I believe what you are interpreting is that if there is a vehicle in front of you in an intersection, you can't just slam into them because they are there. Also, it's not black and white. Each motorists in the scenario I described have degrees of fault. But the motorist making the left turn is not completely fault free. Admittedly, when I handled auto losses they weren't from the East Coast and it was up to 8 years ago, but generally it is similar state to state in these issues. I think we can all agree that nobody is expected to stop on their green light, to allow someone INTO THE INTERSECTION in front of you who is trying to make a left turn.

I assure you though, and not even through my decisions but the ones I read from other arbitrators and court proceedings, that these are almost always comparative negligence cases. The person making the left hand turn is almost NEVER fault free. Hell, you can run a red light in a huge intersection (say 3 lanes in each direction) and had made it to the 5th or 6th land and was hit in the side. There can be an argument for comparative negligence there (negligence on both parties) even though someone ran a red light.

From my experience if you are able to avoid the accident and make no effort to do so it's shared/no fault.

Absolutely.

lol, nice attempt to spin. When you are making a left turn at a stoplight, you have the right to enter the intersection to await that turn. This is legal and encouraged, and not dangerous or discouraged as you mentioned previously. If, while in the intersection, the light turns red, you are legally able to complete your turn through the red. Until that happens, YOU HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY, meaning your earlier t-boning example was also bullshit.

I don't mean to be a dick but you honestly should have your license revoked. People like you are the reason auto insurance has skyrocketed since cell phones have become common.

And also, as I understand it, any vehicles already in the intersection have the right of way at the change of light until they leave it.

Not at all times but if they are in there and the light changes on them...

100% agree PLUS all the stupid illegal immigrants in the plain white box vans with ladders, scaffolding, or paint supplies on their roof do as well.

If we review California handbook (www.dmv.ca.gov), "A solid green light means “GO.” If you are turning left, make the turn only if you have enough space to complete the turn before creating a hazard for any oncoming vehicle, bicyclist, or pedestrian. Do not enter the intersection if you cannot get completely across before the light turns red. If you block the intersection, you can be cited."

So this this appears different than NY.

Kansas handbook says:
The driver of a vehicle turning left must yield the right-of-way to vehicles approaching from the opposite direction.

Also, a large reason auto insurance rates are so high is because each state makes each insurance company insure a certain percentage of drivers based on their policies in force in each state. The state FORCES the insurance company to take drivers who are clearly unprofitable. What does that mean? It means that the cost is passed along to good drivers, who are more profitable.

What I was indicating is comparative negligence. The entering an intersection to turn left before you know if you can make it, then turning left trying to make it between the gap of red lights is almost always comparative negligence. It's just that most people (like all of you) just assume it's always 100% one person's fault.

Luckily, I don't have to argue with people about this stuff anymore. I'm not in that field anymore. But that is how it's looked at and how it works.

Use a little basic reasoning here. The first part is saying don't start turning left until you're clear through oncoming traffic. Entering an intersection to prepare for a turn isn't making a turn.

The second part is clearly in regard to traveling straight through an intersection, and to prevent traffic backup from backing up into an intersection. When turning left, you will not be blocking the intersection, as you can clear it as soon as oncoming traffic is stopped.

lol, seriously? That's saying don't turn into oncoming traffic, which isn't even related to this conversation.

Yeah I fully acknowledge driving in the left lane indefinitely can be against the law. They even put signs up. But speeding is also against the law. Following someone too close is also against the law. What is annoying is when I'm in the process of passing someone, but since I'm not going 85 like the other guy, they get right up on my ass creating an unsafe situation.

I once left a post saying this on another thread just to piss people off. It looks like I did.

Hate them and wish they'd die in an AIDSNADO!!