Fixed your post for ya.....My boss said, "you're liberal and you DON"T support gun control???" I said....absolutely.

He reminds me of Diane Fineswine when she debated gun control out here on TV. She was practically in tears after they decimated her with government statistics. All she could say was "let's just try it" It was one of the most pathetic attempts I have ever seen a politician make at debating a subject. It doesn't hold water but they don't care. It doesn't make our nation safer on many levels but that doesn't matter they will preach that anyway.

To bring this full circle of all the things I have exposed about Hamas in this thread from guns to his support of the run and snitch mentality nothing is funnier than his own hypocracy. He doesn't like the religious right using our school system to promote their moral agenda but he has no problem using to push his own.

Actually I am libertarian and have many liberal ideals. It's this element I am talking about within the democratic party that is killing it. It is the Hamas, meme element that continues to push everyone to the right of them giving the right wingers WAY too much power.

If I were going to support my position with statistics....I wouldn't quote the same people repeatedly....kinda stupid.

But MY opinion is mostly that...opinion. I don't like guns around my kids....I wanna hurt someone threatening my family, with my hands...and I like big dogs..... But I also want YOU to have a gun.... It's a constitutional right....and the constitution is what makes this the best country in the world....don't believe it? Drive through Mexico.

BTW...I also believe if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns...is an irrefutable statement.

John Lott - Much of his work has been questioned, and a major review by NAS rejected his thesis on concealed carry. [31] (A minority report disputed this view.) Significant ethical questions have also been raised about his work, but no external professional review has been done

I'm the same way. I feel it's still a right though. I won't have one...I'm scared of how I'll use it, not being trained plus being Sicilian and all. :p

I actually was brassknuckled once in the lobby of my apartment in Boston and I would a never had time to get to a gun even if it was on me. Luckily, I was able to outthink the guy and got away. I went into the heightened state of awareness was very clear thinking and calm for some reason. I was injured but I coulda been dead.

So let me get this straight, he quotes the same source 4 times in a row and it's ok, but I have 3 citations from the same source and that is a damnable offense.

I should also mention that your 2.5 Million DGU's is highly disputed, and widely regarded as trash among all those except gun nuts.

You should also know that I am not for taking away people's guns, because I see them as serving as a de facto method of natural selection. If you have a gun in your home you are far more likely to be killed in a home invasion than someone who is unarmed. That much is clear. If you think that someone with no real self defense training (as most Americans do not) are able to rationally operate a firearm in a moment of extreme stress then you know very very little about the fragility of the human psyche. If you want to own a gun, that's fine with me. I see it as no different than riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

David Hemenway, PhD, Director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, has co-released a study on gun use in the United States in the journal Injury Prevention. Hemenway and his colleagues studied reports of self-defense uses of guns and concluded that guns "are used to threaten and intimidate far more often than they are used in self defense."

In two surveys over a three year period, Hemenway and his colleagues found 152 respondents who reported using a weapon in self defense. The respondents were asked to describe their use of a weapon in self defense. Five criminal court judges, when asked to review these anonymous verbatim descriptions, found that over half were probably illegal. The descriptions included examples of shooting at unarmed strangers who happened to be near a business or property at night, and threatening to shoot someone as a result of a verbal dispute while intoxicated. In addition, one 18 year old male reported six cases, including a "self-defense" use in the course of an argument at a high school.

Hemenway and colleagues also question the accuracy of the rates of self-reported self-defense gun use, because over two thirds (68%) of the self defense gun use incidents from the two surveys were reported by only six respondents.

Hemenway's study calls into question research that is often cited by those who advocate for legalizing concealed carry in Kansas. Concealed-carry advocates often cite a study by Dr. Gary Kleck that argues that guns are used over 2.5 million times per year in self defense. Hemenway's study shows that gun use is often misclassified as defensive and virtuous when objectively it is offensive and illegal. Hemenway's study also pointes out an apparent inflation of the frequency of defensive gun use by a small minority of those surveyed. These two factors contribute significantly to the argument that Kleck's figures are significantly overestimated.


Sorry, but I'll take the Harvard research over the jabroni from Florida State every day of the week.

Of course, since every argument on this site has nothing to do with the merits of the information and everything to do with a referendum on the popularity of the poster, I'll just assume that I got "fucking pwned!! OMFG!!!"

I am glad my dad exposed me as a kid, may have saved my life. Then again I fully respect your right to not expose them.

Defending oneself is a basic human right that eveyone should have and no government should be able to take away. Women are the one's most empowered by this right.

You got owned on many different subjects you refused to address. I posted information from many sources including the Department of Justice all of which you conveniently overlooked and only chose to compare Florida State information to a Harvard guy. I'l spare you the ridiculous jabroni comment.

In your defense the side of the subject you chose in this case is indefensible as are the rest of your positions you chose in this thread.

Just keep ignoring the elephant in the room:

Hemenway's study shows that gun use is often misclassified as defensive and virtuous when objectively it is offensive and illegal. Hemenway's study also pointes out an apparent inflation of the frequency of defensive gun use by a small minority of those surveyed. These two factors contribute significantly to the argument that Kleck's figures are significantly overestimated.

Support of a run and snitch mentality like telling the schools administration that there is a bomb in building which you then laugh off as though it was a Black Cat. You suffer from a serious dose of moral relativism, dude.

Many sources including the DOJ...of which you cited four consecutive times not only from the same source, but from the same PAGE!!. That is anything but a variety. Funny that now that your 2.5 million number which you have used as a crutch through this whole argument is shown to be bullshit, you have nothing to say in defense of it.

An elephant in your eyes. The real Elephant is you ignoring 95% of what I have posted and it's source. Your elephant is all subjective and there is nothing of substance given to back it up at all. All you have to do is look at England or Australia to see what happens when you take them away.

here are some quotes I am sure you will ignore as well

--Adolph Hitler, Edict of March 18, 1938 This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
- Adolph Hitler,


“ Those who trade essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety”
-Benjamin Franklin

And the real reason we will fall eventually and have legislation passed irregardless of the fact that it is not good or popular. This applies on many levels.

The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can bribe
the people with their own money. -- Alexis de Tocqueville