Cannibal:

No one, not even Elvis is forgiving his Int's in ANY game. But quite frankly he is NEVER going to be INT.-proof as no QB, even the best are.

I don't proclaim Elvis anything more a QB have a good year, doing the things that everyone bashed him for not doing last year. If we can't be satisfied that he has improved over last year, and is no longer being held on a leash by Jimmy Raye then nothing will make you happy.

I am just glad we didn't play that stupid MartyBall and try to cram it down their throats. If Elvis throwing a pick or two in a game is a direct result of us opening up the offense and it still results in a win then give me that over that stupid 3 running plays and a punt.

Now as for the QBOTF, the guy I told you about last week from Clemson had 230 yards rushing with TD's and 154 yards passing with 1 TD thru the air in the game against Virginia.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Elvis has improved, no doubt about that.

But he's still int prone, very inaccurate and very immobile.

Right now, all he should be doing is holding down the fort until we find an explosive playmaking QBOTF IMO.

We'll see what Woody Dantzler can do when the year is finished. Right now, he doens't look like he excells enough in the passing game IMO. He certainly doesn't look any better than Vick at this point.

Cannibal,

Do you think that a Michael Vick would do well in a KC type offense. Personally I do not, I think that he would become another Steve Fuller for us. Maybe we could convince him to become our halfback (just kidding). I was called a racist the last time I made that suggestion. The guy IMO just does not fit our teams profile.

Assuming (God forbid) that KC's coaching staff remains intact next year, what kind of QB was Raye at Michigan St., mobile or pocket passer?

IMO Vick is one of those rare talents that you shape your system around, not vice versa.

If you're referring to the "complexity" of the KC offense, I don't think Vick has anything to worry about there because no offense could be more simple than KC's.

All he'd have to do is look for his targets [like all other QB’s] and if there was nothing there, tuck it away and pick up 15 to 20 yards on the ground.

Despite what people think, he can throw the ball. He can zing frozen ropes on out patterns and he can throw play action bombs... he even has touch in the redzone on fade patterns. He can do it all. I very seriously doubt he'd be anymore hampered by the KC offense than Grbac is. But Vick can improvise when things breakdown and that is important in today's game.

Look at what Minnesota is doing w/ Daunte. <BR>

Clint - I would rather have a QB that can sprint then a sprinter who can QB, I'm not sure if that makes a lot of sense. In other words I want someone who thinks to run last, but isn't afraid to do so, and gets yards. Grbac will do it, but only gets 1-4 yards if absolutly pressed to do so, it is amazing how slow that guy is moving forward. That being said, if he keeps this up I expect to see him around for a while.

I wonder about DA. At times he makes great plays, then another time his head is not in the game. As far as Grbac, he is not my ideal QB, but then Sonny Jurgensen, Billy Kilmer, Jack Kemp etc etc were not ideal either. I have waited for the leader to come out (which is what the afore mentioned were) and I can see signs of that.

Cannibal:

Considering the fact that I live in an area where I get to see a great deal of both Vick and Dantzler, right now I would take Dantzler first.

I have said this once before, but it bears repeating. Vick puts way too much air under the ball which he may get away with in College ball but the Pro's will eat up. Second, Vick has, at times, had the ability to completely disappear at crucial times.

Dantzler on the other hand is mobile, can run when necessary and has a pretty good arm. As Cormac has pointed out he also has a pretty good Coach in Terry Bowden who is honing his skills.

Sorry if I am not going to fall into the category of coveting Michael Vick, but to tell you the truth they were spouting the same stuff about Quincy Carter from Georgia last year and look what has happened to him this year.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Vick certainly didn't disappear in the National Championship game against Florida St. He almost single handedly won the National Title.

Vick is also young. I believe at this point he still only 19 years old. If he chooses to enter the draft he'll only be 20 when he enters the league. He does put alot of air under his throws, but that can be changed through coaching. What you can't teach is natural arm strength and he does have tremendous arm strength. He will only get better barring any unforeseen injury or trouble w/ the law.

As for Danzler, he just doesn't put enough passing numbers for me. Right now he looks like a RB playing QB.

Cannibal:

If you are a Heisman candidate you should stand out in the National Title game, but where is he in the games that seem meaningless. That is what is my problem with him. You gotta play ALL THE TIME, not just when the spotlight is bright. You are right, he could be good, but there have been many like him that fizzle when they come to the Pro's.

As for Dantzler, the reason he spends so much time running is because:

1)HE CAN

2)The offensive weapons for Clemson are pretty limited, so he has no real go-to guy.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Dantzler probably won't even be drafted until at least round 5, if at all. There are numerous QBs that are more talented and polished than Woody.

Brees, Vick, Tuiasosopo, Carter (GA.), Randle El...I'd even be tempted to take a guy like Applewhite or Wenke (2 years ago) over Woody.

Dantzler is not in Vick's league. No way.

[This message has been edited by Clint in Wichita (edited 09-26-2000).]

Who is Vick's go to guy?

Those run/pass QB's should put up stats like Bishop used to IMO.

300 yards passing and 100 yards rushing. At least then you know the guy can throw the ball.

200 yards rushing and only 100 yards passing is not something I'd like to see out of my QB.

Most draft publications have Vick [if he chooses to come out] going in the top 10 next year. I've haven't heard Danztler mentioned as being drafted as of yet.

BTW, Vick's supporting cast this year is HORRIBLE compared to last year. IMO he is the only reason they are ranked right now.

Clint:


Pure opinion on your part. This is his first year as the starting QB and has Bowden as a coach. Before the end of his career(he is an underclassmen)he will be a 1st rounder whether he is picked as a RB or QB.

As for Brees, well he seems too inconsistent this year and didn't he have a pretty bad game in the Bowls last year. Carter, well he had a REAL POOR game when he came to South Carolina when UGA lost to the Gamecocks. I have not seen Tuiasosopo so I can't comment on him, but I am not sold on Randle El.

And if you will take Applewhite and Weinke over this guy then what you are saying is that you really want another QB that sits in the pocket and has no mobility.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

[This message has been edited by Mark Kilgore (edited 09-26-2000).]

Cannibal:

As I said in my post to Clint, the reason you have not heard of Dantzler is because this is his first year as the starting QB and because he is an underclassman. He plans to stay at school and get the experience under his belt to hone his skills.

Look for him in the 2002 draft. Then we can discuss whether he is as good or better than Vick.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"