Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 6415922)

"clutchiness"

Jeter's post-season slash stats -- .313/.383/.479; OPS of 863

Edmonds post-season slash stats -- .274/361/874; OPS of 874

And Jeter's 'clutch' moments, while there are many, aren't any more incredible than Edmonds'. The Cardinals wouldn't have won a pennant in 2004 or 2006 without him, or the WS in 2006. Not to mention their runs in 2001 and 2002. Pujols was a metronome, but when the Cardinals were really making noise, it was because Jim Edmonds was on his game. Folks outside of STL don't really realize this, but it's absolutely true.

Jeter's a product of being in 138 post-season games by virtue of playing for a team that prints its own money. Now he's still a HOFer because he's a superlative offensive SS, but CF is really the OF version of SS, both players are incredibly important to the defense. Defensively, it's no contest; Jeter's average at best while Edmonds rates historically well.

Offensively they're simply much different players, but Edmonds more than holds his own and is, IMO, the more valuable offensive player over the course of their careers. Jeter's a top of the order hitter playing in front of the best lineup in baseball and still doesn't score as many runs per AB as Edmonds did. Edmonds has more RBI than Jeter in 2000(!) fewer ABs. Jeter was clearly a base-stealer wheras Edmonds was not, but if the point in stealing bases is to get in scoring position, wouldn't those SBs be offset by the fact that Edmonds was still the superior run-scorer? He was certainly a better run-producer. Even if you don't think Edmonds was clearly a better offensive player (though I don't see how), they're obviously in the same ballpark.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Jim Edmonds would be a MFing GOD had he played in the Bronx. They're comparable from a 'clutch' standpoint, comparable from an offensive standpoint and there's no contest when it comes to defense.

It really is critical to recognize that all these #s weren't coming from some flash in the pan left fielder or lumbering 1b. These came from arguably the best defensive CFer in baseball (again, based on the Bill James fielding bible and other metrics, not to mention ones own eyes). To get that combination of elite offense and superb defense from such an incredibly important defensive position only happens a couple of times/decade.

All told, Edmonds was underappreciated throughout his career.

Originally Posted by penchief (Post 6416005)

I'm not knocking Edmonds. I never was. I was taking exception to your claim that Jeter was a "miserable" defensive infielder. That is simply not so. Miserable defensive players don't win four gold gloves. It's also not true that he is merely "average." He may not be the slickest SS in the game but he has proven to be better than average.

As I said before, you can't measure Jeter by statistics alone. You point to the playoff stats and clearly both Jeter and Edmonds have been superb. That said, I was referring more to Jeter's knack for being in the middle of crucial plays and always having his head in the game at the right time making the great play when it is needed most.

Jeter is a great all-round player. He's a great baserunner in addition to being a good fielder and excellent hitter. One attribute that is underrated is consistency. Nobody has been more consistent than Jeter. Dude has only batted lower than .300 twice in his career. And the lowest he has ever batted has been .292. He may be the only active player who has a legitimate shot at coming anywhere near Pete Rose's hit record.

I'm not saying that Edmonds is not worthy of consideration but to say that he should go in ahead of Jeter is something I just can't agree with.