ChiefsPlanet
Page 35 of 46 « First 2531323334 35 3637383945 Last »
Show 80 post(s) from this thread on one page

ChiefsPlanet (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Nzoner's Game Room (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Royals 2010 Kansas City Royals Repository thread (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=221199)

KevB 12-05-2010 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7230131)
Why? He isn't a prospect in the way that these other names are. And he's worth a hell of a lot more than guys like Drabek, Arencibia, Perez, and Profar.



From a biased Royals' perspective, I can see how one would say that.

If you look at him, his 2009 season looks entirely like an outlier (2008-4.9 WAR, 2009-9.4 WAR, 2010-5.2 WAR). So we're looking at approximately a 5 WAR pitcher going forward. Very good, but not in the elite in the way that guys like Halladay, Felix, Lee, and Lincecum are.

Then if you compare him to the Jays pitchers:

2010 WAR:
Greinke-5.2 (in 220 IP)
Romero-4.0 (in 210 IP)
Morrow-3.7 (in 146 IP)

Put Romero and Morrow in an easier division like the AL Central against easier competition and the margin there becomes even less.
Would Greinke be your ace, yes or no? How many Cy Young's does the rest of your staff have? From a guy in his mid 20s who's been very durable? Nobody is saying he's Halladay, but on the other hand you're acting as if Snider is the premier OF prospect in baseball.

Additionally, the reason he would likely be included is that the Royals aren't settling for all prospects...they'll need at least one younger guy who is already MLB ready like Snider.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 7230113)
You are acting like 2 years ago was a fluke. If Zack Greinke is a 4 WAR pitcher, then you are right, but he's not, and the Royals/interested teams are not treating him like he is. Maybe a contending team shouldn't count on 9 WAR like 2 years ago, but its clear that Zack gets bored when he has nothing to play for.
For all we know, his 2009 season was a fluke (or outlier, or however you want to term it). Nobody should be paying for that kind of production, because it isn't a reasonable expectation for what he's going to do going forward.

Quote:
2 years ago he was on fire, the royals fell out of contention so Greinke lost interest and piddled around, then near the end when it was clear he had a shot at Cy he was on fire again. Last year the Royals went straight down the chute and Zack piddled around all year for a merely "good" season, but when meaningful games did come around (TB at the end of the year) he turned it on again.

Greinke is an elite pitcher who needs something to play for, and there's no reason why we should have to settle for less than that kind of a haul. If no one wants to pay, then he's still ours until someone is desperate enough to pony up in July. (or we have a fluke good year and he wants to re-sign with us)
I don't buy that pitchers at the major league level can just turn on their games on and off simply at will. I'm surprised that you do. And in particular, I find it to be a very weak excuse for Greinke's "struggles" last year.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevB (Post 7230147)
Would Greinke be your ace, yes or no? How many Cy Young's does the rest of your staff have?
Sure, he would be the ace, but that's not particularly relevant to anything I've stated here. There is no reason to give up a controllable power hitter like Snider for 2 years of Zack Greinke, not when you already have one of the best young rotations in the game as it is.

Quote:
Nobody is saying he's Halladay, but on the other hand you're acting as if Snider is the premier OF prospect in baseball.
Uh...Travis Snider was the premier OF prospect in baseball last season. A .770 OPS season over 300 AB hasn't changed that.

DeezNutz 12-05-2010 08:04 PM
KC Connection is a good poster, but he's getting a little loopy with the Greinke stuff, especially if we're going to make positive comparisons to Morrow, who was, essentially, a first year starter.

I'm not going to try to ascribe a ceiling for this player, but it would be incredibly unlikely for him to be in Greinke territory.

The other important quality about Zack is that he has one of the most fluid, natural deliveries in all of baseball, which is extremely important if you're thinking about the long-term health of a significant investment.

The Royals hold all the cards here, and what the Jays could offer simply isn't enough. Pass.

alnorth 12-05-2010 08:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7230156)
I don't buy that pitchers at the major league level can just turn on their games on and off simply at will. I'm surprised that you do. And in particular, I find it to be a very weak excuse for Greinke's "struggles" last year.
Greinke is the very definition of "not most players". The dude almost quit baseball because he was unhappy with playing. He "struggled" as recently as a few years ago because he became so bored that he started playing around with funny pitches and speeds just to keep himself amused. He's said the most fun he's ever had playing baseball was competing for the Texas League championship in Wichita. The scouts all agree that he has elite stuff, he simply needs to have something to play for.

DeezNutz 12-05-2010 08:09 PM
Oh, and put me down in the camp that does NOT think that Greinke would have problems playing in a large market.

KevB 12-05-2010 08:09 PM
Interesting and related report, Blue Jays reportedly trading Marcum to Brewers for prospects.

tk13 12-05-2010 08:10 PM
Yeah, you can't treat Greinke like a normal pitcher. Which may be a mark against him... but you almost have to experience him to understand how offbeat he can be.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 08:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7230176)
KC Connection is a good poster, but he's getting a little loopy with the Greinke stuff, especially if we're going to make positive comparisons to Morrow, who was, essentially, a first year starter.
Because I don't think Greinke is the same quality as Halladay, Felix, or Lee? I didn't think I was saying anything outrageous there. Greinke's numbers would also take a serious hit if he faced the Yankees, Red Sox, or Rays in half of his starts, which makes the comparison to Romero and Morrow viable.

Quote:
I'm not going to try to ascribe a ceiling for this player, but it would be incredibly unlikely for him to be in Greinke territory.
If we're talking about Snider or even Drabek, I'd say their ceilings are around what Greinke is (5 WAR).

Quote:
The other important quality about Zack is that he has one of the most fluid, natural deliveries in all of baseball, which is extremely important if you're thinking about the long-term health of a significant investment.
Fluid delivery or not, pitchers are pitchers. A vast majority of them are going to get hurt in time.

Quote:
The Royals hold all the cards here, and what the Jays could offer simply isn't enough. Pass.
No doubt, but I see absolutely no justification for the Jays to include a player like Travis Snider in any deal for Greinke. The slight upgrade they'd get from him would be lost immediately from giving up 5 years of an above-average outfielder (and it would hurt even more if Snider reaches his ceiling).

alnorth 12-05-2010 08:11 PM
Very strong rumors are popping up tonight that Toronto is trading away one of their better young pitchers (Shaun Marcum) to the Brewers for some prospects yet to be identified.

Perhaps this is a straight-up trade intended to improve the team in isolation from anything else, or perhaps they are amassing chips to pay us with.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevB (Post 7230205)
Interesting and related report, Blue Jays reportedly trading Marcum to Brewers for prospects.
Yeah, I'd be asking for them to sell high on him for a while. Sounds like a Greinke deal could very well be in the works, then.

doomy3 12-05-2010 08:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevB (Post 7230205)
Interesting and related report, Blue Jays reportedly trading Marcum to Brewers for prospects.
Very interesting...

Shaun Marcum-S- Blue Jays Dec. 5 - 9:01 pm et


The Journal-Sentinel's Tom Haudricourt reports that the Brewers are close to acquiring Shaun Marcum from the Blue Jays for prospects.
Now here's a big surprise. Marcum seemed like one of the Jays' core players after going 13-8 with a 3.64 ERA this season. Perhaps the Jays are grabbing some talent that they'll then use as part of a Zack Greinke trade.
Source: Tom Haudricourt on Twitter
Related: Brewers

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 7230192)
Greinke is the very definition of "not most players". The dude almost quit baseball because he was unhappy with playing. He "struggled" as recently as a few years ago because he became so bored that he started playing around with funny pitches and speeds just to keep himself amused. He's said the most fun he's ever had playing baseball was competing for the Texas League championship in Wichita. The scouts all agree that he has elite stuff, he simply needs to have something to play for.
Yeah, I know he's an odd dude. But I still don't buy that he's a 9 WAR pitcher going forward or that his oddness was the reason for his regression last year.

tk13 12-05-2010 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7230233)
Yeah, I know he's an odd dude. But I still don't buy that he's a 9 WAR pitcher going forward or that his oddness was the reason for his regression last year.
I hate to use the "you just don't get to see the guy" argument... but unless you watch this guy pitch every time out, hear his interviews, and know his history... I think for the most part the baseball community doesn't understand the guy. He is absolutely someone who could be so bored he will start screwing around out there with his offspeed junk one game, flip a switch and throw 8 shutout innings against Tampa Bay the next. It sounds stupid, but it is absolutely true.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tk13 (Post 7230265)
I hate to use the "you just don't get to see the guy" argument... but unless you watch this guy pitch every time out, hear his interviews, and know his history... I think for the most part the baseball community doesn't understand the guy. He is absolutely someone who could be so bored he will start screwing around out there with his offspeed junk one game, flip a switch and throw 8 shutout innings against Tampa Bay the next. It sounds stupid, but it is absolutely true.
I live in Lawrence, have Greinke on my fantasy dynasty team, and watch many of his starts. I know exactly what he's like, and I still don't buy that he can just will himself to become a 9 WAR pitcher.

DeezNutz 12-05-2010 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7230208)
Because I don't think Greinke is the same quality as Halladay, Felix, or Lee? I didn't think I was saying anything outrageous there. Greinke's numbers would also take a serious hit if he faced the Yankees, Red Sox, or Rays in half of his starts, which makes the comparison to Romero and Morrow viable.


If we're talking about Snider or even Drabek, I'd say their ceilings are around what Greinke is (5 WAR).


Fluid delivery or not, pitchers are pitchers. A vast majority of them are going to get hurt in time.


No doubt, but I see absolutely no justification for the Jays to include a player like Travis Snider in any deal for Greinke. The slight upgrade they'd get from him would be lost immediately from giving up 5 years of an above-average outfielder (and it would hurt even more if Snider reaches his ceiling).
Greinke against the AL East in a disinterested '10:

42 2/3 innings pitched.
12 earned runs.

He's a freaking beast. And I don't even want to hear about Drabek. Young pitchers who have undergone TJ's shouldn't even be in the conversation.

While I understand that position players vs. pitchers (in terms of relative value) is helping to shape your argument, we're talking about an "above average" outfielder vs. an "elite" pitcher. Not even close. As others have said, I think Snider is a nice player, but this cannot be one of the key pieces for Greinke.

KevB 12-05-2010 08:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7230233)
Yeah, I know he's an odd dude. But I still don't buy that he's a 9 WAR pitcher going forward or that his oddness was the reason for his regression last year.
I wouldn't necessarily argue that his "oddness" was the reason, but a guy like Grienke going out every 5th day on a team that has no chance to win, with no run support and a bad defense behind him is going to get worn down emotionally. He's shown since he was drafted he's elite. Put him on a good team and I think it would be really fun to watch.

I appreciate your position, and don't totally disagree. For a young up and coming team like the Jays who have rotation options, giving up that amount of young talent would be tough to swallow.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7230275)
Greinke against the AL East in a disinterested '10:
42 2/3 innings pitched.
12 earned runs
Small sample size, and none of those innings were against the Yankees.

Quote:
He's a freaking beast. And I don't even want to hear about Drabek. Young pitchers who have undergone TJ's shouldn't even be in the conversation.
If we're talking ceilings, Drabek can certainly be a 5 WAR pitcher. I said nothing about the likelihood of him reaching that ceiling.

Quote:
While I understand that position players vs. pitchers (in terms of relative value) is helping to shape your argument, we're talking about an "above average" outfielder vs. an "elite" pitcher. Not even close. As others have said, I think Snider is a nice player, but this cannot be one of the key pieces for Greinke.
Snider is a legit MLB player already with the ceiling of an elite player, and he's under control for 5 more years. Why include that in a package for two years of Greinke? If you could get him locked up, then maybe.

alnorth 12-05-2010 08:30 PM
It probably goes without saying, but *if* Toronto is doing this trade to make a Greinke deal happen, then the dominoes are going to fall very quickly. They would have wanted to know from us exactly what we wanted in advance, they wouldn't allow themselves to be stuck with players they were just intending to use for Greinke. If Greinke is not a Blue Jay in the next few days, then this Milwaukee deal had nothing to do with us.

eazyb81 12-05-2010 08:33 PM
I wonder what the Brewers are giving up for Marcum. Their system has taken a hit with graduations in recent years.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 08:34 PM
The Marcum deal, to me, looks like an attempt to save money by the Jays in preparation for the acquisition of somebody else.

alnorth 12-05-2010 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 7230341)
I wonder what the Brewers are giving up for Marcum. Their system has taken a hit with graduations in recent years.
all I've found so far is "it involved minor-league pitching prospects." Brewers fans are nervous because they have a couple gems they dont want to part with lightly.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/111358854.html

eazyb81 12-05-2010 08:51 PM
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-zack-greinke/

Hard ball talk speculates that Toronto would need to give up both Drabek and Snider, plus more, to get Greinke.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 7230439)
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-zack-greinke/

Hard ball talk speculates that Toronto would need to give up both Drabek and Snider, plus more, to get Greinke.
Pouliot has no sources, so he's basing that on nothing at all.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 08:53 PM
Word is that Brett Lawrie is in the Brewers deal, that's all I can find.

eazyb81 12-05-2010 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7230446)
Word is that Brett Lawrie is in the Brewers deal, that's all I can find.
Drabek and Lawrie for Greinke?

alnorth 12-05-2010 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7230444)
Pouliot has no sources, so he's basing that on nothing at all.
There's another thing you need to factor into your cynicism. The law of supply and demand is heavily in the Royals favor. Once you get past Lee, the starting pitcher market is a barren wasteland. If you need another ace, you are going to either Kansas City, Kansas City, or Kansas City. Dayton should absolutely be a hardass this week.

eazyb81 12-05-2010 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7230444)
Pouliot has no sources, so he's basing that on nothing at all.
Sure, it's just speculation, but it is helpful to hear thoughts from non-Royals or Blue Jays fans on Greinke's value.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 09:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 7230471)
There's another thing you need to factor into your cynicism. The law of supply and demand is heavily in the Royals favor. Once you get past Lee, the starting pitcher market is a barren wasteland. If you need another ace, you are going to either Kansas City, Kansas City, or Kansas City. Dayton should absolutely be a hardass this week.
I don't think the Jays need pitching at all, personally. They need offense, and in particular, guys that can get on base.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 7230469)
Drabek and Lawrie for Greinke?
If you're asking me whether I'd make that deal, then yeah, I would. Where would the Royals play Lawrie?

alnorth 12-05-2010 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7230542)
If you're asking me whether I'd make that deal, then yeah, I would. Where would the Royals play Lawrie?
Lawrie doesn't really have a position. Drafted as a catcher, almost immediately moved to second where scouts think his range might be adequate enough to stick. Can probably play first, second, third, or left.

His bat is good enough to play anywhere, though.

DeezNutz 12-05-2010 09:40 PM
If the return for Greinke would be Drabek and Lawrie and nothing more, I'm going to ****ing puke.

Certainly DM is not that stupid.

alnorth 12-05-2010 09:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7230650)
If the return for Greinke would be Drabek and Lawrie and nothing more, I'm going to ****ing puke.

Certainly DM is not that stupid.
well, yeah. No one is stoned enough to suggest that, if anything Shaun Marcum is reinforcing the reality of Greinke's high value.

KC_Connection 12-05-2010 11:22 PM
If it's a deal like Drabek and Lawrie for Greinke...I'm kind of struggling to understand it from a Jays perspective.

I think I'd rather have Marcum and Drabek than Greinke by himself. But I guess we'll see.

alnorth 12-05-2010 11:24 PM
Maybe the Nats were bidding against themselves and it is not indicative of Crawford's value. From MLBTR:

Quote:
The Nationals' offer for Werth was so far beyond what everyone else was offering that agent Scott Boras didn't bother to ask other teams if they wanted to match, tweets Jayson Stark of ESPN.

KevB 12-06-2010 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 7231069)
Maybe the Nats were bidding against themselves and it is not indicative of Crawford's value. From MLBTR:
Or, that could be the story floated by other teams' to keep price tags down for other free agents.

eazyb81 12-06-2010 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7230650)
If the return for Greinke would be Drabek and Lawrie and nothing more, I'm going to ****ing puke.

Certainly DM is not that stupid.
Well I think one or two other lower level prospects could be thrown in there, but those two are both top 50 overall prospects and would be the cornerstone of the trade.

Maybe those two plus Zack Stewart and Carlos Perez?

DeezNutz 12-06-2010 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 7231470)
Well I think one or two other lower level prospects could be thrown in there, but those two are both top 50 overall prospects and would be the cornerstone of the trade.

Maybe those two plus Zack Stewart and Carlos Perez?
I understand, and my pessimism for Drabek is certainly coloring my reaction. Still, I'd rather have 2 more years of Zack and then 2 high draft picks when he left.

It would be, essentially, the same deal (but better).

siberian khatru 12-06-2010 11:57 AM
I had to post this from RoyalsReview. I literally lol'd in my office when I read it:

bigleaguestew: RT @SurfingTheMets: Francouer and Phils are flirting. He’s also talking to KC. Playing time in Philly possible issue. [via Twitter]

If the Phils and Franceour are flirting
I’m guessing Dayton is taking his top off.

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 6, 2010 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs

Bambi 12-06-2010 12:41 PM
Pack your sweater Zach. Toronto is cold. Like, all the time.

alnorth 12-06-2010 12:42 PM
yep, bad news this afternoon. As many Royals fans have feared, the Royals are going after Jeff Francoeur. We are apparently also bidding against Colorado and the Phillies. This is a race we do not want to win.

Frenchy is not old, but he's also not good. He is about a 0.5 WAR right fielder (equal value on offense and defense, maybe a quarter point each), barely above replacement level. He's got a little power but thats it, his average and OBP are garbage for his position and he strikes out a lot.

He might be worth 1 or 2 years at 1 or 2 million per, but we've got prospects in the minors who can give us what he can give us basically for free. If we sign him for longer than 2 years and/or more than 3 million per, I will be unhappy.

Valiant 12-06-2010 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7230156)
For all we know, his 2009 season was a fluke (or outlier, or however you want to term it). Nobody should be paying for that kind of production, because it isn't a reasonable expectation for what he's going to do going forward.


I don't buy that pitchers at the major league level can just turn on their games on and off simply at will. I'm surprised that you do. And in particular, I find it to be a very weak excuse for Greinke's "struggles" last year.

You have no idea about greinke then. He is literally crazy. He gets bored easily when not focused on a task. Hell he has tried throwing nothing but fastballs and softball pitches. He is great and a top ten if focused. Being on a winning team would do that. Hell he is a 20+ winner on 20+ teams not named the royals.

KevB 12-06-2010 01:57 PM
Buster Olney and John Heyman just commented on Greinke via Twitter. Neither are reporting a trade. Olney makes it sound like Lee will have to happen first, and that Jays aren't willing to go as far as the Royals want at this point. Heyman comments that if he were the Jays, he'd give up Drabek and Snider.

DeezNutz 12-06-2010 01:58 PM
:facepalm:

KevB 12-06-2010 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7232241)
:facepalm:
Deez, if I weren't a Royals fan, I think I'd be rooting for a Greinke for Drabek 1 for 1 just to see the epic meltdown from you. :)

teedubya 12-06-2010 02:04 PM
Carl Crawford and Curtis Granderson are 2 of my most favorite NON-Royals...

I'm all for Crawford coming to KC.

Demonpenz 12-06-2010 02:05 PM
Apathy. I thought about getting some Royals Schwag or maybe a quarter season tickets then I remembered that they don't deserve my money or time other than just yapping baseball. cause I love yapping baseball.

DeezNutz 12-06-2010 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevB (Post 7232250)
Deez, if I weren't a Royals fan, I think I'd be rooting for a Greinke for Drabek 1 for 1 just to see the epic meltdown from you. :)
Here's why I hate this shit. Drabek and Snider might end up being all-world. I doubt it, but they might. Cool.

But trading an elite pitcher for two top-50 players is ridiculously stupid when we could get the same return in 2 years (draft pick compensation), and Greinke would have far more value for KC in the interim.

When Montgomery, Lamb, and others (including the top position players) arrive, it would be nice if they weren't expected to be the stars from day one. Having established, high-quality players in place is essential, in my view, to develop a competitive team.

KC_Connection 12-06-2010 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiant (Post 7232138)
You have no idea about greinke then. He is literally crazy. He gets bored easily when not focused on a task. Hell he has tried throwing nothing but fastballs and softball pitches. He is great and a top ten if focused. Being on a winning team would do that. Hell he is a 20+ winner on 20+ teams not named the royals.
I have a pretty good idea about what Greinke is, but boredom doesn't cause a pitcher to regress like that. It's far more likely that 2009 was just an outlier.

KC_Connection 12-06-2010 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7232301)
But trading an elite pitcher for two top-50 players is ridiculously stupid when we could get the same return in 2 years (draft pick compensation), and Greinke would have far more value for KC in the interim.
Draft pick compensation isn't anywhere near what Drabek and Snider are worth.

The two years of Greinke are certainly valuable, but they lack value to a Royal team that won't be contending until 2013 at the earliest.

DeezNutz 12-06-2010 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection (Post 7232318)
Draft pick compensation isn't anywhere near what Drabek and Snider are worth.

The two years of Greinke are certainly valuable, but they lack value to a Royal team that won't be contending until 2013 at the earliest.
Snider is more "known," but I'll take a compensatory pick over a young pitcher who has already had Tommy John's.

SAUTO 12-06-2010 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7232324)
Snider is more "known," but I'll take a compensatory pick over a young pitcher who has already had Tommy John's.
the draftabulators at it again













:p

KevB 12-06-2010 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7232324)
Snider is more "known," but I'll take a compensatory pick over a young pitcher who has already had Tommy John's.
Especially with DM's current track record

The Poz 12-06-2010 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wickedson (Post 7232080)
Pack your sweater Zach. Toronto is cold. Like, all the time.
And where did you get that info from? Ever been up here between May and October? Can get pretty damn hot.

As for the possible trade...
"According to Buster Olney of ESPN.com, the Blue Jays will not make a trade for Zack Greinke at the Royals' current asking price.
Olney suspects that the Royals may gradually lower that price, especially once Cliff Lee signs and Greinke becomes the best pitcher available. The 27-year-old righty boasts a 3.82 career ERA and 1.26 WHIP. He's under control for two more years at $13.5 million per season and has expressed a desire to be moved. But, of course, it's going to take a serious package of prospects."

eazyb81 12-06-2010 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7232301)
Here's why I hate this shit. Drabek and Snider might end up being all-world. I doubt it, but they might. Cool.

But trading an elite pitcher for two top-50 players is ridiculously stupid when we could get the same return in 2 years (draft pick compensation), and Greinke would have far more value for KC in the interim.

When Montgomery, Lamb, and others (including the top position players) arrive, it would be nice if they weren't expected to be the stars from day one. Having established, high-quality players in place is essential, in my view, to develop a competitive team.
I think the final package will be more than just the two rumored players, but they keep getting mentioned because they're the main pieces. 4 or 5 prospects would be the likely total package.

Also, a lot can happen between now and when Greinke is a FA. He could do awesome or he could fall apart and tear his labrum. MLB could do away with draft comp for FAs that leave.

You're also not at all considering the $27MM we will save that could be used in the draft, international market, or on FAs during our run for respectability beginning in 2012.

It sucks losing a talent like Greinke, but keeping him for $27MM to win 72 games instead of 68 games isn't worth adding 4 more top prospects that could help us actually make the playoffs in a few years.

KChiefs1 12-06-2010 02:41 PM
Greinke trade verified?

DeezNutz 12-06-2010 02:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 7232426)
I think the final package will be more than just the two rumored players, but they keep getting mentioned because they're the main pieces. 4 or 5 prospects would be the likely total package.

Also, a lot can happen between now and when Greinke is a FA. He could do awesome or he could fall apart and tear his labrum. MLB could do away with draft comp for FAs that leave.

You're also not at all considering the $27MM we will save that could be used in the draft, international market, or on FAs during our run for respectability beginning in 2012.

It sucks losing a talent like Greinke, but keeping him for $27MM to win 72 games instead of 68 games isn't worth adding 4 more top prospects that could help us actually make the playoffs in a few years.
I can understand the reason to trade Greinke. I do. I just don't like this particular return.

Any bets on the bolded? The last thing this organization needs to be worried about is saving money.

eazyb81 12-06-2010 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7232436)
I can understand the reason to trade Greinke. I do. I just don't like this particular return.

Any bets on the bolded? The last thing this organization needs to be worried about is saving money.
All bets are off when we sign Francoeur for 3 years and $36MM by this afternoon.

ChiTown 12-06-2010 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 7232445)
All bets are off when we sign Francoeur for 3 years and $36MM by this afternoon.
:mad:

DeezNutz 12-06-2010 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 7232445)
All bets are off when we sign Francoeur for 3 years and $36MM by this afternoon.
LMAO.

If something pushes me to Betancourt-freakout mode, I might have to take a sabbatical until a new regime is in place.

alnorth 12-06-2010 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7232428)
Greinke trade verified?
No. Lots of smoke, no fire. Royals are on record as saying they basically want a king's ransom for Greinke, and if no one wants to pay up, he's a Royal on opening day.

chiefsnorth 12-06-2010 02:57 PM
Preface - I do not want Francoeur particularly.

Q: if he sucks so badly, why are the Phillies after him?

for cheap, I say do it. For Jose Guillen money... Forget it

DeezNutz 12-06-2010 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefsnorth (Post 7232486)
Preface - I do not want Francoeur particularly.

Q: if he sucks so badly, why are the Phillies after him?

for cheap, I say do it. For Jose Guillen money... Forget it
No thanks. For cheap, expensive, or otherwise. Why block more talented (and cheaper and younger) players?

kstater 12-06-2010 03:05 PM
Royals baseball: We'll be good in two years. We promise this time. No, we really really mean it this time.

alnorth 12-06-2010 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 7232498)
No thanks. For cheap, expensive, or otherwise. Why block more talented (and cheaper and younger) talent?
yep, Frenchy doesn't "suck" he is just not good. If you need a right fielder and have no options in-house, fine. He wont embarass himself in the field or at the plate, he's not good but he'll give you a respectable performance better than replacement value. If you need a 4th outfielder or depth at the bench he's good for that too.

We simply dont need him, if its not a 1/1 deal, he'd be blocking someone who will need playing time.

RockChalk 12-06-2010 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 7232523)
yep, Frenchy doesn't "suck" he is just not good. If you need a right fielder and have no options in-house, fine. He wont embarass himself in the field or at the plate, he's not good but he'll give you a respectable performance better than replacement value. If you need a 4th outfielder or depth at the bench he's good for that too.

We simply dont need him, if its not a 1/1 deal, he'd be blocking someone who will need playing time.
You're not taking into consideration DM's love of anything Braves related. 4 months of Frenchy's rookie season is enough for the Royals to outbid the competition for him. If we sign him, I would be that it's for more than double what anyone else was offering him.

tyton75 12-06-2010 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 7232445)
All bets are off when we sign Francoeur for 3 years and $36MM by this afternoon.
Wow that pissed me off! dik! :P

Bambi 12-06-2010 05:01 PM
Jeff Franceour was born to play in a Royals uniform.

KChiefs1 12-06-2010 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 7232478)
No. Lots of smoke, no fire. Royals are on record as saying they basically want a king's ransom for Greinke, and if no one wants to pay up, he's a Royal on opening day.
Sign him to a two year extension by telling him to hang in there for a couple of years...he should be able to tell from looking at the farm system that this time the Royals are serious.

KevB 12-06-2010 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7232882)
Sign him to a two year extension by telling him to hang in there for a couple of years...he should be able to tell from looking at the farm system that this time the Royals are serious.
He's already said that even if the young guys pan out, we won't truly be competitive for several years and he doesn't want to wait that long. I don't blame the guy.

KChiefs1 12-06-2010 06:24 PM
I'd be greatly disappointed if the Royals don't get at least three of these guys from the Blue Jays for Zack.

Kyle Drabek
Deck McGuire
Anthony Gose
Travis D'Arnaud
Zach Stewart
Asher Wojciechowski
J.P. Arencibia
Aaron Sanchez
Jake Marisnick

alnorth 12-06-2010 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7233250)
I'd be greatly disappointed if the Royals don't get at least three of these guys from the Blue Jays for Zack.

Kyle Drabek
Deck McGuire
Anthony Gose
Travis D'Arnaud
Zach Stewart
Asher Wojciechowski
J.P. Arencibia
Aaron Sanchez
Jake Marisnick
The royals are probably asking for four, actually. The Blue Jays are waiting to see if we come down to 2 or 3.

siberian khatru 12-06-2010 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7233250)
I'd be greatly disappointed if the Royals don't get at least three of these guys from the Blue Jays for Zack.

Kyle Drabek
Deck McGuire
Anthony Gose
Travis D'Arnaud
Zach Stewart
Asher Wojciechowski
J.P. Arencibia
Aaron Sanchez
Jake Marisnick
I'd put Lawrie on that list, too. He's got a legit bat. We'll find a position for him.

Sure-Oz 12-06-2010 07:06 PM
Can't **** up this deal....what team would have the best prospects? i dont know shit about the bluejays prospects other than drabek

Saul Good 12-06-2010 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Poz (Post 7232360)
As for the possible trade...
"[I]According to Buster Olney of ESPN.com, the Blue Jays will not make a trade for Zack Greinke at the Royals' current asking price.
Olney suspects that the Royals may gradually lower that price, especially once Cliff Lee signs and Greinke becomes the best pitcher available.
Why would the price get LOWER when Greinke is the only good pitcher left on the market?

alnorth 12-06-2010 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good (Post 7233904)
Why would the price get LOWER when Greinke is the only good pitcher left on the market?
The Blue Jays do have the ability to get a deal done, but just like us they are in no hurry. If you are a Blue Jay fan, why not wait and see if the price comes down? You can always pay the price in February or March instead of right now.

As for Buster Olney's argument, you are right, it makes no sense. If Lee is gone, then the law of supply and demand ought to make Greinke's price higher or the same at the very least, not lower.

KChiefs1 12-06-2010 10:26 PM
I'd love to see Texas get into the bidding for Zack.

alnorth 12-06-2010 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7234552)
I'd love to see Texas get into the bidding for Zack.
We've gotten phone calls from Texas. Those will intensify if the Yankees steal Lee away from them.

alnorth 12-07-2010 12:04 AM
more interesting details emerged.

http://www.kansascity.com/2010/12/06...-offering.html

Quote:
The early buzz at the Winter Meetings suggests the Royals are already wearying at what they perceive as low-ball offers from the Texas Rangers for pitcher Zack Greinke.

The reverse view, not surprisingly, is the Rangers contend the Royals are asking for the moon – a charge the Royals don’t deny and insist is unlikely to change.

“We’re going to move slow with it,” general manager Dayton Moore said, “and (wait) until we get the right type of deal if, indeed, we move on it. It’s no different than any other year.

“I could give you examples – I won’t, but I could – where we’ve been close to dealing Zack or other players in the past if we got the right pieces. We didn’t get the right piece included.”

The Royals want two impact prospects, with one preferably being a pitcher, in return for Greinke, who is under contract through 2012 at $13.5 million a season. They also want another player or two capable of supporting roles on a major-league club.

Texas has the necessary pieces to meet those demands – if it chooses. The Royals are believed to be interested in shortstop Jurickson Profar, outfielder Engel Beltre and one or more of the Rangers’ talented young pitchers.

The consensus view is Texas plans to wait to see whether it can retain free-agent lefty Cliff Lee, whom the New York Yankees have identified as their top off-season target. The Royals appear equally willing to wait – unless they get a can’t-refuse offer.

Interestingly, that could happen.

Ongoing discussions with Toronto appear to hinge on a single point: Are the Blue Jays willing to surrender minor-league pitcher Kyle Drabek and outfielder Travis Snider as part of a potential package?

jbwm89 12-07-2010 12:10 AM
No reason not to wait it out. The best thing that can happen for us is if Lee goes to New York. That should put Toronto and Texas in panic mode.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:27 PM.
Page 35 of 46 « First 2531323334 35 3637383945 Last »
Show 80 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.