smith with pitchforks and knives.

If Luck is feeling unwanted in Indy, I'm sure Dorsey can arrange something when the time comes.

Luck may be down right now, but I have no doubts whatsoever that between Luck and Smith, one guy has the potential to turn it around.

Hint: It AIN'T Smith.

The rumors are already starting to fire up that the Colts should fire Pagano and hire Jim Harbaugh from Michigan. I'm guessing that won't go away anytime soon.

Wilson gets shit on because you and others hype him up as some great QB when the fact of the matter is, he has been carried to all the success the Seahawks have had.

Look at this:

http://cdn.niketalk.com/f/f4/500x100...26_zEfI70L.png

Slightly different situations with Luck and Wilson wouldn't you say? That's also not even counting the fact that one has a great running game and the other has the worst in the NFL.

Harbaugh could have had an NFL head coaching job if he wanted one. He chose to go back to college coaching. Why would he flip flop so soon? Not even Petrino is capable of turning on the people who hired him THAT fast.

I don't think so either, but apparently it was brought up on some sports radio somewhere today. Complete speculation. Just like Saban leaving, it'll probably always come up. Especially since Harbaugh was a Colt, and coached Andrew Luck before. That part of the job would be appealing.

Luck has to play better. He looks to me (and has for a long time) to be that QB that gives you a lot of bad with all the good, but seems to win so people overlook the bad. Crazy talent to be sure, but has always been error prone.

Hootie's opinions on QBs are fueled by "but you guys were mean to my QB crush that one time!"

By the end of the year he'll be backtracking on this thread just like he had to backtrack on last year's thread suggesting that Rodgers is the most overrated qb in the league.

Not only are his opinions ridiculous, his inability to express his opinions without stomping his feet like a toddler is embarrassing.

College coaches have more control and don't have to play to players egos as much. Not to mention that the talent disparity and less practice time makes scheming easier. You can run your offense year to year without having to change it much unlike the NFL where defenses adapt quickly.

You've been hanging around BEP too much.

Pagano is a terrible coach. Colts should get rid of him.

If they fired him mid season would pep take over as the interm head coach ?

Coach is right. Ball security is job 1 and Luck has been forgetting that. Luck is trying to force wins by going Brett Favre. That is a bad habit to pick up and sticks with you when it gets ingrained. Pagano has to nip that in the bud right now. The coach is dead right and Luck better listen.

I never in my life suggested Rodgers was the most overrated QB in the league ...

I suggested that his greatness is vastly overrated by this board ... since this board bases everything on winning and outside of one postseason stretch he's done nothing but lose big games

any-****ing-thing else?

I love how my words get so twisted.

You people just can't help yourselves, can you?

I read something a week or so ago talking about how NFL scouts/personnel people are concerned that the types of offenses being run at the college level isn't really conducive to helping QBs succeed at the NFL level.

It may be that NFL teams will have to groom and coach them up more htemselves, sort of like how they did in the old days. Problem is now it's WIN OR ELSE, so a guy like Terry Bradshaw would never have the chance to get good.

Part of it is alot of people, both experts and fans, were thinking this was the year Luck would take the BIG LEAP into super-elite status. People had him down for potential MVP and all that.

And people do not like to give up and say they were wrong until there is no choice.

It's early in the season yet. Seahawks were 3-3 last year, and Pats 2-2 coming off a disaster in KC where some were suggesting Brady was done, and a media reporter even asked BB if he was goign to "re-evaluate the quarterback position". There's time for Indy to turn it around. Soft schedule/division will help.

I expect about what we've seen the last few years -- Indy wins the weak AFC south (probably at 10-6 or 11-5), and then wheezes out pretty unimpressively in the playoffs. Pagano gets fired, and then they go from there.

Might be a Manning/Jim Mora redux here in Indyville.

I am not sure what this has to do with my post.

Luck is asked to do so much that he forces alot of stupid decisions because the gm hasn't done dick to make the defense or any other aspect of the team very good.

How many first round picks would you trade for Andrew Luck right now?

For him to be in the chiefs current situation? 3 . Easily.

He'd make them instant contenders

Somewhere between 3 and 5.

3 and I'll throw in Alex Smith.

In before.....

You'd trade 3 1st round picks for Luck but you wouldn't trade 2 for Wilson!?!?!? reeruns! /Hootie.

I'd rather you throw him into a piranha pond.

I'm doing the Colts a favor by giving them a "smart" QB.

If you truly wouldn't trade 2 #1's for Russell Wilson ... Then yes, you're an idiot

Eric Fisher and Dee Ford for Russell Wilson.

Backfire, massively = Sapho.

LMAO

No...I would. I meant for the people who said they wouldn't.

seahawks might give us a 7th for fisher and dee ford :)

Huh?

Alex Smith, a 2nd and Tamba.

Luck having another terrible day 0-3 here we come 2 ints zero touchdowns

Against the ****ing Titans, too.

I've never been more delighted to draft a fantasy football bust. **** the Colts.

This Colts team reminds me of the 04 Chiefs

Who said Mariota was going to suck?

It's more on luck then mariota right now

Didn't say it wasn't, but Mariota is having a nice game and pretty nice season so far.

And I'm pretty sure that there were some people around here that said he was a spread system monkey that was a sure fire ball of suckitude, especially in comparison to the pro style set All-Pro potential of Luck.

There's no doubt about it, something is ****ing with Luck pretty bad right now. He can't even hit three yard dumpoffs.

I hope it's Ebola

They were favored for the super bowl I'm loving this :)

Maybe it's the beard getting in the way of his throwing motion...

http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/Ou...ndrew_Luck.png

QBs can learn to limit turnovers. You can't learn what Luck already brings to the game.

If Luck was a Chief, a grand collective of idiots would be in here, right now, white-knighting his ass from Prairie Village to the Paseo.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Colts?src=hash">#Colts</a>: Chuck Pagano has told people he has doubts he returns to Indy next year. He bet on himself with his contract, must prove-it</p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/648117820866363392">September 27, 2015</a></blockquote>
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I think he is pretty much gone unless the colts get a playoff win.

I think it's pretty clear he wants out. He and the GM don't get along. I read here earlier this week that a lot of people around the league consider the GM the problem and sympathize with Pagano.

They've gotten better every year he's been there despite battling cancer for a portion of his time there.

Wild Card appearance in year one, Divisional Round appearance in year two, and an AFC Championship game appearance in year 3.

I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but he's probably gone barring a Super Bowl win which seems unlikely at this point.

not everything is about Alex Smith

Andrew Luck >>>>> Alex Smith

now that we're past that ... if the Chiefs had won the Luck lottery and his play on the field with KC is what it is over in Indy I would be grossly disappointed

nothing I have seen with Andrew Luck, thus far, has shown me he's the next great NFL HOF QB

He's solid ... but he's more Philip Rivers / Eli Manning tier than Peyton Manning / Tom Brady tier.

He has not lived up to his billing in any way, shape, or form [thus far].

But yes, he does have all of the talent in the world ... but so do a lot of guys. I just don't make excuses for poor play.

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/writer...m-chuck-pagano

Rumors going around he has/never had control of who gets hired on as his staff if pag does get fired and Griggs stays I can see it being another Scott pioli situation where no coach will want to come work under him and they get stuck with Hamilton as there headcoach

Luck needs to get out of that shithole.