Um, Ford is ranked as high as Toyota now in initial quality. Wouldn't call it garbage.

Not a stock one in the bunch.

Initial quality is nearly meaningless.

The geometry was bad with these things the high center of gravity and narrow wheelbase made then prone to flipping when other SUV's would not.

In a deposition taken of a Ford engineer, James Mason, Mr. Mason reluctantly admitted (when confronted with Ford documents) that in 1989 he recommended that the Explorer be lowered and widened to increase stability. This recommendation was the result of internal testing by Ford that showed the vehicle was subject to rollover in accident avoidance maneuvers.

In the deposition taken in Hall-Edwards v. Ford, a case in Dade County, Florida, Mr. Mason explained that the reason the vehicle was not made more stable was that Ford did not want to delay the introduction of the Explorer. Accordingly, Ford produced a vehicle they knew was unstable in order to maximize their profits. They did indeed maximize profits; unfortunately, at the cost of hundreds of lives and serious injuries.

In 2006 in a Ford Explorer rollover trial, evidence was introduced that indicated that the Explorer is unstable not only on Firestone tires but also on tires made by Goodyear, Cooper, Michelin's Uniroyal, BF Goodrich, Kelly Springfield, Continental General and other tire manufacturers.

Riiiight. Who wants a quality vehicle? Not me. Give me a GM.

I don't think you know what "initial quality" means. It means, at delivery, nothing is obviously ****ed up on the car. Big deal, that should be a given.

Back in the 70's I was had a part time job as a parking valet at a disco on the plaza. I was pulling a Ford in to the garage when another car pulled up behind me. I put the Ford into park and got out and stood in front of the car that had just pulled in. About 5 - 10 seconds later the Ford just popped into reverse pinning me between it and the car behind it. Eventually the driver of the rear car realized what was happening when I fell over on the Ford trunk cause my legs were being crushed.

Not long after that I saw a report about Fords having problems going into reverse from park all on their own. My shins were crushed so bad that I couldn't touch them and they were like that for probably close to 10 years after.

I currently have a Toyota 4runner but have never had a problem with it.

I'm going to look for some wood to knock on.

:shrug: So, you asked to see one off pavement. There you go. And I actually see several that, if not stock, are very close to stock.
If you hung out with 4X4’ers you could say the exact same thing about their Fords, Chevys, Dodges, the few Toyotas and Nissans you’d see, and yes even Jeeps. Modifying ones rig to be more capable is part of wheeling.

WTF is initial quality anyway? Sounds like a pretty subjective issue. What are the criteria?

I f***ing hate the car commercials proclaiming that. Or "best in its class" when all they have to do is create some new BS class to claim that. Every freaking car is "best in its class". Stupid mother****ers. I hate them.

yeah, if I hung out with 4X4'ers. :rolleyes: A ford explorer is nothing more than a 4 wheel drive minivan.

Before they became popular and degraded down to a glorified minivan, “high center of gravity and narrow wheelbase” described every SUV. Ever heard of the Narrow Track CJ Jeeps? Know how prone they were to rollover?

I would agree with his assessment.
In fact, I believe that is exactly what Ford wound up doing to “fix” the rollover problem, lowered the center of gravity and gave it a stiffer suspension for a more car like drive.
Thus reducing its capabilities off road, where SUV’s originated.

FYP.

Edit: In fact that goes for modern SUV's in general, not just Fords.

I don't care about initial quality either. I want to know about the level of quality over about 150,000 miles.

Dude, Ford wanted it to appeal to the masses, right? Didn't it say they ignored warnings about instability to make profits? I don't think Ford's target market with Explorers was a few hardcore off-roaders. Please.

You guys are spelling it wrong. It is E-x-p-l-o-d-e-r.