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-   -   NFL Draft Well, We Probably Should Have a Brian Orakpo Thread... (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=196400)

'Hamas' Jenkins 11-09-2008 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Basileus777 (Post 5205805)
Mangini has to win games to keep his job. They traded for Favre an signed a bunch of veteran free agents. The Jets are trying to win a Superbowl this year. I don't think they have a chance in hell of doing it, but if you want to win games you aren't going to play a raw rookie who doesn't know how to play OLB.

I know. The management is stupid, and horribly shortsighted. The same thing is going to bite the Dolphins in the ass when their fans realized they sold out for a team whose ceiling is 9-7.

the Talking Can 11-09-2008 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 5205802)
How many high draft picks and FA dollars will we need to spend on the defense for it to be decent?

as many as it takes

'Hamas' Jenkins 11-09-2008 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 5205816)
Not with Turk. He was a tweener who was supposed to be able to supply some pass rush. He was more than capable of playing all positions on the line, according to Herm, when the selection was made.

Unless you are Reggie White, 290 pound guys just don't play RDE in this league.

The most successful guys who are close are Peppers and Williams, who are 6'6"-6'7" and weigh 280.

That's a lot different from 6'2" 280, like McBride. He's just not quick enough to play RDE.

DeezNutz 11-09-2008 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 5205822)
as many as it takes

That's fine, but it should ensure Carl's fate. Couple this with the Larry contract, and the outcome has to be obvious.

cdcox 11-09-2008 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5205798)
If a guy is that strong, it doesn't matter if he weighs 260, 240, or 380. He already has world class facilities at UT. There really isn't a difference in the strength and conditioning programs you get at major DI schools and the Pros. That should be more of a concern if he were coming from a mid-major or a DII school.

In the NFL, the 320 lb LT across from you is going to be plenty strong too. The big guy will plow the little guy in the run game. I'm not saying don't draft him, but to just say size doesn't matter is wrong. What 260 lb RDE is strong against the run? That's not the primary role that the RDE plays but you want someone that can hold their own.

DeezNutz 11-09-2008 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5205828)
Unless you are Reggie White, 290 pound guys just don't play RDE in this league.

The most successful guys who are close are Peppers and Williams, who are 6'6"-6'7" and weigh 280.

That's a lot different from 6'2" 280, like McBride. He's just not quick enough to play RDE.

I'm just relating what I was remembering about the selection. He was identified as a pass rusher, not simply a run stuffer.

'Hamas' Jenkins 11-09-2008 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox (Post 5205831)
In the NFL, the 320 lb LT across from you is going to be plenty strong too. The big guy will plow the little guy in the run game. I'm not saying don't draft him, but to just say size doesn't matter is wrong. What 260 lb RDE is strong against the run? That's not the primary role that the RDE plays but you want someone that can hold their own.

A 260 pound guy who uses leverage well and can bench and squat more than said 320 lb. LT will whip his ass at the point of attack. Besides, Cover 2 DE's aren't run stuffers. With that being said, Orakpo plays the run as well as you could hope for. He's not Dwight Freeney.

DeezNutz 11-09-2008 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox (Post 5205831)
In the NFL, the 320 lb LT across from you is going to be plenty strong too. The big guy will plow the little guy in the run game. I'm not saying don't draft him, but to just say size doesn't matter is wrong. What 260 lb RDE is strong against the run? That's not the primary role that the RDE plays but you want someone that can hold their own.

Orakpo's 500 lb. bench is great, very impressive by all accounts, but Brian Waters, for example, puts up over 600 lbs.

Bottom line, Orakpo's not going to "out-strength" a lot of players.

cdcox 11-09-2008 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5205828)
The most successful guys who are close are Peppers and Williams, who are 6'6"-6'7" and weigh 280.

Orakpo is 6-4" and a small 260. Hence my question about is size. Not saying we shouldn't draft him.

eazyb81 11-09-2008 07:56 PM

I love Orakpo's production and physical tools, and I agree he's probably the next best target if Stafford is gone. However, I can't get over the fact that Texas has such a huge bust rate for pro players, and I wish Orakpo was a bit longer. 6'3" isn't ideal for a DE you're using a top five pick on.

'Hamas' Jenkins 11-09-2008 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz (Post 5205839)
Orakpo's 500 lb. bench is great, very impressive by all accounts, but Brian Waters, for example, puts up over 600 lbs.

Bottom line, Orakpo's not going to "out-strength" a lot of players.

Brian Waters is perhaps the strongest guy in the NFL, and he's also playing guard. He's going to be taking on DTs, not RDE's in the run game. It also helps that Waters has short arms, FWIW.

Look at it this way:

Gholston put up as much weight as Jake Long at the combine last year. Long is about as strong of a tackle as you'll find, but in a bullrush situation, he's going to have his hands full with either Gholston or Orakpo.

'Hamas' Jenkins 11-09-2008 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdcox (Post 5205842)
Orakpo is 6-4" and a small 260. Hence my question about is size. Not saying we shouldn't draft him.

John Abraham is a small 260.
Jared Allen is a small 260.

Brian Orakpo is not a small 260.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...orakpo_400.jpg

'Hamas' Jenkins 11-09-2008 08:02 PM

<object width="440" height="361"><param name="movie" value="http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/player.swf?mediaId=3650227"/><param name="wmode" value="transparent"/><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"/><embed src="http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/player.swf?mediaId=3650227" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="440" height="361" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object>

Zouk 11-09-2008 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins (Post 5205819)
I know. The management is stupid, and horribly shortsighted. The same thing is going to bite the Dolphins in the ass when their fans realized they sold out for a team whose ceiling is 9-7.

What did the Dolphins sell out? They signed a lot of free agents but none of them got huge deals. Parcells knows what he's doing and that team is on the way up. Long, Langford, Merling, D. Thomas are all good young players and that team is on the rise and will be very good in the years ahead.

'Hamas' Jenkins 11-09-2008 08:03 PM

You really should watch that video if you question his strength.


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