ChiefsPlanet

ChiefsPlanet (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Nzoner's Game Room (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Royals *** Official 2016 Royals Repository, Version 1 *** (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=299181)

Sure-Oz 07-11-2016 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C3HIEF3S (Post 12310635)
and an underwhelming first half from every other starter save Duff, who wasn't even in the rotation to start the year.

Yep...Duffy's been the best followed by Kennedy...not saying much

suzzer99 07-11-2016 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats. (Post 12310408)

Needs a Wang.

Prison Bitch 07-11-2016 01:34 PM

Precisely. Every picture needs a wang in it

WhawhaWhat 07-11-2016 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12311181)
Precisely. Every picture needs a wang in it

That's a nice quote to take out of context.

KChiefs1 07-11-2016 09:21 PM

All-Star Game break attendance update:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...a31d7795c7.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BigCatDaddy 07-11-2016 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 12311865)
All-Star Game break attendance update:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...a31d7795c7.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Up about 10k per game from 4 or.5 years ago.

Pasta Little Brioni 07-11-2016 11:02 PM

Lulz at first place Cleveland 29th...sad

WhawhaWhat 07-12-2016 09:24 AM

Baseball as seen from an umpire's point of view.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2rR3nuZSaA0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mikeyis4dcats. 07-12-2016 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 12312091)
Baseball as seen from an umpire's point of view.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2rR3nuZSaA0" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

gotta really trust that catcher.

Sure-Oz 07-12-2016 05:23 PM

Anyone know where u can stream the all star game online..my cable provider and fox aren't getting along so I can't watch.

DaneMcCloud 07-12-2016 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz (Post 12312731)
Anyone know where u can stream the all star game online..my cable provider and fox aren't getting along so I can't watch.

It's supposed to stream for free on Fox Sports Go.

https://www.foxsportsgo.com/

Good luck!

Sure-Oz 07-12-2016 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 12312736)
It's supposed to stream for free on Fox Sports Go.

https://www.foxsportsgo.com/

Good luck!

Thanks I got to see ut right when they back to back hrs. :)

Sure-Oz 07-12-2016 10:20 PM

Hosmer AS game MVP. Let's go Royals. Salvy 2 run HR Kelvin perfect... all Royals AS game.

KChiefs1 07-12-2016 10:39 PM

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...3191d0a0c7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Anyong Bluth 07-12-2016 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz (Post 12313214)
Hosmer AS game MVP. Let's go Royals. Salvy 2 run HR Kelvin perfect... all Royals AS game.

Add a few more million to his next contract.

SCTrojan 07-12-2016 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz (Post 12313214)
Hosmer AS game MVP. Let's go Royals. Salvy 2 run HR Kelvin perfect... all Royals AS game.

These last couple of years have been such an incredible period for the Royals. You'd be hard-pressed to find a better two-year stretch in their history. Truly a special time to be a fan.

Sure-Oz 07-13-2016 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCTrojan (Post 12313303)
These last couple of years have been such an incredible period for the Royals. You'd be hard-pressed to find a better two-year stretch in their history. Truly a special time to be a fan.

It's been great..gotta enjoy this season and next as much as possible. Somr of these guys won't be back ... hopefully GMDM can keep some and keep piling on new talent to keep them competitive

Why Not? 07-13-2016 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCTrojan (Post 12313303)
These last couple of years have been such an incredible period for the Royals. You'd be hard-pressed to find a better two-year stretch in their history. Truly a special time to be a fan.


Oh yeah. Definitely the best few years in team history. Even if there was a couple of years that had been close from an accomplishment perspective, the decades of suck prior to 2013 would have been the trump card. Hell, it wasn't that long ago that our "highlights" included lead off hitters batting out of order and a Mark Redman AS game selection.

Lex Luthor 07-13-2016 07:28 AM

I've been a Royals fan from the very beginning. We had some really good times in 1976-78, 1980, and a great time in 1985.

But nothing compares to the time period that began with the 2014 postseason and ended with the 2015 World Series. It couldn't have been better. I know this is the best I will ever see in my lifetime.

BWillie 07-13-2016 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C3HIEF3S (Post 12306874)
I know they've been giving him the fast-track his entire career so far, but holy shit, Mondesi hasn't even turned 21 yet. Impressive.

Not really. He's sucked every level he's played in save for 2012 rookie ball. Royals are just confident in his work ethic, physical tools and that he can develop into a better player than he's shown, at least offensively.

BWillie 07-13-2016 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat (Post 12312091)
Baseball as seen from an umpire's point of view.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2rR3nuZSaA0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Always wondered why teams didn't use virtual reality or at least show gopro videos of the opposing pitcher from the batter in the box's point of view. Would give them a feel and ability to "see the pitcher" without having to go thru the order a few times.

WhawhaWhat 07-13-2016 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 12313541)
Always wondered why teams didn't use virtual reality or at least show gopro videos of the opposing pitcher from the batter in the box's point of view. Would give them a feel and ability to "see the pitcher" without having to go thru the order a few times.

Maybe for next year's All-Star game they could put a GoPro/Body Cam on the home plate umpire for the game for a POV perspective.

Prison Bitch 07-13-2016 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12310284)
These are the glory years of royals baseball. If the Chiefs went to the super bowl and then did it again winning it, and were 6-5, we'd be on cloud 9


I have to tell myself that watching Brooks Pounders and Chris Young pitch


Now I really mean it: these are the glory years, even if you have to take Wang and Pounders with it

Nightfyre 07-13-2016 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 12313534)
Not really. He's sucked every level he's played in save for 2012 rookie ball. Royals are just confident in his work ethic, physical tools and that he can develop into a better player than he's shown, at least offensively.

Maybe they just wanted to get him with the aforementioned hitting coach at Omaha. :shrug:

duncan_idaho 07-13-2016 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 12313534)
Not really. He's sucked every level he's played in save for 2012 rookie ball. Royals are just confident in his work ethic, physical tools and that he can develop into a better player than he's shown, at least offensively.



That's why you can't just stat watch with minor league guys. Have to take into account their age and scouting reports.

Mondesi has been about five years younger than the average age of guys at his level at every level.

Some of that is being an elite prospect, because they always are younger, but it still is an impressive feat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Prison Bitch 07-13-2016 10:48 AM

So it's gonna take 90 wins to get a WC spot. We are 45-43. So we have to go 45-29. Does anyone honestly see that? Like for real?

KevB 07-13-2016 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12313696)
So it's gonna take 90 wins to get a WC spot. We are 45-43. So we have to go 45-29. Does anyone honestly see that? Like for real?

It's unlikely, but this team has been swimming in unlikely waters for three years now and it's been damn fun.

duncan_idaho 07-13-2016 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12313696)
So it's gonna take 90 wins to get a WC spot. We are 45-43. So we have to go 45-29. Does anyone honestly see that? Like for real?



They're going to need a decently-sized winning streak or a 15-5 stretch to make it happen, most likely.

Let's say they open out of the break and go 15-5 (like they did a few years ago). That gets you to 60-48, needing 30-24 the rest of the way. Doable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BigCatDaddy 07-13-2016 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 12313738)
They're going to need a decently-sized winning streak or a 15-5 stretch to make it happen, most likely.

Let's say they open out of the break and go 15-5 (like they did a few years ago). That gets you to 60-48, needing 30-24 the rest of the way. Doable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Only if thry find a serviceable 5th starter. You cant have an auto L every 5 days.

Anyong Bluth 07-13-2016 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12313603)
Now I really mean it: these are the glory years, even if you have to take Wang and Pounders with it

I'm desperately hoping we can sign Chung. Any Chung will do!

Then we can all finally get everybody Wang Chung tonight!

Chiefspants 07-13-2016 12:45 PM

Thank you for making us all wrong about you, Ned (Well, most of us. Al never seemed to waver). S/O to Zo for the excellent retrospective interview.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb...e89009352.html

Prison Bitch 07-13-2016 01:14 PM

Hard to believe it was just 5 years ago that our lone all star rep was Aaron "punk ass bitch" Crow

Anyong Bluth 07-13-2016 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12313974)
Hard to believe it was just 5 years ago that our lone all star rep was Aaron "punk ass bitch" Crow

Holy shit.

Chiefspants 07-13-2016 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12313974)
Hard to believe it was just 5 years ago that our lone all star rep was Aaron "punk ass bitch" Crow

I think you mean Aaron "surrendered the walk-off" Crow.

BWillie 07-13-2016 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 12313887)
Thank you for making us all wrong about you, Ned (Well, most of us. Al never seemed to waver). S/O to Zo for the excellent retrospective interview.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb...e89009352.html

Most of what Ned does IS wrong. Just because they've won the World Series doesn't make him any better or worse of a manager. He does manage personalities well and the players seem to respect him, so there is that, which is worth something.

DaneMcCloud 07-13-2016 02:55 PM

Why would the Royals give up assets for Reddick?

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/20...biggest-needs/

Kansas City Royals

Record: 45-43 (-26 run differential)
Postseason Status: Seven games back in AL Central, 4 1/2 games back of Wild Card spot
Trade Deadline Status: Likely Buyer

For a defending World Series champion, the Royals sure do seem to have a lot of holes. The rotation has been terrible (4.99 ERA) -- Edinson Volquez, Yordano Ventura, and Chris Young have combined for a 5.40 ERA in 266 2/3 innings -- and there are clear openings in right field and on the infield. Even if you're the biggest Paulo Orlando/Brett Eibner/Cheslor Cuthbert/Whit Merrifield fan in the world, adding depth behind them would be a smart move. Josh Reddick strikes me as the perfect target here because he fits Kansas City's mold as a high contact hitter (11.7 percent strikeout rate) and excellent defender. Do the Royals have the prospects to get a deal done? They might not after using many of their best chips to get Johnny Cueto and Ben Zobrist last year.

siberian khatru 07-13-2016 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 12314146)
Why would the Royals give up assets for Reddick?

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/20...biggest-needs/

Kansas City Royals

Record: 45-43 (-26 run differential)
Postseason Status: Seven games back in AL Central, 4 1/2 games back of Wild Card spot
Trade Deadline Status: Likely Buyer

For a defending World Series champion, the Royals sure do seem to have a lot of holes. The rotation has been terrible (4.99 ERA) -- Edinson Volquez, Yordano Ventura, and Chris Young have combined for a 5.40 ERA in 266 2/3 innings -- and there are clear openings in right field and on the infield. Even if you're the biggest Paulo Orlando/Brett Eibner/Cheslor Cuthbert/Whit Merrifield fan in the world, adding depth behind them would be a smart move. Josh Reddick strikes me as the perfect target here because he fits Kansas City's mold as a high contact hitter (11.7 percent strikeout rate) and excellent defender. Do the Royals have the prospects to get a deal done? They might not after using many of their best chips to get Johnny Cueto and Ben Zobrist last year.


I like Reddick a lot, and earlier in the year I was interested in him. But then he hurt his thumb, his power is down this year, and at this point I'd rather play Eibner a lot in RF to see if he could provide some power than trade a lot for a rental. Save the chips for a SP.

duncan_idaho 07-13-2016 03:17 PM

Agree on saving the Chips for a SP.

Orlando is turning back into a 4th OF type rather than a legit starter, but that's OK. Give Eibner a go and see if that can work out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DaneMcCloud 07-13-2016 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 12314176)
Agree on saving the Chips for a SP.

Orlando is turning back into a 4th OF type rather than a legit starter, but that's OK. Give Eibner a go and see if that can work out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Too early call up Bonafacio if Eibner struggles?

And I'm with you: If they're giving up prospects, it should be for an SP, preferably with some controllable years left, not a rental.

ChiefsCountry 07-13-2016 03:22 PM

I don't think the RF is something we should really worry about unless a really good deal is available.

We do need to go get another pitcher, hopefully one with some control.

Meatloaf 07-13-2016 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 12314176)
Agree on saving the Chips for a SP.

Orlando is turning back into a 4th OF type rather than a legit starter, but that's OK. Give Eibner a go and see if that can work out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree with you, duncan, on Eibner. The guy looks pretty comfortable playing RF; certainly better than Orlando. Plus, he seems to have a little "boom" in his bat too. Don't get me wrong, I like Orlando, but he does look like a 4th OF guy.

alnorth 07-13-2016 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 12313887)
Thank you for making us all wrong about you, Ned (Well, most of us. Al never seemed to waver). S/O to Zo for the excellent retrospective interview.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb...e89009352.html

Just to be clear, I don't think Ned is a genius and he probably makes plenty of mistakes.

My argument has always been that I don't think a manager can do much to help a team, but he can really do a lot of damage (destroying pitching arms, or bunting/stealing excessively). Ned cleared my very low bar for acceptable managers, and I didn't trust Dayton to find another "good enough" manager.

duncan_idaho 07-13-2016 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 12314179)
Too early call up Bonafacio if Eibner struggles?



And I'm with you: If they're giving up prospects, it should be for an SP, preferably with some controllable years left, not a rental.


Probably. At least until he trims the strikeout rate back down.

I trust their judgment on when guys are ready pretty well. If they thought he was an upgrade, he'd be here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Anyong Bluth 07-13-2016 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 12314181)
I don't think the RF is something we should really worry about unless a really good deal is available.

We do need to go get another pitcher, hopefully one with some control.

The only position I'm interested in making a trade for is pitching.

I'd rather a top of the rotation arm and a crafty #3 who could take advantage of the K and our defense than seeking a bat in a trade.

Of course, the trade details dictate a lot of this.

Sure-Oz 07-13-2016 04:17 PM

Let Eibner start in RF replace him late for defense if you must. I'm hoping they don't hsve to trade bono or Dozier...I think they can help next season

Pitt Gorilla 07-13-2016 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure-Oz (Post 12314257)
Let Eibner start in RF replace him late for defense if you must. I'm hoping they don't hsve to trade bono or Dozier...I think they can help next season

Agreed. I wouldn't trade either of those or Mondesi; those guys are the next wave that will allow us to compete.

Chiefspants 07-13-2016 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 12314123)
Most of what Ned does IS wrong. Just because they've won the World Series doesn't make him any better or worse of a manager. He does manage personalities well and the players seem to respect him, so there is that, which is worth something.

Disagree. I'd say the majority of what Ned does is right after watching most of the other managers in the league. Ned outmanaged Terry in the WS and put us in a position to win in all of the 2015 postseason. He's not brilliant, but I no longer think someone has to be to be a successful manager in this league.

Gameplan wise, the biggest cardinal sin a manager can make is overusing the starter. Remember barnyard Trey? Ned gets big ups for pulling pitchers at 100-115 pitches alone. Dusty Baker has ruined entire careers by not following this footprint.

Besides, I've come to believe that 90% of being a manager is being a leader in the clubhouse. On paper, the Nationals likely had the best team in the league last year (pundits argued the Royals were still behind them after the Zo and Cueto trades last year). What happened to the Nats? Their locker room was a disaster, their manager threw their players under the bus, and two of their players got in a fistfight in September. They ended up missing the playoffs entirely, which is incredible considering the talent on that roster.

Ned has had a great presence in the clubhouse and lets our players excel at being who they are. This is what gave Hos the confidence to go for home in Game 5 and our players the faith they needed to stay aggressive over the last two postseasons. Watching the impact Matheny and Collins have had on their rosters by picking favorites has made me appreciate the impact Ned has had on our young players. I've come to believe it's the most important responsibility a manager has in the clubhouse.

But you still want to believe the Royals won in spite of Ned, I won't argue. It's actually not an uncommon belief about this squad.

Chiefspants 07-13-2016 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alnorth (Post 12314190)
Just to be clear, I don't think Ned is a genius and he probably makes plenty of mistakes.

My argument has always been that I don't think a manager can do much to help a team, but he can really do a lot of damage (destroying pitching arms, or bunting/stealing excessively). Ned cleared my very low bar for acceptable managers, and I didn't trust Dayton to find another "good enough" manager.

Yep, I don't believe he's a genius either, but he's good enough to lead a successful team. Something you believed and I doubted before.

I also do not think Pena, Bell or Hillman could have done the same.

Anyong Bluth 07-13-2016 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 12314313)
Completely disagree. I'd say most of what Ned does is right after watching most of the other managers in the league. Ned outmanaged Terry in the WS and put us in a position to win in all of the 2015 postseason.

Gameplan wise, the biggest Cardinal sin a manager can make is overusing the starter. Remember barnyard Trey? Ned gets big ups for pulling pitchers at 100-115 pitches alone. Dusty Baker has ruined entire careers by not following this footprint.

Besides, I've come to believe that 90% of being a manager is being a leader in the clubhouse. On paper, the Nationals likely had the best team in the league last year (pundits argued the Royals were still behind them after the Zo and Cueto trades last year). What happened to the Nats? Their locker room was a disaster, their manager threw their players under the bus, and two of their players got in a fistfight in September. They ended up missing the playoffs entirely, which is incredible considering the talent on that roster.

Ned has had an incredible presence in the clubhouse and lets our players excel at being who they are. This is what gave Hos the confidence to go for home in Game 5 and our players the faith they needed to stay aggressive over the last two postseasons. Watching the impact Matheny and Collins have had on their rosters by picking favorites has made me appreciate the impact Ned has had on our young players. I've come to believe it's the most important responsibility a manager has in the clubhouse.

But you still want to believe the Royals won in spite of Ned, I won't argue. It's actually not an uncommon belief about this squad.

Phil Jackson. Luke Walton adopted his coaching philosophy straight from Phil and not only rose to be the Lakers next coach, GS was a better team under him last year.

Teams with tons of talent have tons of egos. Massaging personalities is far too often overlooked. Managing requires teambuilding, otherwise you may have talent and dick in terms of team results.

KChiefs1 07-13-2016 05:11 PM

*** Official 2016 Royals Repository, Version 1 ***
 
Anyone in the Triple-A ASG worth watching?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

duncan_idaho 07-13-2016 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 12314312)
Agreed. I wouldn't trade either of those or Mondesi; those guys are the next wave that will allow us to compete.



I'd move one. Moustakas/Cuthbert/Dozier ... Lot of depth there.

I'd lean towards hanging on to Bonifacio due to his age and the lack of other close options.

I would NOT move Mondesi. And neither will the team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

C3HIEF3S 07-13-2016 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 12314312)
Agreed. I wouldn't trade either of those or Mondesi; those guys are the next wave that will allow us to compete.

On the flip side, they're still prospects and their value may never be higher than it is now.

ChiefsCountry 07-13-2016 05:55 PM

Dozier makes the most sense to move because of his age. He will be 25 in August. Cuthbert is just 23 and in the bigs.

Meatloaf 07-13-2016 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry (Post 12314410)
Dozier makes the most sense to move because of his age. He will be 25 in August. Cuthbert is just 23 and in the bigs.

Does it make any sense to keep Dozier as a possible replacement for (shudder) Hosmer should we not be able to sign him? Or do we not worry about that and assume Salvy or Gordon could end up there?

ChiefsCountry 07-13-2016 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meatloaf (Post 12314424)
Does it make any sense to keep Dozier as a possible replacement for (shudder) Hosmer should we not be able to sign him? Or do we not worry about that and assume Salvy or Gordon could end up there?

Ryan O'Hearn

milkman 07-13-2016 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 12314123)
Most of what Ned does IS wrong. Just because they've won the World Series doesn't make him any better or worse of a manager. He does manage personalities well and the players seem to respect him, so there is that, which is worth something.

Managing or coaching at the professional level is far more about managing personalities than it is about strategies.

Anyone that has reached the apex of the coaching profession knows the Xes and Os.

WhawhaWhat 07-14-2016 06:13 AM

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ changed it's format so I assume the baseball side isn't too far behind.

Prison Bitch 07-14-2016 07:58 AM

He's 22-9 postseason and 2-0 in the ASG. He's basically the anti-Marty

Why Not? 07-14-2016 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12315036)
He's 22-9 postseason and 2-0 in the ASG. He's basically the anti-Marty


Yep. Pro sports are all about the results. According to that principle, Ned is the best manager in baseball for the 2015 and 2016 season(until further notice). I'm not sure who follows Bochy on the active WS appearances list, but Ned has to be top 3-5 for sure.

Chiefspants 07-14-2016 11:36 AM

I was trying to think of a Marty equivalent in professional baseball, and then it hit me there's a philosophy only three letters off from "martyball" in this league.

sedated 07-14-2016 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 12315388)
I was trying to think of a Marty equivalent in professional baseball, and then it hit me there's a philosophy only three letters off from "martyball" in this league.

Bobby Cox

Why Not? 07-14-2016 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedated (Post 12315406)
Bobby Cox


Close but Bobby won one. Buck Showalter, maybe?

tk13 07-14-2016 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 12315388)
I was trying to think of a Marty equivalent in professional baseball, and then it hit me there's a philosophy only three letters off from "martyball" in this league.

Technically Moneyball is just exploiting market inefficiencies, but when talking about the A's specifically I never bought that the playoffs was just luck like Beane says. Every title team in every sport does get lucky breaks for sure... but the style of baseball the A's play in the book is a bit like Martyball.

Walks do indicate strike zone recognition but you have to be able to hit those strikes too. Once you get in the playoffs you're usually facing great pitchers. Ideally you shouldn't be seeing pitchers with poor control. A .225 hitter with a .325 OBP may end up being closer to a .225 guy against great pitching. And then if you're sitting around waiting for the 3 run homer, you're waiting for a pitching mistake. Their offense is just trying to avoid outs. That's a bit like Martyball, just trying to avoid mistakes while taking advantage of the opponent's mistakes. If you're up against an equally great team that's a challenge.

ChiefsCountry 07-14-2016 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 12315388)
I was trying to think of a Marty equivalent in professional baseball, and then it hit me there's a philosophy only three letters off from "martyball" in this league.

Gene Mauch

Fansy the Famous Bard 07-14-2016 12:36 PM

The result is very similar but moneyball conceptually is a different planet from what Marty was doing.

Prison Bitch 07-14-2016 01:33 PM

I laugh when people just assume Gordon, 32, will produce again. What evidence exists for that? He could, as he's still somewhat athletic but when you assume, you make an ass outta u. To wit:


Matt Kemp, 27, (8/160): had monster 8.3 WAR season in his walk away year, got massive 8-year megadeal, and immediately sucked. 5 years in, he's dropped 5 fart-bombs: 4.1 WAR total. Consider this, he stole 40 bases his walk year and was ok defensively. 39 since and terrible defensively. A quitter.

Matt Cain, 28, (5/127): Delivered 4 fart-bombs, going 13-26 in only 392 injury-plagued IP. 4.43FIP. Hurt yet again as I type this. 1.3 WAR. Paid $84M so far to produce $9M of value. A true scumbag.

Pablo Sandoval, 28, (5/95): Kung Fu Panda is not only clutch, he cares! Ha ha just kidding, he won't even play. I won't bother posting his data (since there is none)

Chiefspants 07-14-2016 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk13 (Post 12315449)
Technically Moneyball is just exploiting market inefficiencies, but when talking about the A's specifically I never bought that the playoffs was just luck like Beane says. Every title team in every sport does get lucky breaks for sure... but the style of baseball the A's play in the book is a bit like Martyball.

Walks do indicate strike zone recognition but you have to be able to hit those strikes too. Once you get in the playoffs you're usually facing great pitchers. Ideally you shouldn't be seeing pitchers with poor control. A .225 hitter with a .325 OBP may end up being closer to a .225 guy against great pitching. And then if you're sitting around waiting for the 3 run homer, you're waiting for a pitching mistake. Their offense is just trying to avoid outs. That's a bit like Martyball, just trying to avoid mistakes while taking advantage of the opponent's mistakes. If you're up against an equally great team that's a challenge.

The Royals focus on defense and contact to optimize the dimensions of Kauffman is a definite example of GMDM exploiting the inefficiencies of the market. Moneyball at its definition has worked well for the Royals.

BillyBall should be separated from Moneyball to focus on the specific inefficiencies that Beane has exploited. The way you break it down does make it feel more like Martyball I realized.

BigCatDaddy 07-14-2016 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12315621)
I laugh when people just assume Gordon, 32, will produce again. What evidence exists for that? He could, as he's still somewhat athletic but when you assume, you make an ass outta u. To wit:


Matt Kemp, 27, (8/160): had monster 8.3 WAR season in his walk away year, got massive 8-year megadeal, and immediately sucked. 5 years in, he's dropped 5 fart-bombs: 4.1 WAR total. Consider this, he stole 40 bases his walk year and was ok defensively. 39 since and terrible defensively. A quitter.

Matt Cain, 28, (5/127): Delivered 4 fart-bombs, going 13-26 in only 392 injury-plagued IP. 4.43FIP. Hurt yet again as I type this. 1.3 WAR. Paid $84M so far to produce $9M of value. A true scumbag.

Pablo Sandoval, 28, (5/95): Kung Fu Panda is not only clutch, he cares! Ha ha just kidding, he won't even play. I won't bother posting his data (since there is none)


He may not but I feel it ok to give him more than 50 games before asking for him to hang up the cleats for good.

DaneMcCloud 07-14-2016 04:49 PM

Red Sox got Pomeranz

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/re...cher-pomeranz/

BigCatDaddy 07-14-2016 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud (Post 12315778)

For the 15th rated prospect in baseball... pitching is going to be silly expensive

DaneMcCloud 07-14-2016 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 12315791)
For the 15th rated prospect in baseball... pitching is going to be silly expensive

Good. If the Royals struggle in the next few weeks, DM should ship out Hoch & Volquez and get some nice return.

tk13 07-14-2016 04:56 PM

Comparing Sandoval to Gordon is a joke. One is probably in the top 5 workout warriors/health freaks in the league, the other had his belt buckle explode during an at-bat in April. The only thing they have in common is they were both standing at 3rd base when the World Series ended two years ago.

big nasty kcnut 07-14-2016 05:12 PM

I think we need pitching. Paulo is fine. Eibner is good and so is Cuthbert. We need to shore up our pitching more then anything.

tk13 07-14-2016 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 12315791)
For the 15th rated prospect in baseball... pitching is going to be silly expensive

This is Dave Dombrowski though, he's always super aggressive and never afraid to trade away any prospect. This trade is right down his alley.

Chiefspants 07-14-2016 06:56 PM

My respect for Obama would soar if he allowed a Salvy Splash (as alluded to in the article). White House visit will be July 21st.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb...e89562597.html

suzzer99 07-14-2016 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefspants (Post 12315977)
My respect for Obama would soar if he allowed a Salvy Splash (as alluded to in the article). White House visit will be July 21st.

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/mlb...e89562597.html

DC forum would be all over Obama for mendaciously disrespecting the office of president.

duncan_idaho 07-14-2016 07:28 PM

*** Official 2016 Royals Repository, Version 1 ***
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch (Post 12315621)
I laugh when people just assume Gordon, 32, will produce again. What evidence exists for that? He could, as he's still somewhat athletic but when you assume, you make an ass outta u. To wit:


Matt Kemp, 27, (8/160): had monster 8.3 WAR season in his walk away year, got massive 8-year megadeal, and immediately sucked. 5 years in, he's dropped 5 fart-bombs: 4.1 WAR total. Consider this, he stole 40 bases his walk year and was ok defensively. 39 since and terrible defensively. A quitter.

Matt Cain, 28, (5/127): Delivered 4 fart-bombs, going 13-26 in only 392 injury-plagued IP. 4.43FIP. Hurt yet again as I type this. 1.3 WAR. Paid $84M so far to produce $9M of value. A true scumbag.

Pablo Sandoval, 28, (5/95): Kung Fu Panda is not only clutch, he cares! Ha ha just kidding, he won't even play. I won't bother posting his data (since there is none)


Bad examples.

Kemp had a grade two hamstring tear, came back too early, and tore the hamstring off the bone (grade 3). He's never run the same way since.

Cain's elbow blew up on him.

And Sandoval is a laughable comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 12315791)
For the 15th rated prospect in baseball... pitching is going to be silly expensive

Yeah, that's a crazy high price.

Espinoza is similar to Ventura in a lot of ways ... Small, has tremendous stuff, hasn't put it together yet. He's also like 18 or 19 and several years away.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KChiefs1 07-14-2016 09:18 PM

*** Official 2016 Royals Repository, Version 1 ***
 
Long but interesting read by Jon Heyman:



http://www.todaysknuckleball.com/ins...series-window/


Quote:

Heyman: Eric Hosmer and the Royals’ closing World Series window

The small-market Royals have beaten the odds to make two straight World Series, and win one, thanks to the leadership of superb GM Dayton Moore, an excellent plan based around defense and pitching (and especially bullpen) and a fine band of very nice, win-first players. But with a couple of their key core stars – notably Lorenzo Cain and most especially All-Star Game MVP Eric Hosmer, both free agents in a couple years — do the World Champions have an expiration date?

They’d love to have a chance to keep for the long-term Cain and particularly Hosmer, who comprise two-thirds of the middle of their relentless batting order, but the early signs are that that might not be so easy. Thanks to their stunning on-field success, the Royals’ revenues miraculously are said by sources to have risen to the middle of the pack. Yet, to keep their core intact might take quite an unexpected break, or two. And, in a sense, they might be a victim of their own success.

“Kansas City’s got a window of about this year and next,” one rival GM said. “It’s going to be a tough call which way to go.” (Some even think they might consider trading one of their key pieces a year before free agency to take advantage of a weak free-agent market next winter, and more to the point, get a start on a partial remake.)

It’s a call also complicated by the fact that their key players, a smarter-than-average lot, can start to see the window closing from here. The Royals are said to have had only preliminary talks with Cain, if that, with one person close to that situation saying only that K.C. “tip-toed” around numbers. And while they haven’t necessarily had formal talks with Hosmer, either, they’ve talked enough to understand where his camp stands, and there’s no sense there’s much optimism for a long deal — at least not yet.

Hosmer, absolutely loved by Royals higher-ups as a clutch leader and a very fine two-way player who has put up nice-though-not-crazy offensive numbers in a pitchers’ park but who may just be scratching the surface offensively, has two years to go before free agency. Consistent power is the only thing Hosmer hasn’t shown in spades, and there are signs this year; earlier, he hit two opposite-field homers off A.L. All-Star starter Chris Sale. Hosmer’s camp isn’t tipping their hand, but Royals brass, which stepped up with a $70-milllion deal for free agent pitcher Ian Kennedy and $72 million for another core star Alex Gordon, seems to have an idea Hosmer could be seeking $20-million plus per year on a 10-year deal.

American League's Eric Hosmer, of the Kansas City Royals, left, greets teammate Salvador Perez, of the Kansas City Royals, after hitting a solo home run against the National League during the second inning of the MLB baseball All-Star Game, Tuesday, July 12, 2016, in San Diego. (AP Photo/Gregory Bull)
American League’s Eric Hosmer, of the Kansas City Royals, left, greets teammate Salvador Perez, of the Kansas City Royals, after hitting a solo home run against the National League during the second inning of the MLB baseball All-Star Game, Tuesday, July 12, 2016, in San Diego. (AP Photo/Gregory Bull)

Hosmer’s agent Scott Boras didn’t get into exact figures but did say, “The premium associated with 27-year-olds are very different than metrics associated with 32-year-olds, especially when it’s a widely known Gold Glove franchise-type player who also has the ability to perform at extremely high levels in big situations and on big stages. You’d have everything you’d want in a free agent Eric Hosmer.”

If Brandon Belt’s $75-million, five-year deal seemed at some point like a comp for Hosmer, even Royals people acknowledge that Hosmer has a significant edge on defense (no matter what the range number says this year) and gets bonus points for his dynamic clubhouse role, too. Hosmer is also only 26, and one rival GM brought up Jason Heyward as a comp, suggesting K.C.’s fears may be well founded, considering he got a $184-million deal. Another person mentioned that Jacoby Ellsbury got nearly $20 million a year in a prior market. These don’t seem like Kansas City numbers.

K.C. actually has run its payroll up to a respectable $130 million as it tries to make the best of its current window, so cheers to David Glass and the Walmart folks who run the team. The players are duly appreciative of the efforts of the front office, one of the best in the game. But it’s possible they can also start to see that window closing, through no fault of anyone’s in K.C. Mike Moustakas, Wade Davis and Edinson Volquez are more key players who can become free agents by ’18.

“The main thing, as a player, you want to be on a team that’s competitive,” Hosmer said Monday in San Diego. “That’s one thing we all look for. It’s special coming up with the same group. At the same time, the business side comes in at some point. As a player I’m not going to demand anything. I’m just going to enjoy my time there. And you never know. I might get a call from Scott. Things can change in the moment.”

Boras and the widely-respected, championship-delivering Royals GM seem to have a mutual admiration going over their love of the game, and Boras says he sympathizes with the Royals and their plight, which he believes is exacerbated by recent draft rules, which some say more harshly punish success, even success by a small-market club.

“The Royals are a prime example of why the draft rules that existed prior to 2011 work. They built their success by drafting players like Hosmer, Moustakas and so on down the line, which allowed them to build a tremendous playoff run through a three-, four-year period,” Boras said. “Now the new draft rules may prevent them from sustaining success. If you are successful in ’14, ’15 and ’16, the draft rules should allow you to be successful in ’17 and ’18. They’ve had $5-to-$6 million to spend on the draft, whereas the Cubs and Astros had $15 million or so.

“This shows why signing Hosmer is so important because they no longer have that draft vehicle,” Boras continued. “The Royals are a prime example of what great scouting and intellect can do, but they have been absolutely demolished by the new draft rules. That’s why free agency is absolutely paramount if they are going to have any success after 2018. Unless they sign free agents, in 2017 and ’18 they could have only a shadow of their strength.”

The Royals have unquestionably made a lot of right decisions at this point, and they haven’t been afraid to pay market price if they love a player (see Kennedy, whose deal shocked a few). Moore and Co. also have established a rapport with Boras (Moustakas, Christian Colon, Kendrys Morales also signed Royals deals as Boras clients), and ultimately maybe Hosmer will take less than market price to stay. But between the window and a possible $200-million-plus target, it looks like it may be a long shot from here.

Kansas City Royals

Royals people believe they have seriously missed Mike Moustakas’s win-at-all-costs play on the field … They think star closer Wade Davis will be back soon.


Chicago White Sox

Though they haven’t been linked in any way to him yet, one rival GM opined Jonathan Lucroy would fit for the White Sox. For now, anyway, they are probably more in the “limbo” category than the buying category. There are 11 teams in the A.L. .500 or better and they are near the bottom of that group … It was terrific how A.L. All-Star starter Chris Sale paid tribute to Tony Gwynn for helping him stopped chewing tobacco. Sale said he quit cold turkey the day the Padres great died. (Me: And it certainly hasn’t affected his performance.) … Good to see Jose Quintana get some national exposure. He is the unluckiest starter in baseball. For the fourth straight year, his run support is among the worst seven in the league (this year it’s the worst).


Cleveland Indians

Michael Brantley (shoulder) may not be far off. He’s taking batting practice, and said to be feeling good … In the meantime, Tyler Naquin has been winning over admirers. The former No. 1 pick has showed very good power. The Indians have quite an outfield of the future with also Clint Frazier, Bradley Zimmer and June draftee Will Benson, three more fine outfielders … Danny Salazar was given a pass for the All-Star game and said he wouldn’t start until game four or five out the break to be cautious, but that the elbow “is nothing bad.” He will make that start, he swore. “100 percent,” he added … Winning veterans Juan Uribe and Mike Napoli have been a cost-effective duo for the Tribe. It’s amazing how winning follows them around, especially Uribe … Isn’t it time time Sandy Alomar Jr. got a chance to manage somewhere?

Detroit Tigers

Here’s an interesting story on former Marlin (and ex-Tiger) Dontrelle Willis from Danny Knobler at Bleacher Report.


Minnesota Twins

There’s no sense around the Twins that GM Terry Ryan has any interest in stepping down, and people familiar with that situation note his great rapport with the club-owning Pohlads. They also think Ryan won’t want to leave them with a 95-loss season. Of course, Ryan is as close to the vest as it gets. And no one thought Ron Gardenhire was getting the ax until five minutes before he did … The Twins “can turn it around very quickly,” according to one Twins connected person. And that makes sense because they went south in quite a hurry. Don’t forget the Twins did win 83 games last year … The Twins finished up the first half with a 16-16 stretch, which is, let’s say, a lot better than they started. Ervin Santana and Tyler Duffey have been pitching deep into games, giving the bullpen needed rest. The return of Miguel Sano has also been big … Eduardo Nunez, a first-time All-Star, said, “I’d like to stay. I love it” in Minnesota. The difference for Nunez, he says, is playing time.





ChiefsCountry 07-14-2016 09:46 PM

Here's a trade idea - Shelby Miller. Diamondbacks just sent him to Triple A.

Chiefs Pantalones 07-14-2016 11:27 PM

Whether it be us or some other team, Hosmer is about to become a little wealthy. Just a tad bit. Lol


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.