OK I LOL'd

We've drafted one second round qb in that time frame

You know what else sets franchises back years? Elvis Grbac and Matt Cassel

Chiefs playoff wins since Carl and Marty took over: 4

QBs drafted in the first two rounds with more playoff wins since then: 12

Total playoff wins by those QBs: 90

Total SB wins: 14 of the last 28

So...what odds do you want to play going forward?

Exactly, why go out of your way to make things harder on yourself

:clap::clap::clap:

If I get time I will add second rounders to the OP. Names you will see include Brett Favre, Drew Breese, Derek Carr, and Pat Barnes

Mike Elkins, Matt Blundin.

I got blundin and Barnes confused

barnes was a fourth rounder, IIRC, who was tony gonzalez' college QB.

The unfortunate reality is that you need to get lucky to get a great QB, and nowadays the NFL -- due to various rules changes -- have made it VERY hard to be in contention for winning the SB if you DON'T have a great QB.

Lucky in that either someone NOBODY thinks is going to be all that slides to you (Brady, Rodgers, Wilson), or in that you are the worst team in the NFL **AND** an elite QB is available at the top of the draft that year (Peyton, Luck (?) etc.).

The NFL has made it harder to win with defense, and harder to win with special teams, which narrows the focus to winning via offense, which invariably means through the QB. The 1980s NFC East dominated but not through exceptional QB play. Simms and those nobodies that Gibbs won with after Thiesman weren't anyone's idea of Montana or Marino.

There has also been a decline in the quality of coaching, IMHO. Bedard wrote a long piece on this for MMQB a while back. In the 80s you had guys like Walsh, Gibbs, Shula, Parcells, Bud Grant, Landry and others butting heads. Now there isn't a single person on the planet that doesn't think Belichick is far and away #1. How many other HOF coaches are roaming hte sidelines right now? Pete Carroll maybe. Who else? Sean Payton's star has dimmed. Does anyone think Mike McCarthy is really that awesome? I think highly of John Harbaugh and Bruce Arians, but are they Hall-bound? Bottom line, it's ALOT thinner than the 80s.

So once again, the difference-maker is at the QB position. Just unfortunate, I think, that the importance of the quarterback position has now come to dominate everything in the NFL.

Though I agree on the coaches thing, I've heard some suggestions that a lot of the issue these days is that recent CBAs have severely limited how much time teams can demand of players in practice, so it's much harder to coach guys up.

I could also buy that the game has simply matured to the point that most reasonable ideas have all been tried, so it's hard to be innovative and catch the league off guard anymore.

Blundin was the one who never did anything at all for us.

Or was that Barnes?

Correct on both counts.

I think alot of it is the power shifting to the players due to increased salary. Very few teams have what the Patriots have -- players that fear their head coach. Usually, if it's between the players and the coach, the coach is the one that will get bounced. Too many high priced contracts, etc. This is a bigger problem in baseball and basketball, due to the guaranteed contracts, but most coaches aren't immune to it even in football.

But in New England, all the players know (1) he ain't leaving until he retires, and (2) if you don't perform, you get your ass shipped to Cleveland. Literally. They also believe and buy into the system due to the SBs he won.

The other thing Belichick does, better than anyone else, is play players based purely on merit. If the undrafted FA is outplaying the 1st round pick, then the undrafted FA gets the playing time. He is immune to media or fans screaming that he wasted a draft pick or whatever. Most GMs/coaches either can't afford the criticism or don't like to hear it, so they give in and play/keep the guy they drafted.

Belichick is very lucky in many ways. Kraft is a hands-off owner, and he bought himself so much goodwill by winning a few SBs early that he became immune to criticism. Without those SBs, he could act exactly the same but might've been bounced.