Potential three-shot swing

Edit: Got out with a bogey. Nice recovery

Well, he's safe, but that's immaterial. Golf is a sport that is supposed to exist without gray areas. As bullshit as it was, the ruling against Craig Stadler using a towel years back was correct.

They need to be far more militant in enforcing slow play penalties because it absolutely ruins the game.

I can go out and walk 18 and play in three hours without rushing over shots, but because hackers see the pros do it, they start plumb-bobbing straight two footers, stepping off of shots, and taking five practice swings.

It must stop.

Something brewing about Tigers drop on 15.

They're going off his presser where he said he dropped 2 yards back, but looking at the replay, he's within 2 feet of where his first shot was.

Let's see them kick Tiger out of the Masters.

So now a 2-stroke penalty and five strokes back. If he misses the flagstick he's probably in the final group. Hope he shoots a 67 today

He needs to disqualify himself.

Why?

As I am listening to Tigers problem-I think this should be the fault of the PGA.

They told him the one stroke penalty was fine-sign the card or be dq'ed

Now they are assessing the two stroke penalty after the card is signed-becuase if he doesn't sign the card he will be dq'ed.

So is he disqualified or still in?

Interesting ruling. I know of the new rule from last year making allowances for armchair golfers that call in rules violations, but I don't think this falls under that. If Tiger's intent was to actually drop beyond his original ball, then he needs to take himself out for signing the card wrong, because it's his mis-understanding of the rule.

Sounds fair/Dustin Johnson

he is in. Yes he should know the rules, but the USGA accepted his one stroke and drop.

I not sure I know the exact procedure when putting the ball in play in that situation. On any ol day one of us would just walk back and drop a ball next to the divot we just made and play from there. In this situation the player doesn't have to mark where he hit from and put down a club to make sure the ball doesn't end up closer to the hole after it's dropped? What's the protocol?

The original divot was clear to see. He dropped behind that, but apparently not close enough to the original spot. He mentioned something about "line of flight" which is a different rule.

I think they cut him some slack because the intent of the rule is to avoid someone gaining an advantage by improving their lie or stance or both. That wasn't the case where he was hitting.

The rule is vague, too. It says "as near as possible to the original spot." What does that mean? One foot, one yard, in the original divot?

By his own admission he thought it was an advantage to be two yards back.

This is why golf is a ****ing joke. A rules official should have been with Tiger at the drop, ensuring that it was handled properly. 18 hours later, things shouldn't change.

"Honor." OK.

From what I've read about it (I didn't see it), it sounds like he wouldn't be in this mess at all had he not made those comments.

Yep. But at least they changed the DQ rule

Isn't there usually an official when the drop by the green or right next to the water hazard? I've seen many a competitor ask an official if his drop was okay before he deemed his ball in play.

He should voluntarily withdraw IMO. It sucks, but it is the right thing to do.

tee time set for this afternoon

why is that the right thing to do?

Initially the drop was approved, then the rules committee had different ruling after he signed his card. It's not his fault he signed an incorrect card, as it all came after the fact. They've changed the rules to accommodate such rulings. He wasn't any closer to the pin, and it appeared be a reasonable proximity to his original shot. It wasn't two yards. And Brandel Chamblee is a pompous prick. Nobilo is so much easier to tolerate.

Faldo is a pillow biter

That's Sir Pillow Biter to you...:)

2 Strokes is the right call, the rest is drama.

They did a decent job explaining the ruling on the Golf Channel. Rules 26 & 33.

Pillow Biter Royale

I agree with Joe. Tiger broke the rules and that's what lead to him signing the incorrect card. It sucks but a precedent needs to be set by the #1 player in the world. The competitor is responsible to know and abide by the rules end of story. There can be no breaks for anyone. Not even Tiger.

I thought so. Had it been called propely during play and after the first review, it would have been a two stroke penalty.

He is abiding by the rules, they changed it so if he signed "an incorrect" scorecard, he's no longer DQ'd if he couldn't have known it was incorrect at the time of signing.

He broke the rule and signed an incorrect scorecard. He knew he improved his lie, he even admitted it. It was a mistake by him by confusing his options, but he still signed an incorrect card.

He should have known. Why do you say he couldn't have known?

I'm not saying he should be DQd but he has a chance to make a huge statement and show some character if he DQd himself.

The more I look into this, the more I hate serious golfers. What a bunch of red-ass losers. You're not a purist, you're a white piece of shit elitist

They assessed the penalty after he signed the card.

They initially ruled that his drop was fine. Before he signed his card.

Thanks for your contribution. Feel free to DQ yourself from the conversation.

Now knowing than Tiger Woods was told the drop was reviewed before signing his card and told it was good there's no reason he needs to withdraw, And quite honestly the two-stroke penalty is bunk.

Yep, they reviewed it while he was finishing up on 18, I think the whole thing stinks.

Concur.....and this is from someone who hopes Tiger shanks every shot he takes.
I liked the kid the first few years, but the past handful of years as he gets older, I want him to tank.

I do have an issue that he took a drop to gain an advantage (admittedly) but if the rules official told him it was OK, then that's not his fault.

Stupid question, but I haven't heard.....Did an official clarify that he could drop where he did prior to him hitting the shot?

26-2. Ball Played Within Water Hazard
• a. Ball Comes to Rest in Same or Another Water Hazard
If a ball played from within a water hazard comes to rest in the same or another water hazard after the stroke, the player may: (i) proceed under Rule 26-1a. If, after dropping in the hazard, the player elects not to play the dropped ball, he may:
(a) proceed under Rule 26-1b, or if applicable Rule 26-1c, adding the additional penalty of one stroke prescribed by the Rule and using as the reference point the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of this hazard before it came to rest in this hazard; or
(b) add an additional penalty of one stroke and play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule 20-5); or
(ii) proceed under Rule 26-1b, or if applicable Rule 26-1c; or
(iii) under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule 20-5).
• b. Ball Lost or Unplayable Outside Hazard or Out of Bounds
If a ball played from within a water hazard is lost or deemed unplayable outside the hazard or is out of bounds, the player may, after taking a penalty of one stroke under Rule 27-1 or 28a:
(i) play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot in the hazard from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or
(ii) proceed under Rule 26-1b, or if applicable Rule 26-1c, adding the additional penalty of one stroke prescribed by the Rule and using as the reference point the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the hazard before it came to rest in the hazard; or
(iii) add an additional penalty of one stroke and play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the last stroke from outside a water hazard was made (see Rule 20-5).
Note 1: When proceeding under Rule 26-2b, the player is not required to drop a ball under Rule 27-1 or 28a. If he does drop a ball, he is not required to play it. He may alternatively proceed under Rule 26-2b(ii) or (iii).
Note 2: If a ball played from within a water hazard is deemed unplayable outside the hazard, nothing in Rule 26-2b precludes the player from proceeding under Rule 28b or c.
PENALTY FOR BREACH OF RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.

The rules officials never said a thing until this morning after they reviewed his post round comments where he admitted he improved his lie. The reviewed it amongst themselves while he was playing 18 and determined it was OK, but even Tiger knew (or should have) that it was an illegal drop. This rule 33 makes it a gray area, where it was a black and white violation.

The honorable thing to do is admit your mistake and withdraw. Faxon, Begay, Faldo all said they would withdraw if it was them.

It's ironic how perfectly he played that hole and at best ends up with an 8 :shake:

Hitting the stick was a terrible break.

I don't know that he improved his lie as much he he improved his distance. When I think of improving a lie, I think of the way the ball was sitting, or moving the ball to avoid an obstacle. I've never heard that moving a ball back a few feet as an improvement, and he was already dropping 4, playing 5.

It's pretty moot at this point. If he wins the tournament, people are going to talk about it forever. If he doesn't, it'll be a footnote.

I agree with everything you just said, he gained an advantage by moving back 6 feet, so if he hits the exact same shot, it will not hit the flag the 2nd time.

I don't think he should withdraw, but he should have known the rule. A lot of professional golfers don't know all of the intricacies of the rule book. With that said, Tiger prepares at insane rates. I have a hard time imagining that he didn't know the specifics of that rule, as the options of water hazards, whether lateral or traditional, are among the most discussed and used of the rules.

He deserves the penalty. Moving back two yards is not "as near as possible".

IMO, it's up to the officials to enforce the rules. Competitors, no matter the sport, push them to the limits.

Thus, when he knew that the drop was reviewed and approved, the "discussion" ended, and therefore the penalty is yet another example of bullshit in the game of golf.

The officials told him before the end of the round that what he did was fine. There is no controversy here if this isn't Tiger Woods.

Going to be tough for him to win now. Probably needs back to back 67s.

I understand the logic behind your stance, but golf has always existed as the exception to the rule, and this is another reason why. To you, it's anachronistic and foolish; to me, it's part of what makes the game beautiful.

To further clarify:

In golf, you are supposed to police yourself. That means calling yourself out for breeches, and not relying on an incorrect interpretation of the rules to skirt by.

If they were giving Tiger a break because of TV ratings, wouldn't there be a place to watch him play right now? For the second time in three days, these ****s didn't make his group available to watch online. Ridiculous shit.

I can appreciate your perspective, but many wrongs (speaking specifically in terms of exclusionary, bigoted bullshit) have been upheld in the sport in the name of tradition. Thus, I cannot separate the two.

Note: I realize that one can, as you would argue as strongly as anyone against any of the concepts that I placed in parentheses.

I hope Tiger goes in full FU mode and shoots a 65 or 66 today.

"Your uncle molests collies"

Pars the Par 5 2nd. Needs to be birdieing those holes if he's going to have any chance at a 65 or 66.

No offense but that's exactly wrong. Who applies the rules when there is no officials? The competitors do. This is one of the things that separates golf from other sports and it's very important. Reminds me of a match I played in a Cup Team situation many years ago. The guy I was playing grounded his club behind his ball in the rough and his ball moved. He was a 100 yards away from me so I didn't see it but he called it on himself. It was on the 17th hole and in the end we halved the match. That's golf and as a competitor one has the responsibility. And if you cheat your buddies in your regular foursome you're a huge schmuck.

I love golf as a game. I hate golf as a social institution.

I agree with your parenthetical, and that's also why I usually play alone.

I played with my uncle and some of his friends last year and we were on 15 and he asked me, "Why aren't you drinking?"

I told him, "I don't play golf to socialize."

He told me I was no fun, and I responded that I don't play to have fun, I play to hone my craft.

Earlier this week I went to the course to practice and saw a gaggle of about ten carts around a tree with a bunch of guys bullshitting, squawking about politics, and drinking. It disgusted me because I felt like they were using the game for the purposes you outlined in parentheses.

I think a 68 or 69 would still leave him in a good position.

Course is too susceptible to good scores today. He needs a 66.

They did not tell him.

I think -10 or -11 is the winning score, hence why I thought he needed two 67s.

A lot of it depends on Day, IMO.

his mindset is to get to -10 by around hole 15 tomorrow and then start worrying about what he needs to do to win

Unless there is a ton of misinformation in the media about this (which, I grant, wouldn't be surprising considering the pedantic nature of this bullshit controversy), they did.

I have no idea how the rules officials initially determined the drop was fine. It was blatantly obvious that the drop was not as "close as possible" to the original shot. Had they assessed the penalty yesterday before he signed his card like they should have there would be no controversy.

I think it's about 70% as much bullshit as the Dustin Johnson grounding of the club at the Open a few years back...

and I thought that was A LARGE AMOUNT of bullshit

http://www.masters.com/en_US/videos/index.html 3:00 MARK

I would suggest that you're a schmuck in any sport if you cheat. Why the honor code gets applied to golf more stringently than any other sport is foolish and hypocritical.

I'd be surprised if he went that low. Just parred the relatively easy third as well.

What is that link supposed to be showing me? I'm certainly not going to waste my time watching an entire 20 minute explanation of this "controversy" from the people that screwed up in the first place.

At the 3 minute mark they explain that they didn't say anything to Tiger.

The officials really blew this IMO.

I was serious for so many years when I was young but I didn't play my best golf until I got older and learned to have fun doing it.

he definitely needs to get something going

I hate the fact he ran into that bad luck yesterday...golf is more fun to watch when Tiger is in contention

Tiger bogeys #4. Holes like that are really going to make it difficult to go that low. Of course, since he's not being shown anywhere right now, I have no clue what the **** happened.

So they just ruled it was fine and didn't say anything to anyone (which is contrary to all reports out there, BTW). But then decided to change their minds today? WTF?

I agree but golf is played over such a large playing field that a lot of the time there is no one there to watch what one does. Just like in my example. When the guy grounded his club and his ball moved did it help him? Probably made his lie worse but that's the rule and he was the only one there to enforce it. That I think is a big part of it.

Exactly.. They changed their mind after Tiger admitted he dropped the ball a few yards behind his previous shot. They completely F'd up.

Eh, they probably gave him the benefit of the doubt they he tried to be close to the original spot. His comments about intentionally dropping there then forced their hand. That said it, at least they changed the rule about not DQing in this situation. In this day, still think the players keeping score and signing scorecards is a bit silly.