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-   -   Chiefs If the Chiefs go 8-8 or better 49ers get a 2nd round pick. (https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=272817)

Ebolapox 05-06-2013 12:37 PM
chiefs fans: shoot for the moon, settle for two inches off the ground.

BigCatDaddy 05-06-2013 12:37 PM
If people are expecting Alex Smith to come in and look like Trent Green then I can see why there is such a divide on CP about the guy and compensation.

beer bacon 05-06-2013 12:38 PM
Alex Smith is not a QB that will ever win a Super Bowl. No team that has Alex Smith as their starting QB will win a Super Bowl. We traded one second and very possibly another second for Alex Smith, who will never win us a Super Bowl. We have not drafted QB in the first round in 30 years. We have numerous times traded picks for other team's trash/backups and made them our starters. This has never won us a Super Bowl. We have not win a playoff game in 20 years. During that time, we have never drafted a QB in the first round but we have on numerous occasions traded for or signed another team's castoff and made him our starting QB. We are putting ourselves farther away from a Super Bowl in exchange for a mediocre QB that will get us some 8-8 seasons and put butts in the seats.

Hootie 05-06-2013 12:38 PM
my whole thought process was Alex Smith was somewhere between the two Trent's (Dilfer and Green)...

if he reaches his ceiling (Green), it was a damn good trade

and I think we've built an offense and have the right coaches for him to be able to play at that level

and I'll take 3 more years of Trent Green over Brady ****ing Quinn 1000 times out of 1000

patteeu 05-06-2013 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy (Post 9661832)
Well, I guess it is official now....the Chiefs got fleeced on the trade. Paid way too much for a qb nobody wanted in free agency the year before.

The Niners come out smelling like roses...if the Chiefs do well, the get a mid to late second...and if the Chiefs stink...then they will get a high third.
Are you saying that a 2nd + 3rd was fine, but a 2nd + 2nd was getting fleeced?

HemiEd 05-06-2013 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 9661937)
So now Peyton Manning is the standard? If a quarterback isn't Peyton Manning, he's not worth acquiring?

News flash: There were no Peyton Mannings or Joe Montanas available this year either in free agency or the draft. The closest thing out there is going to start for the Chiefs next season.
Yes, I want my team to aspire for excellence, instead of leaping at mediocrity, like they have been doing for the last 27 years since Montana hung it up. This year is just the latest version of a long term trend, and I don't see it changing.

The fact that the Chiefs refuse to try to find a QB of their own is my problem.

Oh, lets throw and occasional 3 or 5th at one, and let him sit on the bench until we do it again. Hey we drafted a QB!

patteeu 05-06-2013 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 9661867)
There is the problem.
With the best running game in the NFL, Trent Green didn't win a playoff game. I don't want to settle for another Trent Green.

But hey, at least they had that 13 and 3 season and the 9 and 7 back into the playoffs year! Woot!

Now cue up the "defense sucked so bad that they didn't win in the playoffs" posts. Last I checked, the Colts didn't make the Chiefs punt either, but they won!
You can try to dismiss that important factor, but I'm sure you remember those days when most of us here at CP thought that all we needed was a Branden Albert quality defense (arguably top ten, but no worse than above average) and we'd have ourselves a legitimate Super Bowl contender.

Hootie 05-06-2013 12:45 PM
I still contend that, with a healthy Willie Roaf, we were absolutely a super bowl caliber team in 2005.

patteeu 05-06-2013 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiliConCarnage (Post 9661874)
are you carrying on one conversation as Hootie in this thread... ?

and another as the Talking Can?


you both have the exact same posting style and it's pretty unique...

you both like to use ellipses a lot even before or after questions marks

you tend to use lower case letters to start new sentences but capitalize nouns

you like to post in quick sentences a lot followed by double or triple spaces

I can't imagine any person doing that but when scrolling through this thread they looked incredibly similar
I'd like to think The Talking Can is just a wacky character someone's playing rather than a real person who believes the thing he's posting, but I don't think so.

Sweet Daddy Hate 05-06-2013 12:45 PM
Flags are rising, sirens are going off, Red October is skimming the coastline. Strike One...confirmed.
Posted via Mobile Device

Hootie 05-06-2013 12:46 PM
and more to that point

had we gotten the 6 over the Steelers there wasn't a team in the AFC that would have wanted to face us in the playoffs

our run game with LJ that year was literally unstoppable...had he played the entire year over Priest he would have simply shattered the single season rushing record and it wouldn't have been close

Alex Smith 4Ever 05-06-2013 12:54 PM
Chiefs are going 10-6 or better

Alex Smith doesn't turn the ball over ever

ChiefsCountry 05-06-2013 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootie (Post 9661964)
which is all fine and dandy if you try and forget Drew Brees was a bust and San Diego drafted Eli Manning

he was benched for Doug Flutie

they gave up on him

Rivers' holdout gave him one last chance and he took it and ran.
And Brees put up numbers very similar to Green expect for that disaster that was 2003 season. A young quarterback taking grow pains is expected everywhere but Kansas City.

But a young Drew Brees going into his prime with LJ in his prime. Damn.

Spott 05-06-2013 12:57 PM
Dang, I thought the trade was horrible before I found out that we were trading a 3rd round pick next year for that scrub. What a waste of draft picks.

BigBeauford 05-06-2013 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Smith 4Ever (Post 9662017)
Chiefs are going 10-6 or better

Alex Smith doesn't turn the ball over ever
Correct. He prefers to instead take 50 drive killing sacks.

-King- 05-06-2013 01:04 PM
The argument just went from "Alex Smith is a winning QB! Look at his last two years and how he led the 49ers to the playoffs"

to

"8-8 is a HUGE improvement! We only won 2 games last year! We should be happy with 8-8"

HemiEd 05-06-2013 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9661982)
You can try to dismiss that important factor, but I'm sure you remember those days when most of us here at CP thought that all we needed was a Branden Albert quality defense (arguably top ten, but no worse than above average) and we'd have ourselves a legitimate Super Bowl contender.
No doubt about it, and I can't argue with that. I wasn't pissed off by the 30 year pattern then, because it was only a 20 year pattern.

But they didn't have that defense, they threw a first at Trent Green and signed a bunch of veterans. I loved DV at the time, but he didn't like rookies or kickers.

Heck, they didn't even take a first or second round pick that one year, maybe two, but Junior Siavii was a feel good story.

I hated Herm Edwards, but his picks are the reason this team is as good as it is right now.

What was DV's/Carl's first move? Trading a first for a recycled QB.
*****/Haley? Trading a high second (34) for a recycled QB.
Reid/Dorsey? Trading a high second (34+?) for a recycled QB.

I don't even want to rehash the Bono, Grbac etc. moves.

Oh yeah, they are going to do it next year for sure!

mnchiefsguy 05-06-2013 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9661973)
Are you saying that a 2nd + 3rd was fine, but a 2nd + 2nd was getting fleeced?
Either way, San Fran got the much better end of the deal. 2nd + 3rd is too much, but occasionally you have to overpay to get what you want. Two second rounders is significantly overpaying...so to make that trade a success, the Chiefs need to make the playoffs and win a game this year. Not sure I see that happening.

So in short....a 2 + 3rd was not quite "fine", but was not awful. Two seconds makes the trade awful, barring a Super Bowl appearance.

KCDC 05-06-2013 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootie (Post 9661842)
how is Alex Smith a shitty QB?

he is what he is

but people are grossly overreacting about how "bad" he is

some of you people are just miserable human beings
Alex is a known commodity, so it is fair to judge him. He has had 6 years of bad and two years of decent.

I think even his defenders admit he is not a franchise QB. Shaub is a franchise QB. Two second rounders for a franchise QB is okay. What you are hearing is a preference to take a chance with an unknown that COULD be a star versus taking a known mediocre placeholder that will prevent us from looking hard for his replacement.

HemiEd 05-06-2013 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootie (Post 9661994)
and more to that point

had we gotten the 6 over the Steelers there wasn't a team in the AFC that would have wanted to face us in the playoffs

our run game with LJ that year was literally unstoppable...had he played the entire year over Priest he would have simply shattered the single season rushing record and it wouldn't have been close
Ifs and Butts, nobody has a longer list of those than us Chiefs fans.

If only Tony hadn't been called for Offensive Pass interference! If only the Broncos hadn't cheated. If only DV had gotten Ty Law and Hugh Douglas!

I want a QB that hasn't already reached his ceiling in the NFL prior to wearing the Red and Gold. Is that too much to ask? It appears so.

-King- 05-06-2013 01:24 PM
Even if he was good it's still risky to trade those picks for him. The guy can't stay on the field. Tony Moeaki has been in the league 5 less years than him and has the same number of complete seasons played. And we call him injury prone. Smart money says Alex Smith doesn't play all 16 games this season.

Rudy tossed tigger's salad 05-06-2013 01:25 PM
I can't even imagine the meltdown if this team is 7-8 and wins the last meaningless game

Lex Luthor 05-06-2013 01:25 PM
Just so that there's no misunderstanding, I agree that the Chiefs paid too much for Alex Smith. Two second round draft picks just sounds like way too much.

The difference is that I'm not ready to lynch Reid and Dorsey for doing it. I hope Alex Smith outperforms his expectations. If he doesn't, then I'll wait and see how everything else goes for the next couple of years before passing judgment one way or the other.

It's entirely possible that in the long run the Alex Smith trade will turn out to be a failure but the vast majority of the other moves Reid and Dorsey make will turn out to be successes. No GM hits on every decision, and it's too early to condemn Reid and Dorsey. Like I've said many times, their teams haven't played a game yet.

patteeu 05-06-2013 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy (Post 9662069)
Either way, San Fran got the much better end of the deal. 2nd + 3rd is too much, but occasionally you have to overpay to get what you want. Two second rounders is significantly overpaying...so to make that trade a success, the Chiefs need to make the playoffs and win a game this year. Not sure I see that happening.

So in short....a 2 + 3rd was not quite "fine", but was not awful. Two seconds makes the trade awful, barring a Super Bowl appearance.
OK. It's cheaper than what the Chiefs paid for Trent Green, fwiw. I think it will be well worth it if the Chiefs offense performs as well under Alex Smith as it did under Trent Green.

Hoover 05-06-2013 01:28 PM
Look, I don't like giving up two second round picks, but Geno Smith was never going to be QBing this team in 2013. So would you rather have Matt Flynn?

I'm interested to see how this team looks on the field. Shit, every move they have made looks like they are in a "win it now" mode, so I don't know why you are all so shocked.

-King- 05-06-2013 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 9662115)
Just so that there's no misunderstanding, I agree that the Chiefs paid too much for Alex Smith. Two second round draft picks just sounds like way too much.

The difference is that I'm not ready to lynch Reid and Dorsey for doing it. I hope Alex Smith outperforms his expectations. If he doesn't, then I'll wait and see how everything else goes for the next couple of years before passing judgment one way or the other.

It's entirely possible that in the long run the Alex Smith trade will turn out to be a failure but the vast majority of the other moves Reid and Dorsey make will turn out to be successes. No GM hits on every decision, and it's too early to condemn Reid and Dorsey. Like I've said many times, their teams haven't played a game yet.
I actually still like Reid. I think him alone gives us a 3-4 win improvement. But I'm souring on Dorsey. It seems like evertime he tries to make a deal with another team, they get the better end of the deal.

Sweet Daddy Hate 05-06-2013 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCDC (Post 9662093)
Alex is a known commodity, so it is fair to judge him. He has had 6 years of bad and two years of decent.

I think even his defenders admit he is not a franchise QB. Shaub is a franchise QB. Two second rounders for a franchise QB is okay. What you are hearing is a preference to take a chance with an unknown that COULD be a star versus taking a known mediocre placeholder that will prevent us from looking hard for his replacement.
This.
Posted via Mobile Device

Lex Luthor 05-06-2013 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9662133)
I actually still like Reid. I think him alone gives us a 3-4 win improvement. But I'm souring on Dorsey. It seems like evertime he tries to make a deal with another team, they get the better end of the deal.
I'd say the sample size on that is pretty small.

mnchiefsguy 05-06-2013 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9662117)
OK. It's cheaper than what the Chiefs paid for Trent Green, fwiw. I think it will be well worth it if the Chiefs offense performs as well under Alex Smith as it did under Trent Green.
I think Trent Green was a better quarterback. If Alex Smith raises his play to Trent's level, then that is a discussion that can take place.

-King- 05-06-2013 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 9662140)
I'd say the sample size on that is pretty small.
It is, but it's the truth so far.

BlackHelicopters 05-06-2013 01:33 PM
3-13

-King- 05-06-2013 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9662117)
OK. It's cheaper than what the Chiefs paid for Trent Green, fwiw. I think it will be well worth it if the Chiefs offense performs as well under Alex Smith as it did under Trent Green.
Why do people keep acting like Alex Smith is Trent Green?

Green before coming here had a 3400 yard 23 TD season, and a 5 start season in which he had 2000 yards and 16 TDs. Alex Smith has never had that type of production in his career.

HemiEd 05-06-2013 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 9662115)
Just so that there's no misunderstanding, I agree that the Chiefs paid too much for Alex Smith. Two second round draft picks just sounds like way too much.

The difference is that I'm not ready to lynch Reid and Dorsey for doing it. I hope Alex Smith outperforms his expectations. If he doesn't, then I'll wait and see how everything else goes for the next couple of years before passing judgment one way or the other.
Amazing coincidence isn't it, how every GM/HC keep doing the same thing? Amazing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 9662115)
It's entirely possible that in the long run the Alex Smith trade will turn out to be a failure but the vast majority of the other moves Reid and Dorsey make will turn out to be successes. No GM hits on every decision, and it's too early to condemn Reid and Dorsey. Like I've said many times, their teams haven't played a game yet.
The Chiefs have been failing on the most important position decision since Lenny the cool. Montana was awesome, but he was damaged goods for only two years.

HemiEd 05-06-2013 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop (Post 9662150)
3-13
Hopefully Dorsey worked a clause in the trade that the Chiefs get the 49ers 1st if that happens.

patteeu 05-06-2013 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy (Post 9662141)
I think Trent Green was a better quarterback. If Alex Smith raises his play to Trent's level, then that is a discussion that can take place.
If Alex Smith raises his play to Trent's level, the discussion will be over.

patteeu 05-06-2013 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9662152)
Why do people keep acting like Alex Smith is Trent Green?

Green before coming here had a 3400 yard 23 TD season, and a 5 start season in which he had 2000 yards and 16 TDs. Alex Smith has never had that type of production in his career.
Because both are guys that a new Chiefs regime hand picked and traded for to lead their team. I don't think the statistics that each of them racked up with their previous teams, under dramatically different offensive philosophies has much to do with it.

-King- 05-06-2013 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9662192)
Because both are guys that a new Chiefs regime hand picked and traded for to lead their team. I don't think the statistics that each of them racked up with their previous teams, under dramatically different offensive philosophies has much to do with it.
Ok then. So the Matt Cassel comparisons are also valid?

BlackHelicopters 05-06-2013 01:48 PM
Smith has one good game and Dorsey and Reid jizz all over and mortgage our future for him.

In58men 05-06-2013 01:48 PM
6-10 baby.

BigCatDaddy 05-06-2013 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9662184)
If Alex Smith raises his play to Trent's level, the discussion will be over.
If my aunt had nuts....

You know, if Vince Young comes in here and starts playing like Peyton Manning I think we might have something fellas!

patteeu 05-06-2013 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9662206)
Ok then. So the Matt Cassel comparisons are also valid?
It depends on what you mean by comparison. You can't say that because Alex Smith is a hand picked QB that a new Chiefs regime traded a draft pick to get just like Matt Cassel that he's the same as Matt Cassel (or the same as Trent Green for that matter). You can say that he's more expensive than Matt Cassel and less expensive than Trent Green though.

Some comparisons are valid and some aren't. Do you want to run a specific one by me for my opinion on the matter?

HemiEd 05-06-2013 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by theelusiveeightrop (Post 9662216)
Smith has one good game and Dorsey and Reid jizz all over and mortgage our future for him.
Well to be fair, they didn't have any real time invested in the team and everyone else has done the same thing when running the Chiefs.

DaFace 05-06-2013 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9662047)
The argument just went from "Alex Smith is a winning QB! Look at his last two years and how he led the 49ers to the playoffs"

to

"8-8 is a HUGE improvement! We only won 2 games last year! We should be happy with 8-8"
Except for the fact that no one is saying that.

HemiEd 05-06-2013 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 9662317)
Except for the fact that no one is saying that.
Have you read the whole thread? BRC's posts?

-King- 05-06-2013 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 9662317)
Except for the fact that no one is saying that.
You sure about that? After a quick search where I just searched the word "improvement"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan (Post 9661141)
This team won 2 games last year. 6 win improvement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainiac (Post 9661332)
You obviously feel that there is no difference between 2-14 and 8-8, and I can certainly understand that viewpoint. Neither one gets you into the playoffs, certainly not with any hope of a deep playoff run. If the ultimate goal of Reid and Dorsey is to simply go 8-8 every year and put as many butts in the seats as possible, then I'm right there with you.

But I think Reid and Dorsey are looking at this in two phases. The first phase is to simply lift the team up to respectability as quickly as possible. Let's face it: Scott ***** destroyed everything and alienated most of the fans. You may not think it's a significant improvement if this team goes 8-8 next year, but I respectfully disagree. The 2-14 debacle of last year was horrific. 8-8 next season is realistically achievable and would stop the hemorrhaging that turned this team into the laughingstock of the NFL. Obviously I would rather see the Chiefs improve from 2-14 to 14-2 next season, but that's just unrealistic. And based upon the apparent lack of real talent in this rookie class, the Chiefs sure as hell wouldn't go 14-2 next year witih a rookie quarterback as the starter.

The second phase will be to build a team for the future, which will include drafting a QBOTF.

Did they overpay for Alex Smith? Yes, obviously. But it sounds like the 49ers took advantage of a seller's market, and it's not really a reach to assume that the teams that wound up picking up the other retread quarterbacks were bidding against the Chiefs for Alex Smith. It was a really bad time to be in the market for a quarterback. Drue Brees wasn't sitting out there as a free agent. Andrew Luck wasn't sitting there waiting to be drafted. Reid and Dorsey made their decision and went with it.

I'm willing to give Reid and Dorsey the benefit of the doubt for now. I hope that the majority of the decisions they make turn out to be good ones, even if I don't necessarily love this one. Time will tell. It's going to take a hell of lot more time than a couple of months in their first offseason to evaluate whether they're total morons, competent, or total ****ing football geniuses. If they go 8-8 and 10-6 in their first two seasons AND they have a promising young quarterback on their roster, I would call that a damn good start.

I know, everything would be rainbows and unicorns if they had drafted Geno Smith and Smith turned out to be the next Aaron Rodgers. But Reid and Dorsey obviously didn't think that highly of Geno or any other quarterback in this draft. The fact that every other GM in the NFL agreed with them gives credibility to their decision making process.

It's fine to make risky draft choices. But if you draft someone just because you wish and hope they'll be great when every evaluation you do tells you otherwise, that's not a risky draft choice. It's a stupid one.

In other words, cool your jets. There will be plenty of time for wailing and gnashing of teeth if Reid and Dorsy fail. In the meantime, all you're doing is driving up each other's blood pressure and you're not accomplishing anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan (Post 9661819)
8-8 would be a huge improvement. Open your eyes this team was competitive in only 4 games in 2012. Everything else was a nightmare.

DaFace 05-06-2013 02:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 9662329)
Have you read the whole thread? BRC's posts?
"Would be an improvement" <> "We should be happy with that"

Especially when the connotation with the latter is that we should be happy with that indefinitely (as opposed to next season).

-King- 05-06-2013 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 9662355)
"Would be an improvement" <> "We should be happy with that"

Especially when the connotation with the latter is that we should be happy with that indefinitely (as opposed to next season).
Um...no.

Valiant 05-06-2013 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Talking Can (Post 9661139)
when is the first time anyone cared about going 8-8?
Most trufans on here.

Beeker 05-06-2013 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HemiEd (Post 9661541)
Butts in the seats


Alex Smith may manage the talented roster into the playoffs, but it won't be because of him.




The worst team in football with 6 pro bowlers, oh yeah it will be because of that trade that the team gets to 10 and 6.
Annnnnnnd ... there it is. Just lie I knew it would be.

DaFace 05-06-2013 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9662364)
Um...no.
My mistake if you truly didn't mean it that way. I've had "we're going to be mediocre forever" around here constantly lately, so that's the way I read it.

RunKC 05-06-2013 02:43 PM
This says they have ultimate faith in Alex. He needs to get this team to the playoffs in the next 2 years at the absolute worst.

I'll consider this a fair deal if he starts winning playoff games.

O.city 05-06-2013 02:48 PM
Meh

Obviously they think pretty highly of him and think he can be really successful here. Have to wait and see.


If he is as successful as they think he will be, 2 2nd rounders are fine.


Maybe they like Bray as the future or something

Bewbies 05-06-2013 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9662573)
Meh

Obviously they think pretty highly of him and think he can be really successful here. Have to wait and see.


If he is as successful as they think he will be, 2 2nd rounders are fine.


Maybe they like Bray as the future or something
If they knew back then they were going to sign Bray as an UDFA to come in after Smith flamed out they're genious. (and reeruned to bank your future on an UDFA)

Bewbies 05-06-2013 02:55 PM
You don't trade 2 2nds for a QB that isn't in your long term plans. Alex Smith is their guy the same was Cassel was Belichick's penis entrance's.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2n66pf.jpg

-King- 05-06-2013 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9662573)
Meh

Obviously they think pretty highly of him and think he can be really successful here. Have to wait and see.
With that logic, you couldn't criticize any move any team made.

Bewbies 05-06-2013 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9662615)
With that logic, you couldn't criticize any move any team made.
And there it is, true fan 101. LMAO

patteeu 05-06-2013 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9662573)
Meh

Obviously they think pretty highly of him and think he can be really successful here. Have to wait and see.


If he is as successful as they think he will be, 2 2nd rounders are fine.


Maybe they like Bray as the future or something
Nobody likes a guy they picked up as an UDFA as the future. He's a lottery ticket at this point. That's all.

Molitoth 05-06-2013 03:03 PM
While I'm proud that this regime understands the importance of the QB position by giving up way too much to get one... they better be right on WHO they gave it up for.

Alex Smith has not shown over the course of his career that he is worth that price tag.

O.city 05-06-2013 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9662615)
With that logic, you couldn't criticize any move any team made.
Sure.

But there isn't really any point in sitting around criticizing the move when we don't yet know the results. Maybe he is worth what we gave up, maybe he sucks.

I guess I'm higher on Smith than most, I think he'll play well. I hate what we gave up, in that I tend to think we bid against ourselves.

This is probably true fan or whatever, but I'm just happy that it looks like we'll be back to respectable in the football world. The last 6 years have been terrible, I guess we have to start somewhere.

It's not where I'd prefer they start, but it is what it is.

O.city 05-06-2013 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9662649)
Nobody likes a guy they picked up as an UDFA as the future. He's a lottery ticket at this point. That's all.
Most cases I would agree, but in Bray's case, it's a little different.

He was a 3rd round predicted guy, that fell due to "issues". Hell, some people actually had him as the best QB in this class. Not sure that says something about Bray, or this class as a whole.

patteeu 05-06-2013 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9662615)
With that logic, you couldn't criticize any move any team made.
No one would have much of a beef with the critics of the Alex Smith trade if you guys just said you don't have any confidence in him and that you think it's a waste of draft picks.

Instead, the critics typically go way beyond that to declare Alex Smith DOA and to accuse anyone who even wants to take a wait and see position on the trade of being happy with mediocrity.

patteeu 05-06-2013 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9662666)
Most cases I would agree, but in Bray's case, it's a little different.

He was a 3rd round predicted guy, that fell due to "issues". Hell, some people actually had him as the best QB in this class. Not sure that says something about Bray, or this class as a whole.
Sure, I get what you're saying. But my take would be that if the Chiefs really saw enough in Bray to "like him as the future" in any real sense of the phrase, they would have spent a draft pick on him, if for no other reason than to gain control of him. Given Bray's physical gifts, I'll amend my position and say that he's like a lottery ticket where you're spotted the powerball number.

O.city 05-06-2013 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9662682)
Sure, I get what you're saying. But my take would be that if the Chiefs really saw enough in Bray to "like him as the future" in any real sense of the phrase, they would have spent a draft pick on him, if for no other reason than to gain control of him. Given Bray's physical gifts, I'll amend my position and say that he's like a lottery ticket where you're spotted the powerball number.
Yep. He must have been really terrible mentally to not get drafted at all. 7th rounders are basically a throwaway.

MTG#10 05-06-2013 03:14 PM
We have two options...either go 7-9 or worse, or win at least one playoff game. Anything else is total fail.

O.city 05-06-2013 03:18 PM
If we go 10-6, win a playoff game, I'd say it was money well spent.

patteeu 05-06-2013 03:20 PM
Unless it turns into a catastrophe or an unmistakable success, I think giving this trade a final grade after one year will be premature. In all likelihood, Alex Smith will get extended and be the Chiefs QB for at least the next 2-3 years.

-King- 05-06-2013 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9662673)
No one would have much of a beef with the critics of the Alex Smith trade if you guys just said you don't have any confidence in him and that you think it's a waste of draft picks.
I've done that.

Quote:
Instead, the critics typically go way beyond that to declare Alex Smith DOA and to accuse anyone who even wants to take a wait and see position on the trade of being happy with mediocrity.
I haven't done any of that.

-King- 05-06-2013 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9662730)
If we go 10-6, win a playoff game, I'd say it was money well spent.
If I buy a lottery ticket and I win, I'd say it was money well spent.

O.city 05-06-2013 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9662757)
Unless it turns into a catastrophe or an unmistakable success, I think giving this trade a final grade after one year will be premature. In all likelihood, Alex Smith will get extended and be the Chiefs QB for at least the next 2-3 years.
I don't think he's extended until next offseason, if he is, so you'll likely know by then.

O.city 05-06-2013 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9662780)
If I buy a lottery ticket and I win, I'd say it was money well spent.
That isn't really the same thing.

Most thought this was a borderline playoff team with the talent last year. We upgraded this offseason.

I don't see why we can't be a playoff team. If we aren't, this move was obviously the wrong move.

-King- 05-06-2013 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9662800)
That isn't really the same thing.

Most thought this was a borderline playoff team with the talent last year. We upgraded this offseason.

I don't see why we can't be a playoff team. If we aren't, this move was obviously the wrong move.
If we were a borderline playoff team last year then adding a 29 year old QB should make us a lock for the playoffs and maybe a playoff win.

We're neither. That's why this trade was stupid.

O.city 05-06-2013 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by -King- (Post 9662816)
If we were a borderline playoff team last year then adding a 29 year old QB should make us a lock for the playoffs and maybe a playoff win.

We're neither. That's why this trade was stupid.
Sure.


But judging by what they gave up, it looks like the FO think they are or they have a chance to be.

So, I'm going to have the same expectation I guess, I dunno, I'm just not going to get too awful worked up about it. I'll just be happy to see meaningful football in KC where we could/will actually beat good teams and the chance to win in the playoffs.

HemiEd 05-06-2013 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 9662673)
No one would have much of a beef with the critics of the Alex Smith trade if you guys just said you don't have any confidence in him and that you think it's a waste of draft picks.

Instead, the critics typically go way beyond that to declare Alex Smith DOA and to accuse anyone who even wants to take a wait and see position on the trade of being happy with mediocrity.
I think many of us critics hope like heck that we are wrong! I sure do!

I have tried repeatedly to remain positive when they keep doing the same darn thing over and over again.

Pretty soon you have to look the horse right in the mouth and say, damn, you are not winning the Kentucky Derby as a Shetland Pony no matter how much I like you.

Ming the Merciless 05-06-2013 03:40 PM
hate to be pessimistic but this trade was ****ing stupid

it sets up for 8-8, losing another second rounder

why the **** did we not just walk away if 2.1 in 2013 wasnt enough?

It seems like we gave up the booty way to easy to me...

ShowtimeSBMVP 05-06-2013 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bewbies (Post 9662611)
You don't trade 2 2nds for a QB that isn't in your long term plans. Alex Smith is their guy the same was Cassel was Belichick's penis entrance's.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2n66pf.jpg
And you know he's not how?

O.city 05-06-2013 03:42 PM
If he were in the long term plans, they'd have already extended him, IMO.

Ming the Merciless 05-06-2013 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan (Post 9662877)
And you know he's not how?
because he has been in the league 7 years already and has an established history

it isnt like he is an unknown commodity

most people, even the MOST optimistic, acknowledge that his ceiling is game manager style QB with flashes of good moments

ShowtimeSBMVP 05-06-2013 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9662891)
If he were in the long term plans, they'd have already extended him, IMO.
Nope, will do that after this year when he lights the league on fire.

O.city 05-06-2013 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan (Post 9662898)
Nope, will do that after this year when he lights the league on fire.
If they're waiting to see how he does, before they extend him, he isn't in their long term plans yet.

ShowtimeSBMVP 05-06-2013 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by O.city (Post 9662911)
If they're waiting to see how he does, before they extend him, he isn't in their long term plans yet.
No need to extend him got 2 years left.


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