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Debating Herm's Future (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=199044)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5325071)

And I will repeatedly point out that in those three years, he had a General Manager who outright refused to make the moves rebuilding teams should make to turn the team around.

Again, I stand behind getting rid of Herm, but people keep bringing up wins/losses and the failed rebuild without fairly analyzing the situation he was put in.

Oh Herm skipped out on draft day the first two years?

Eric Mangini is in a similar situation. If Mangini can't coach the Jets to win Sun against Miami and get his team to the playoffs, the N.Y. media wants him fired. The is pressure is on -- He better make the SP. If not, he's life will never be the same. lol

As one reporter noted, "And if he doesn’t take some chances and find a way to mix up his play calls to give his players an opportunity to gain some confidence, it won’t really matter. The Jets will not have any chance to make a run at or into the postseason."

Quote:

Bob Glauber, Newsday:
That it has come to this after an 8-3 start is additional evidence that Favre is simply too old to do it, and that coach Eric Mangini is in over his head and should not be retained if the Jets don’t make the playoffs.

Quote:

Mike Vaccaro, New York Post:
Forget the record, now 9-6: It lies. Forget those wins at New England and Tennessee, games that happened so long ago it’s possible Gerry Philbin and George Sauer made the game-winning plays in them. Forget the optical illusion that next week brings. The Patriots aren’t losing. The Ravens aren’t losing. The Jets are as dead as Lehman Brothers.

Quote:

Philip Bondy, New York Daily News
It doesn't take a Mangenius to see Eric's shortcomings as Jets' coach. All season long, Eric Mangini has flatly drummed home his message about consistency and closing. Those are two of his big words, and they soon may be used to condemn the coach whose job is very much hanging in the balance on Sunday.

Quote:

George Willis, New York Daily News
It would be hard to justify his return if the Jets, once 8-3 and conjuring talk of reaching the Super Bowl, complete their stunning collapse by losing to Chad Pennington and the hated Fish. It would mean a 9-7 season and no playoff berth and lots of questions about Mangini's leadership in this, the third year of his four-year contract.

Mangini was thrown off balance today when asked by testy reporters to explain his game plan. Tell if this game plan doesn't sound familiar:

Quote:

Steve Serby, New York Post

Erratic playcalling from Schottenheimer, dating back to running Thomas Jones three straight times inside the 5 against the Pats in Week 2, to the disappearance of Laveranues Coles and Jerricho Cotchery .

Mindless deployment of personnel - Leon Washington, the one weapon who terrifies defensive coordinators, gets one carry against the Bills and scores on a 47-yard touchdown run.

Failing to help his beleaguered defensive coordinator, Bob Sutton, manufacture a pass rush to help that flailing secondary.

Failing to motivate his zombies.

Mangini hardly helped himself with a trifecta of in-game decisions in Seattle that reeked of timidity or cluelessness, or both.

He may have lost the game, his team and the season on the first drive, when the Jets were imposing their will on the Seahawks and faced fourth-and-1 at the 2. Bill Parcells goes for it. Belichick goes for it. Mangini kicks the field goal.

"I anticipated the game being tight, and I thought at that point, being the opening drive, the important thing would be to get points," he said. "I wasn't sure how much the weather would continue to worsen as we went. I really felt like it could come down to three points, so I wanted to get the points on the board at that point, figuring that we had a long time to go, but that was the important thing there."

Why think negatively? Why think the game could be close? Why not try to blow out a 3-11 team? Why not send your team an inspiring message, that you had confidence in Jones, the leading rusher in the AFC, to gain that lousy yard behind what Jones believes is the best offensive line in the game? A field goal in that spot is almost deflating.

So now he had his close game, and following a grievous delay-of-game penalty that took Jay Feely's 45-yard field goal early in the fourth quarter off the board, Mangini, down 10-3, elected to punt. Feely had made 13 consecutive field goals.

"I felt like a 50-yard field goal, if you miss that field goal, you're putting them in very good position," Mangini said.

But even if Feely misses the field goal, why be afraid to trust your defense against ... Seneca Wallace? Seneca Wallace!

Finally, fourth-and-2 at his 20, down 10-3, 2:21 and all three timeouts left, Mangini goes for it. Are you kidding me? Another example of being scared of your defense. Against Seneca Wallace! Instead of a safe pass for the first down, Favre heaves one downfield into double coverage that should have been, but wasn't, caught by Coles.

Now Judgment Day.

Here's the whole article: http://www.nypost.com/seven/12232008...490.htm?page=2

So yes, Herm should be fired... 2-22. You can't go through this another year. I know I can't.

I hope Lia has the family ready to go. Monday is right around the corner.

And to all a good nite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan (Post 5325371)

Nice.

Read the second post. Lord have Mercy.

OMG, I have to wake up soon. LMAO

The funny thing about all that Mangini crap...yes, that's epic failure...the Chiefs are SO FAR AWAY from that point it's just another strike against Herm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan (Post 5325375)

Read the second post. Lord have Mercy.

OMG, I have to wake up soon. LMAO

I think someone has polluted the NY water system with "Mello-Yellow".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claythan (Post 5325298)

No, this isn't ****ing English 101.

Perhaps it is preschool creative writing.

There should be no debate. 2-22 (soon to be 2-23) says it all. Time to go.

Point: Herm is attrocious as HC of the Chiefs evidenced by his record.
Counterpoint:None.

How could anyone discuss Herm that long without killing themselves? Please die Herm. Debate OVER.

This entire thread is pointless. The new GM will bring his own guy in. Herm knows this and that's why he's told his staff to start packing.

Cart before the horse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5325071)

In spite of all Carl's failures, Herm had plenty of chances to win more and hasn't. He's a terrible game-day coach and despite his famous " You play to win the game" BS line, Edwards plays "not to lose." Because of that in part, he has fostered in a losing culture. He thinks his staff has done a fine job and wants to bring back ALL the defensive coaches on the worst defense in the league. Carl has absolutely nothing to do with any of that. It's clearly time for him to go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack (Post 5325365)

Oh Herm skipped out on draft day the first two years?

Actually according to all the Herm supporters, this is true... Carl "FORCED" all those players on draft day upon Herm... Herm is just playing with the Cards that were delt..

But now in 2008, teams are lining up to obtain Herm's services on Draft Day... The NFL commish is allowing the rest of the leagues teams and extra 3 picks in the up comming draft to offset the domination setforth by Herm...

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 5325102)

31 of 32 franchises didn't have a 5-10% success rate in the NFL draft from 1999-2005.
31 of 32 franchises weren't deemed to be the oldest team in the NFL before they were forced to rebuild.
31 of 32 franchises didn't have a GM who has a long history of repatching teams instead of rebuilding
Most of the 31 of 32 franchises get top 5 draft picks. In 2005 and 2006, when the Chiefs should have blown the team up and rebuilt, the Chiefs ended up with picks #20 and #22--two picks that have a considerably lower success rate, especially once you get to the second round and beyond

We keep comparing the Chiefs to 31 of 32 other teams, but the situation the Chiefs were put in was far worse than anything I've seen any team encounter since the Titans faced it about 5 years ago. This was a team that during the Vermeil era let the entire roster get to 30+ years of age, whiffed on almost every free agent pickup, drafted at about a 5% success rate, and let the cap balloon close to the limit. Those indicators made failure a given. And worse, the GM held back every effort to blow the team up and start over again.

That's not typical. That is an extremely high level of dysfunction from the front office that is finally being dealt with now.

I'd recommend that you stop trying to point out the obvious to Reerun.

He only sees one thing when evaluating the Chiefs: W/L.

Nothing else matters, so you're wasting your time.