oh and Eli is probably right with, or slightly below that final tier.

Who gives a shit who's better?

Both are sure-fire, stone cold lock 1st ballot HOF'ers.

You're arguing whether $100 in 20's is better than a $100 bill.

Damn, Kyle breaking out the old STL Cardinals history.

and yes, Carson Palmer and Matt Cassel are both in the same tier as Kyle Orton and Jay Cutler...except Cutler probably has the Romo tier potential at least.

Palmer is done. That guy is never going to be the franchise everyone thought he was going to be.

Hootie you are getting kicked around like a soccer ball in this thread~

no there is a big difference...

Peyton would have been 1st ballot on the Chiefs/Colts/Bengals/Texans/Cowboys/any NFL team...

Tom Brady stumbled into the perfect situation...you know...the same team that Matt Cassel led to 11-5 last year...

Jim Sorgi wins 2 games with the Colts last year if Manning blows out his knee week 1 like Brady...instead he wins 12 games with a team that was so inferior I don't even know where to begin...that team was an abortion because of injuries for the first half of last season and they played with a WR that was more washed up than any guy I can ever remember that used to be a star...

care to elaborate? Or are you just playing buddy/buddy with the populars? I'll assume the latter...

One last comment before I leave this beatdown...

Hootie, you're damn good at picking games, and do have decent football smarts at times, but the people that give you a hard time do so because you make shit up to try to prove a point.

If you'd stick to the facts, instead of making shit up to give yourself an opportunity to use "draftubaters" in a post, and take shots at Hamas, Dane, Mecca, etc - this place would be better for it.

Example:

You saying I pissed all over the game thread.

Again, I called it as I saw it. Which means there was some pissing. And it was deserved. But I was right there rooting for the win, and giving praise to the players that deserved it.

So, there's a huge difference, but only because you say so.

You have no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim. It's nothing but opinion.

You have no idea how Manning's career would have turn out had he been drafted elsewhere, you just like to claim he'd still he a lock HOF, and that Brady's career has been nothing but luck because it suits your argument.

well...

Like I said...I read the entire game thread from page 1-30 last night and I felt as if you were not really enjoying the game...just trying to blast Haley/Cassel whenever the opportunity arose...

can I ask you what happens if Castille completes a beautiful TD pass to Cassel?

What about that 3rd and 7 draw play to Charles where he busted a 52 yard run? If they stop him short of the chains...then it becomes a terrrrrrrible playcall according to most.

No one is every going to call the "perfect" game...but I think Haley has potential to be a solid head coach...

I said from day 1 that I was going to keep an open mind all season long and at least give the new regime a year before I started getting antsy/critical...

We'll see what happens in 2010...but as for 2009...perfect way/perfect game to end an overall shitty/unsatisfactory season.

At least it gives me a hint of optimism.

and no one knows that the Bulls would have won titles both years Jordan played baseball and could have easily won 9 titles in a row but everyone pretty much assumes that, don't they?

Dude, you know as well as I do that even if that pass is completed, it's a bone-headed call. A FB throwing to a QB? When you have the lead, on the road? In their territory? And you have all the momentum?

It was stupid, and kudos to Haley for saying it was a stupid call. Hopefully he learns from shit like that, and fake punts on 4th and 8 from your own 28 - throwing to your long snapper.

And personally, I think "giving them time" is a cop-out.

Funny how this place almost universally said that Pioli and new coaching along would get them close to .500

How people said, "Atlanta and Miami. Why not us?"

Then backed off and made excuse when it was obvious it wasn't going to happen, and had the gall to blame the old regime for being in that spot - instead of pointing the finger at the guy who brought in 45 stopgaps and no playmakers.

I think had Pioli done something, anything to get excited about, more people would be inclined to believe in this bullshit about it being a "process."

By ****ing up the 2009 offseason, he's extended that process - and it didn't have to be that way.

Yesterday was as fun a game as I've watched in years. And you haven't heard a peep from me about the change in draft position. I enjoyed the hell out of yesterday.

That win does not, however, excuse the shortcomings of the previous 11 months. Huge mistakes were made, and it's going to take an offseason of a lifetime to fix them.

I hope he can do it, but nothing he's shown me makes me think he can.

I hope I'm wrong.

hey you can write them off all you want...

My personal stance all along was to not judge too harshly, if at all, this season.

And that's where I still stand.

Looking forward to this offseason and looking forward to taking Jamaal Charles with my 1st pick in every league next season.

I am not going to get in on this on going debate except to say that I credit Mike Brown with the emergence of Miles Austin.

I'm not writing them off. They just haven't given me any reason to think he can pull off the offseason needed to get this thing back on track.

Question:

IYO, what has Pioli done to give you hope he knocks this offseason out of the park?