I don't think it's simply the act, but the way the act has been covered.

While I don't have a problem with Kaep being a ****ing moron (and I could go on about why I think so) I think it's obnoxious how everyone is treating a brain dead silver spoon idiot who burps out bumper sticker slogans like he's Mohammad Ali protesting Vietnam.

Under the current rules, if the player catches the ball while going to the ground, they have to maintain control even after they hit the ground regardless of whether they have gone out of bounds or are in the endzone.

In your example, I don't think you could run that far and still be considered going to the ground. Although I don't want to pretend that I know how long somebody could be stumbling along and still be considered going to the ground. But Kelce was going to the ground.

On a different note: as I commented in the other thread, I think the NFL should tweak the rule so that control, two feet down, and then touching out of bounds is a catch (same with endzone) and you no longer need control so Kelce would have been a catch.

It will be interesting to see how history remembers Kaepernick. Ali was once the most hated person in America.

(Cue "You're comparing Kaepernick to Ali" posts in T-minus five)

I bet you if the NFL put all the games on the internet for free with no blackout restrictions, it would triple in popularity.

CBS, FOX, ESPN, and NBC won't have any of that for now, but I'll be interested to see how the NFL goes about integrating more games for free onto the internet when those contracts are up.

FREE?

Free equals zero revenues, which means the salary cap will decrease, players with options in baseball and basketball will turn to other sports and the league will fade away.

nailed it, I haven't watched other teams in years. Kaepernick deal did piss me off though, Trump was right again.

Thanks, makes sense.

Still disagree with the call, but I'm a Chiefs fan..

There's no such thing as a free lunch, right?

Ad revenue will still be there, it's not like you can't advertise on the internet.

The more people that you have watch, the more money you make, so opening yourself to a wider audience can only help.

You can watch games for Free on CBS, NBC and FOX already, it's not like it's that earth-shattering, what I'm suggesting.

I can understand the argument for getting rid of it. Overall I like it but it definitely has tradeoffs.

You're doing a good thing

Until they make PI calls reviewable ..at least over 20 yards or late in games, then there will always be people skeptical of fixing games. The NFL has never provided a suitable response to why a game-changing "judgement" penalty resulting in 40-50 yards cant be reviewed. Block in the back calls on returns should be reviewable too...

All ****ing penalties are "judgement" calls...

If you put all of the games on the internet, the NFL isn't getting $1 billion from Direct TV per year, they're not getting $2 billion per year from ABC/Disney for Monday Night Football nor are they getting an additional $500 million for Thursday night football.

It's overexposed as it is and putting games on the internet for free would dilute the product further.

I will pinpoint the most accurate time of death:

When they fined Harris and he said "**** this shit, maybe I just won't ****ing play anymore".

Yep, that was it.

As for Replay, I'm at the point where I believe it should be used for scoring plays only.

Stop the ridiculous overturning of catches.

The most popular video games in the world are free, and they also make the most money by far.

It's a new world out there. I could be wrong, sure, but in 10 years, Cable could be dead for all we know.

If the NBA beats out the NFL to widespread, free, internet streaming...then RIP NFL being the king.

The turn off grows....NFL will soon make a choice. Fans? Loon Players? Who writes the checks?

Do you get a Google Alert every time someone mentions the Patriots cheating so you can log in and do damage control?

Prime time sucks because most of the prime time matchups this year have been terrible....like the Titans v. Jags......or the constant NFC v. NFC, particularly east coast teams.

It gets old

I agree with the catches but scoring only? No. The Refs suck too much for that.

I'd rather put the game in the hands of the refs, especially when they call a catch, a catch, than turning over the calls to a New York "Czar" that's more concerned with the Point Spread than the game itself.

Though there are many reasons for my now almost non-interest in the NFL, this is #1 for me. Yes, all penalties are judgement calls, and that I am very confident is by design. Flags determine the outcome of the games, and certain calls can be made on virtually any play, holding for example. There is too much (Vegas)$ at stake to leave the outcome of the games to chance or the players hands, best to leave that to the independent contractor referees hands.


The NFL is just the WWE for adults...

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Yeah, now that it's "there", it isn't likely going to change

The minute they made players wear pants, the sport was toast.

BINGO! to everything you wrote.

I would also like to add Free Agency, as well. I came up during a time when "teams" kept players forever (or at least as long as they could) and they became a part of that city.

Those days are gone forever and so is "loyalty" to a certain team or city. So, rather than watching "our guys" - we watch players that are millionaires who move from team to team to team - not saying that that is necessarily a bad thing (for the players) but it does seem to take away from the idea of "team".

I agree with this, even if replay gets it right on Turnovers and Catches lets not pretend that the plethora of penalties and instances that cant be reviewed aren't just as impacting on the game. Defensive PI and Holding call in key situations are just a powerful as Turnovers and catches.

I don't think it will be interesting. It will be predictable.

Nobody will remember him.

Don't get me wrong, it's a fair point to bring up that Ali was largely reviled for his actions. He also had to face real consequences for his actions. Ali didn't just say things. He went to prison. He stood on his convictions knowing he would go to prison. He did that at the height of a very successful career, and was willing to sacrifice it. THAT is why he's remembered differently now.

Kaepernick is just grandstanding. He risked nothing. His career was spiraling down a drain. Benched for Blaine Gabbert. Yikes.

This. Context is everything.

Try putting decent games on in primetime and the ratings will improve. Assuming we're not talking the 4th New York/Washington/Dallas area games of the month.

Ali was convicted and sentenced to 5 years in prison but never spent a day inside while his conviction was in the appeal process.

Between the neutering of the defense and the social crap I'm nearly finished with the league.

If an offense can put up 35 points on a defense that is actually allowed to play defense that is great. If you have bend the rules in favor of the offense it loses its appeal.

Wether it is Kap sitting through the anthem or St. Louis players running onto the field in the false "hands up don't shoot" narrative or Costas spewing his take on the gun issue, I just have no desire to see or hear about it during the game. For me sports is an escape FROM all of the problems in the real world. It's my opportunity to take a small break from all of it. It had become less and less of a break. And I doubt I am the only one who feels this way.

I feel like I no longer "know" what a catch is.

Based on my 25 years of watching football, I would have thought Kelce's play this past weekend was a "catch" as he maintained control of the ball until he was out of bounds.

This "going to the ground" BS wouldn't apply, as he wasn't diving to make a catch, while maintaining control, in bounds.

Do I stand alone?

The catch or no catch thing is such a joke.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope, I had to ask and have it clarified. Evidently it has to do with running East/West and being near the sideline when you make the catch.

I'm thrilled I got to coach kids at hockey practice tonight. Not just because it's awesome, but because tonight's NFL match SUCKS...

I stand corrected.

I do not think it changes the essence of what I'm saying, but I appreciate the correction.

The inconsistent handling of the rules is the majority of the problem. And that's mostly Goodell. He has WAY more power than any commissioner dictating punishments. And he's the one who led the charge on "protecting the shield." His botched handling of Ray Rice/AP created the domestic violence PR crisis. His insistence on making it the "no fun league" leads to overflagging in games. His ridiculously unfair and inconsistent enforcement of rules has led to pissed off fans, like in New England, who are rightfully pissed about the handling of Deflategate.

Goodell is supposed to represent all owners. His decision to let Robert Kraft run the NFL, when there are 31 other owners out there, is terrible and ties in big time to the ridiculous focus on "the shield." Also, Goodell is a marketing guy. The owners have to agree to dumb ideas, but don't discount that many of those dumb ideas were Goodell's brain child.

On the player safety issue, the NFL has band-aided the settlement for years. It's well known the NFL covered this up for years and the NFLPA knows it. That's not just on Goodell. That started with Tagliabue. Until they put this to rest, they negotiate player safety from a position of weakness, not of strength.

-Fire Goodell
-New commissioner follows consistent punishment system "by the book"
-New commissioner leads charge to reduce disruptive flags especially subjective ones like taunting, celebration, etc...
-New commissioner competently handles off the field distractions PR wise

What a commissioner can lead but must get owner cooperation:
-Limit Thursday Night Football. It's terrible for player safety and it's media overload for fans
-Get creative with media agreements to offer more fans more streaming options

NFLPA must also get serious about player safety especially allowing more offseason conditioning. Too many injuries is a big reason for shitty ratings.

Implementing some of these changes would go a long way in earning fans back.

I'll say it: The black lives matter agenda's getting thrown all around the league right now are annoying and it's bullsht. I don't watch football to get political. And it's a cumulative effect. Overly complicated rules, hours of commercials, flagging the defense for playing defense and what really feels like biased (I'm a redskins fan) officiating + bullshit identity politics = no more for me.

Zilla...the Pats got off with a slap in the wrist for what cheating accomplished for that fraud franchise. The League Destroying evidence and trying to sweep it under the rug didn't work, so they had to do act tough suspending Golden Boy. (Que the summoming of Asterix whining) That fanbase can piss the **** off as they are one of the privleged special teams thar gets every call their way.

And I'm not so sure it ends at Vegas anymore i.e. Fanduel and DK,sure I've won a few bucks playing but of all the people I know who play no one has ever won the thousands or millions that they like to advertise.

While we're on this subject I'd like to also point out the concussion protocol as IMO what a way to steer a game to a desired outcome.KC's play-off game against Indy is a perfect example and that NFL doctor can be every bit as menacing as that New York "Czar" when making a decision.

I quit fanduel once i saw the guy win the million with Big Ben at QB who turned in the highest pt total....he was hurt and wasn't supposed to play that week until Jones got injured mid game. Wasn't the first time something similar to that happened. Joke of a site.

That happened when we were doing the CP experiment,very shady to say the least.

Cheatriots "fans" are only mad because they're delusional. And because even though all their teams have been winning consistently for the past 15 years, they don't want to let go of the "woe-is-us," "us against the world" mentality they had when all their teams sucked.

The Patsies got caught cheating again. They got slapped on the wrist again. So they got fined, had to give up a draft pick and Brady got to take four games off to rest. Big freaking whoop! That's seen as the cost of doing business in Foxboro. Bob Kraft's still the owner, Belicheat's still the coach, the fraudulent banners are still hanging at Gillette. The league has never hit them where it hurts and given them an incentive to stop cheating.

Pats fans are the last people who should ever whine about the league that gives them every call and lets them cheat.

It's true. I have always said that if you went hypothetical and made the NFL a 162 game season, and made baseball a 16 game season, the intensity would flip on it's head. Certainly there are things about football that make it great. But the format of 1 epic day a week, for only 16 weeks, makes a great gathering and talking point.

To me it was/is the single greatest thing the NFL had going for itself.

Lots of great posts in this thread. I posted this in the Alex Smith Purgatory thread. It's an adequate summation of where I am. Bolded the TL;DR part.

Bottom line it is a cumulative effect of all the shit posted in the thread. Lots of it I had forgot about - like the Costas gun thing (**** that guy seriously), incapacity to determine catches, etc.

Every time some stupid shit like some game getting crazy calls for a certain team to win, or cover or some shit, dumbass discipline/non-discipline shit, collecting money from military for the appreciation days, ****ing off breast cancer money, or whatever other blatant sellout of the game for revenue dollars just knocks another chunk out of the credibility of the league. There isn't one big thing that wrecks the league, but eventually the foundation of credibility the game of football stood on is pissed away by these golden goose killing mother****ers.

When the credibility is gone, it is almost impossible to be engaged in, so that leads to guys like me getting tired of the shit and tuning out.

:clap:

man, it would be cool to share a brew with you.

Yep...and the core of the appeal is fair, human competition. You start jacking with the very foundation of why anyone cares about it...and it will crumble.

NFL and Vegas have over-played their hand..thinking the "unwashed" populace is too stupid to notice the sham.

Most of You guys are knocking it outta the park. Still laughing at the clowns thking the Pats have a right to be mad though ROFL fuuuu******* that.

No..the NFL had to cover it's tracks. Did you notice the Saints coach leading the charge to have full-time officials?

I didn't see the Raiders/Bucs game but heard another 4th down PI decided the game...NFL wants a team in Vegas BAD.

That's two games by the Raiders decided on 4th down PI calls...they would be 4-4 and losing public stadium financing (fleecing) momentum without it.

This unwarranted 7-9 team "hype" started in the off-season... it was a universal, NFL corporate directed, narrative that the talking head pundits parroted...now we are seeing it play out...and the motive.

Watching the game now? This is one of the reasons. That was absolute horse $h1t.

LOL, I forget there was MNF... LOL, just LOL!

you know,
I have a PC, or a console, or a phone and I can play any game I want on it
I love watching the chiefs play, but my gawd I swear I ****ing hate end around and bubble screens
a good D, and these guys are at least good, shut down by rules that favor the O


and then there is the fact that these guys are risking their lives every play

has it always been like this?

yeah probably

this shit is turning people off

I got no solution

just like muscle cars the nfl will go away or be nothing we want anymore

We have the technology to take human error out of football, yet we still have these zebras on the field making terrible judgement calls that realistically a human eye can't call in real time.

The amount of wrong PI calls that affect the outcome of a game, and the importance of over-officiating on unsportsman-like conduct for celebrations are drastically removing my interest from the NFL.

Let the players have fun, and start using technology.... watch the NFL become better.

There's an injury on every other play now it seems. And I don't know the numbers but it seems the amount of ACL tears in the league are way way higher than they used to be.

This started the beginning of the end....

Catches the ball....
Shows possession....
Butt hits the ground in bounds....
Still has control......

Play is over right there. Down by contact; Touchdown

But no...somehow Johnson was to maintain possession after he was down....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/N83jLhwHME4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Um, what? Have you seen the number of Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers on the road in the last decade? Those are just reborn muscle cars. They may have been gone for a while but they have come back big time (they are even going to start producing Dodge Cudas next year (disgusting, those were Plymouths!)).

lol wut

I've been watching the NFL my whole damn life and it feels different to me lately. The past 5 ish years many games have felt "scripted" and there have been so many clutch or magical moments that now when you see them, it feels almost normal. I would love to see statistics of how many of these "magical, low-percentage moments/comebacks, etc." have happened in comparison to the early 00's.

It's ridiculous and ever since the chiefs blowing 38-10 lead with Luck as the up and comer NFL marketing QBOTF making "history", then when Seattle threw the ball on the one yard line with Lynch and the subsequent interception it's felt phony as shit, then the Manning Super Bowl with Cam staring at his fumble and then after Manning's product placement just pissed me off and made me realize how terrible this shit is.

How many times does a team get to a big lead only for the team that is getting completely smacked around all of a sudden run down the field in 10 minutes to get like 17 points and make it a game? It's suspicious as hell. It never used to be like this. Sure there were momentum swings but how many coincidences can happen week in and week out? Coincidences don't feel like coincidences anymore...

It's become more of a product than a sport. This topic trigged me...

I don't think it's coincidences as much as it is player safety is so bad right now that it's making survival in games a game of chance.

It's no longer about the best teams slugging it out. These days, it's about if your team is lucky enough not to get slugged by the injury bug. The Indy game swung wide open because of injuries. We lost Jamaal Charles, flowers, knile Davis in mid game after Houston and Hali were already playing at 75%. The next year, we play without Maclin and Houston. It's such a shitty way to lose. I get dealing with a few injuries here or there. But this is just getting nuts. The problem is... How exactly do you fix this?

I don't buy into rigging games. But I would agree that there is also way too much subjectivity in officiating that bad officiating swings games in unprecedented ways.

You think a computer is going to be able to make a PI call automatically? I'm not seeing that any time soon.

You might be able to automate forward progress/breaking the goal line and things like that.

Or do you want every pass play to be reviewed by humans?

I'm saying we need to have headsets from the replay booth DIRECTLY to the officials on the field.
Think about how fast the replay booth is displaying the correct call on the giant TV's in the stadium for the entire fanbase to disagree with... only for the play to not be challengable.

leading to...

Teams should be able to challenge any call on the field they want, to a limited amount of times. A Pass Interference call should be review-able. (Bill Belechik has been vocal about this)



Getting multiple calls WRONG per game is not making the game better.

Dude. You're off base. I've posted all this before.

Remote sensing is ****ing cake, man. I have a decade old combine and it can count how many seeds per minute are being lost out the sieves or cleaning shoe, it constantly measures how many RPM each chain and belt shiv is turning (there are shitload), it measures how many pounds per second of grain is flowing into the grain tank - calculate variables of speed, GPS position, Overlap, header width, commodity weight - to produce a real time yield/acre at any given point in the field along with moisture samples every 15 seconds, it constantly measures the pressure at each injector, turbocharger pressures and blade positions, measures the density of the material in the return elevator, along with a whole mess of shit that I don't know what means.

I can remotely tell where my pivots are, the pressure at both ends, as well as the technology to speed up and slow down an electric motor (via frequency drive - I'm not smart enough to do the engineering enough to explain that one) to match pressures on the fly.

In the cab, I can know if my planter is dropping singluated seeds or doubles to give me real time population and singulation information. The rate monitor calculates shaft speed, compares it to GPS or radar speed, as well as plate size, to automatically increase or decrease planter drive speed to achieve required population. It can measure row unit downpressure and automatically adjust pneumatic pressures to achieve a predetermined downpressure as soil conditions change through the field.

My air drill has blockage monitors on every row to give me real time indicatiors from every row.

I have a closed system chemical meter that automatically meters chemical to .01% accuracy despite widely varying liquid densities.

Neighbors of mine have soil probes that remotely tell them in real time the saturation of water in the soil. Without moving from their desk

And I'm a shit poor dirt farmer.

The technology is there. It's reliable. It's cheap. It's tiny. It's all integratable.

If I can; 1. afford it, 2. use it effectively, there is no reason the bottomless pockets of the NFL can't.

One thing I know for sure is that losing a challenge for being correct is insane. Even with earning one back if you are correct twice, it's crazy.

I don't watch a ton of college ball, but when I do, they seem to have a better system. They would huddle up for big calls that they soon learn are questionable, and then generally, correct the call in a reasonable amount of time.

.. and doesn't it seem like many of these refs are really ****ing old? Most old people I know can't see very well.. and their processes have become slow.

I would agree. You wouldn't even have to do it for everything. Even just doing it his for the ball crossing the goal line which would be incredibly easy to do it your way and would save tons of time.

But it doesn't solve the problem of the rules committee forcing way too many nonsense rules based on opinion. Stupid rules like taunting are introducing a shit load of human element into officiating

Games aren't "rigged", but outcomes absolutely are nudged towards a certain direction...and i don't mean a light nudge. Pay attention to betting lines folks.

This all started to protect Manning and Brady then it just snowballed like an unstoppable rebel force.

The Broncos killed the NFL ROFL poor knowno

Pete Rose should be in the MLB HOF

I am pretty sure he will the year after he dies.

That's really kind of ****ed up if baseball does that to him.

Coming from first hand knowledge, he is kind of a dick.

Tell us your story.

Not my story. My Grandma went to high school with him in Hamilton County, OH. Said he was an arrogant jerk even then.

Damn, he seemed so cool in the Fox broadcast.

:(

Maybe he could bludgeon Joe Buck a couple of times

He was the only Red she didn't like. Loved Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench, etc.

No, he shouldn't be.

Oh yeah wouldn't want him to be the only corrupt member?