What's crazy is that some of the most successful people I know have to smoke to work. I have a friend that writes 3D software that has to smoke to focus. I've seen and demoed his work (with like 1 ounce glasses with no aliasing) and its phenomenal.

It is what it is.

At no point did I say I was sausage grabbing, running away from or hiding behind someone/something.

For that comment I'm upping the asparagus to stuffed mushrooms then you and I will tussel.

Like a boss.

Steroids and performance enhancing drugs are illegal in every single sport, whether it's junior high, high school, amateur, Olympic or at the professional level.

That being the case, what's the reason for using them?

As Mickey Rourke said in The Wrestler... "gimme the russian, i dont want any of that chinese stuff."

The only thing i've ever used is creatine, which isnt really all that great imo, but i'm currently getting ready to start a major fitness push and am definitely interested in something really worthwhile, just for a short time to build up a solid base to work on and give me a quick boost to keep me motivated, age and lack of weight exercises has me way too emaciated.

So you are fine with people smoking weed illegally because they supposedly "work better" when high but you are against people using HGH because its illegal?

I mean isn't going to a Dr to get a scrip for weed to "focus" as much a sham as going to a an an aging clinic to get HGH so you can get leaner?

First off, it's not illegal in California and many other states. It's only a matter of time before the Federal government acknowledges that it's up to the states. Unlike other Federal Crimes, the government isn't actively shutting down legal dispensaries, just like it didn't invalidate same-sex marriage in states where it was approved.

Secondly, I'm not "against" HGH for people that require it. Whether it's dwarfism or any other biological and/or metabolic issue, I'm certainly not "against" it.

Where I find it ridiculous is for people to purchase it illegally and have no idea what they're putting into their system, all because it might make them "look" better.

I think that most people would prefer using marijuana over Adderall, which is speed, or Xanax or any number of psychotropic drugs. Or for cancer victims to increase their appetite due to chemotherapy and radiation. Or any number of medicinal uses.

But clearly, you're way too ****ing stupid to be able to figure that out on your own, so I'm glad to be of service.

Thanks for posting an article from January.

Meanwhile, I can still go down the street and pick up whatever I want.

It's only a matter of time before the Feds get on board because too many states want it legal. The biggest detractor is, of course, the pharmaceutical industry but that I say, **** 'em.

The US hasn't decriminalized weed in the past six months.

I can walk down the street in San Francisco and get a hooker. It doesn't make it legal. Marijuana use, for any reason, is a federal crime. The fact that it isn't a state law doesn't make it any less illegal. It just means that it's up to the Feds to enforce, not the local PD.

You can buy HGH at any gym in the country. You can by weed from half the busboys in the country. It's still illegal.

It's no more illegal to purchase HGH than it is to purchase weed.

The fact that you have Snoop brownies in your house makes you a criminal. It's stupid, but it's true. You are committing a federal crime. For you to cast stones at people who use HGH under the pretense of its illegality is hypocritical.

Well technically, for the record, use of Marijuana is not regulated therefor it's not a crime. You can **** a prostitute and the act of ****ing one is not illegal. It's the act of possession that's legally codified(and solicitation,etc for hookers).

To be more specific it is not actually clearly illegal for a person who is in a state where Marijuana is legal(in whatever manner). Why? Because even if the feds make it a federal crime that does not mean they have the jurisdiction to actually prosecute it.

It is a federal crime because the feds are using interstate commerce to regulate it. However if you, as an individual, were to grow your own plants and use it solely for personal consumption it would be difficult for the feds to prove there is an interstate commerce component of it and therefor the federal laws would not apply.

For large grow houses and commercial operations proving 'interstate' is much easier. But if you are a solo user and grow your own it will be fairly difficult for the feds to actually be able to charge you. This is because your activities solely reside within your own state and for your own use so there is no interstate jurisdiction.

Obama likes to say he won't go after the home grower for personal use because he's 'being nice' but the simple truth is he likely legally can't and has been told as much.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/fede...g-to-marijuana

But it's coming and everyone knows it. Just because the Feds are behind on the times (like Gay Marriage) doesn't mean that they're enforcing the law.

Tell Hugh Grant that you can't get arrested for a street walker.

The mere fact that the Feds don't get involved should tell you something. How many athletes have been tried for using performance enhancing drugs?

I didn't realize that I could buy HGH at a dispensary down the street.

HGH, steroids and other illegal performance enhancing drugs are not viewed by Federal, State and local governments equally.

If so, I could grab some HGH and some anabolic steroids on the shelf at my local Medicinal Marijuana dispensary or CVS.

I don't know what kind of point you're trying to prove.

I can go down to Hollywood & Highland get whatever I need. Legally. In California. No police officer is waiting to arrest me. No one will report a crime.

I can't do the same with HGH or steroids.

Not having the jurisdiction to enforce a law is not the same as it being legal. Traditionally, the interstate commerce clause has been absolutely zero obstacle for the feds. Essentially everything can be argued to be interstate commerce, especially if it's purchased with $$$$$.

I can run over to the bar up the street and buy weed. No police officer will be waiting to arrest me. It's still illegal.

I can download songs, movies, etc. I probably won't get nailed for it. It's still illegal.

This is a pretty simple concept. States only have the ability to make state laws. They can't override federal laws. If they could, Obamacare would never exist in half the country.

Whatever.

Let me know when states make HGH and steroids legal. Then we might have something to discuss.

You do realize that none of that actually means anything in this case right? Sure the feds can declare something illegal, but making something federally illegal and having the jurisdiction to prosecute it is ENTIRELY different.

For instance if you go to amsterdamn and smoke weed what you did was a federal crime. No ifs ands or buts about it, you broke the federal law and it applies to all citizens. The difference is, the Feds don't have the jurisdiction to prosecute you for the act of smoking weed outside of the US.

While federal law may be 'supreme' it is ONLY supreme within the context of the constitutional powers given to the federal government. The Federal government does not have the power to directly make laws that apply in your state. Instead they rely upon the power of the interstate commerce clause. They can establish many things influence interstate commerce and that gives them the jurisdiction to regulate many things(even if that jurisdiction is probably a bit too broad).

Even with the broadest definition it would still be very difficult for the feds to prove that an individual growing and consuming for personal use influences interstate commerce. If the feds cannot establish interstate commerce jurisdiction they cannot prosecute.

Note the example of prostitution...not a federal crime. Trafficking across state lines is....but not the act...that's up to the states themselves. For instance the feds actually can't set a national drinking age. Why? Because that would be regulating the behavior of internal state affairs which they didn't have the authority to do.

So what did they do instead to institute a national drinking age? They actually made a condition to receiving highway construction funds to raise your drinking age to 21. That's why you saw places like Louisiana raise their drinking age from 18 to 21 in the mid 90s.

Okay dane...if Kansas legalizes HGH tomorrow, would you still be against it?

Dane's entire argument is that HGH use is wrong because it's illegal. You seem to be using the "it's only illegal if you get punished" line of thought.

By that logic, HGH use should be just fine as long as you don't get caught.

No that is not my point really. My point it anyone can say something is illegal but if the law is invalid in your case then who cares what they say. They don't have the grounds to take action so they can scream about it all they want.

It would be the equivalent to NY declaring that it's a felony for anyone in KS to own a magazine that has the capacity to hold more than 7 rounds. Sure they can make the law if they want and yes it would then technically be 'illegal' for people in KS to own a magazine that can hold more than 7 rounds. But since they don't have the jurisdiction to enforce NY law in KS it would be invalid to apply it in KS.

That's very different from saying it's fine until you get caught, because if the law is invalid in your case it's very different because it doesn't matter if they catch you, they still can't prosecute you.

There are actually many legal steroids as potent as the illegal ones. There is an entire website for them. Prohormoneforum.com

That's nonsense.

Do you have any reading comprehension skills? You're almost as bad as GoChiefs at creating a false narrative.

I'm not "against it". Go back and read my earlier comments for proof.

Furthermore, HGH is legal for doctors to prescribe to patients that need it.

HGH isn't illegal ... it's controlled


You can get a prescription to take HGH

Sadly, if you are going to jump on some 'roids, the illegal ones are much safer on the body than the oral ones you can buy over the counter. Too bad the government continues to be reeruned about actual steroid use.

So I've been debating about if to weigh in on the general issue of T HGH etc.

Let me explain to you my case. I have established family history of lower than normal testosterone. My father actually never realized he had it until he got his level checked and it was zero. My levels have been monitored for a while and were always well below what they should have been for my age group and yet still not clinically 'low'. Understand the normal range for T is ~250-800nl. It's a huge range.

A while ago after talking with my doctor we decided to try augment my T levels to something normal for my age group. I had read up on some of the issues about adjusting T and I was somewhat apprehensive. Make no mistake the human body is a VERY complex system and when you start fooling with one aspect of it the consequences are uncertain.

I started with a low dose of traditional HRT to augment my bodies natural level and put me into a 'normal' T level range for my age. For a while it worked as designed. But like any complex system my body slowly adapted to the increased T levels and started to shut down my natural production(note this was over a period of months).

When my doctor measured my current T level it was again in the level I was at pretherapy and he wanted to increase my dose from an augmentation level to a full replacement. I said no. I didn't want to fully shut down my natural production. The reason I didn't want to shut down my natural production of T is because that's not the only thing that's likely to get shut down. There are many other things that could be stopped being produced and the consequences of that are uncertain.

For people who are already at 0T they have nothing to lose from full replacement because they aren't producing anything naturally. For everyone else that's hard to say and it could have a variety of consequences.

When we stopped my HRT my T level plummeted to zero and I felt marginal for probably ~ a week. But then my body restarted its natural production. To explain how complicated a natural system our body is, when I had my T levels tested 4 months later my T level was higher than we had ever measured it and I was taking nothing....

To say my doctor was surprised was an understatement, but after they discussed it with a few experts they have a hypothesis on what actually happened. Pediatric Endocrinologists actually do something similar for kids to shock their system into producing T again after certain operations. They'll use HRT on the patient and then stop it to jumpstart their bodies into restarting their natural levels.

So we elected to do nothing and keep monitoring the levels to see what would happen. Like any complex system my body adapted yet again and returned my T levels back to where they were in the beginning. Not wanting to go on to HRT we elected to try a different therapy which is what I am on today. Note I won't talk about what it is because it's not something you should be going to the internet to find out about. This is something you should be talking to your doctor about.

Remember above all you are messing with a very complicated natural system and no matter what you do it's going to try to adapt to the change you are causing. Those adaptations are all uncertain as to their long term consequences. As much as people want to say they can do their 'internet research' to find out how to do this safely, that's mostly garbage. You could read everything on the internet and know only a fraction of what you need to know.

Why? Because most of what's being done is utterly uncharted territory. You can say steroids are safe and cycles help prevent some of the bad effects, but the documented heart problems of long term users tends to outweigh that. We simply do not have long term controlled studies to say what happens when you fool with your body like this. Plus there is a difference between placing levels in what should be a human norm and pushing levels far beyond what the body is designed for to get a performance advantage.

You have a turbo in your car and crank up up the boost a bit and you're probably ok....you double the boost and things are likely to break. We can replace an engine...it's much harder to replace your heart.

So this goes back to my original question I asked a long time ago...what are you trying to use them for? Are you trying to use steroids because you're feeling old and think they might help you recapture some of your youth? If that's the case then get your T levels checked at your doctor. It is a really undiagnosed condition because our levels drop so slowly it's hard for us to tell how we felt when we were 'normal' versus now. I personally have a good frame of reference because when I stopped HRT I got to experience the difference between 'normal' and zero over the span of days. But if it happened slowly over time I might have attributed it to aging.

If you're looking at steroids because you feel fat and think it will help lean you up. My honest response to that is that the problem isn't the steroids it's you. Get off your butt and hit the gym and eat right. Make the commitment in time and discipline and it will pay off. Just pumping yourself full of roids isn't going to make you skinny it takes time and commitment and you still need to put in the time to see the results. Hell dropping weight naturally raises your own free testosterone because body fat increases the rate at which testosterone is converted into estrogen. Why do you think fat guys have man boobs?(ok that might be a postulation since I personally haven't seen the evidence but it fits the facts!)

As to those talking about why sporting competitions ban PEDs. They don't do this because it give people a performance edge. If they did they would ban lightweight shoes, fast swimsuits etc. They ban PEDs because if they don't people will compromise their health and probably kill themselves in effort to get an edge in competition. They don't do it because PEDs are cheating, they do it because they will seriously affect your long term health.

Consider that when you think of using steroids because you want to look better. Put in the time, hit the gym and eat right. Like everything in life there are no short cuts.

Very true but more and more guys are just going with test only cycles to be safe.

Test only in oral form or injectable?

Injectable of course. Oral gear sucks(except dbol or abombs) and they are hell on the liver.

Injectable . A lot of blast and crusing.

The old saying is "test is best." Every cycle should use a test base.

Half of Hollywood is on roids and HGH...and lord knows what else...I'm sure Dane has some great stories.

So is cocaine.

WTF?

Where can you get a script for coke?

I would think a safer cycle would just be low dosed Test instead of up/down dosing. I read some guys do blast/cruise without any PCT. Not even sure how that works. Low dosing it for long trials wouldn't get the gains as quick as blast/cruise but I assume would be safer? I would very much like just a small help in the gym of a low dosed cycle of Test for an extended time.

Damn, this whole time I thought it was "incest is best".

Well if your sucking on your brothers testes you get to kill two birds with one stone!:hmmm:

You can't get a script for it, but it's regularly used for eye surgeries. Hell, doctors will write orders for booze for patients with severe DTs.

Laz doesn't seem to understand that possession of a controlled substance is illegal w/o proper documentation.

Merck makes medical grade cocaine. Dane can probably tell some Hollywood stories about medical grade coke

Only if sofia vergara is your mom

And it is because of posts like this that I wouldn't know where to begin. I am out of my element on this topic!

ROFL

I did not know that. Hmmm

:hmmm:
I'm too stupid? You are flip flopping and contradicting yourself all over this thread. Or dodging the point.

Yeah, before you dabble you need to know your half lives and clearance times

Never used either.

I was always adamantly against... felt like cheating somehow. Had a friend who used steroids and he saw some notable changes in size and strength. It piqued my interest and I considered it, but my friend didn't want to do it again and I didn't want to do it alone. Not long after, he started to lose some of the gains he made on steroids so he went and did it again (again without me). At that point I decided I was over it and wasn't going to try it.

You are a moron

Dude you are so full of shit its hilarious.

I'm a moron? Great response flip flopping fool.

Yup reading comprehension issues all around.

Yea for sure. I have always wondered what a decent cycle would even cost?

It's weird, I've never opposed steroids or hgh (trt for mma different story), but never felt the need to use them. I've never once considered myself a freak when it comes to pure strength. However, I do think that there are other traits such as explosiveness, agility, quickness, flexibility, etc that can help compensate, for lack of a better term.


If you're taking a supplement like hgh or anabolic steroids to simply get in shape, then youre doing it incorrectly.

While I don't agree with his post, that was excellent use of the multi-quote function by Marcellus. Congrats, man!

What the **** are you talking about? Are you telling me that you can go to a store and purchase HGH or anabolic steroids?

JFC, you are the dumbest mother****er to post on this site. KC Tattoo is a Mensa member compared to your ****ing dumbassery.

What point where you trying to prove with that pointless nonsense?

See this is why roid rage is bad!!!:D:grouphug:

For a beginner start simple and low - say 400 mg of test enanthate per week for 12 weeks plus arimidex (anti aromatose to prevent estrogenic sides) and clomid (for post cycle recovery). I haven't dealt with this stuff since 2003, so I have no clue what prices are now, but then that would have run about $300.

I used to have roid rage bad once. ****ing hemorrhoids hurt every time I wiped.

Speaking of massive roid rage....what would the hulk be like with hemorrhoids???? Avengers 2 plotline perhaps???????

Granted there could be a hole bunch of anti-std spots out of this theme too....could you imagine the hulk episode....'It burns when I pee!'

Hulk pee burn. Hulk ass fire.

****ing loki.

I've been on non-stop for 5 years. No joke.

Who wants to know what?

Oh and do not ask me to hook you up. It's kinda like fight club. The first rule of this shit is don't ask for a source.

Other than that, Dane has no clue. ZERO clue. Neither do most of you. Neither do most of you in regards to what you think your buddy took, or what it did, or whatever.

I know that it's illegal to take or possess without a doctor's prescription. I know that performance enhancing drugs like steroids and HGH are illegal for junior high, senior high, college, amateur, Olympic and professional athletes.

What else do I not have a clue about?

You dont have a clue about what you say for one thing.

It's more for guys that are done having kids. You MIGHT be able to

It's more for guys that are done having kids. You might be able to fire up the HPTA again, but it's safer to come off and go with a SERM until then.

JESUS ****ING CHRIST, if you have something to SAY, cockbag, SAY IT.

I refuted Hotshot's premise. I have many posts stating that HGH is fine IF used under a doctor's care and supervision for medical necessity.

READ MY POSTS, you mealy mouthed ****.

Yes, you can purchase Anabolic Steroids at some stores legally. Epistane, Ultradrol, and RPN Havoc to name a few of the popular ones. Superdrol was the king of legal steroids. Freakish gains in about 3 weeks, but it would shut you down like a bitch. It just became illegal in 2012.

I've been on about 4 now. Blast and cruise or just TRT?

Odd you cant get what I am saying and you call me stupid. Its printed right in front of your face.

Mealy mouthed ****? I'm the one who cant keep my story straight?

Did you get into your wife's brownies and forget what you typed?

Do you use HCG or do you have raisins?

After checking on this, I was wrong. Nevermind.

I don't use it and my boys are just fine. I just use PES Erase as an AI to keep estogen in check. Armidex is expensive and Erase is a pretty good AI for being OTC.

RIght. Cyp or E is used for TRT and some guys will use a Prop/Cyp blend. I use 200mg/week or cyp and occasionally bump is up to 400 when bulking. My BP tends to get high so I just have to keep an eye on that.

Do they still sell the "Liquid Research" stuff? We used to use that for our A-dex / Clomid / Nolva / T3 / Clen. It came in dropper bottles.

For some reason I thought blast and cruise was a really short cycle with a fast ester to get blood levels up fast and get some building in before your HTPA had time to shut down.

Yep. For your "lab rats" of course :)

That they are dangerous. Not really. I mean, aspirin are dangerous and kill more people each year than steroids. Seriously, to say you overstate the dangers involved with them is putting it mildly.

No, that's using a "kickstart".

B & C is 12 weeks on 100-200 and then 12 weeks at BBing type doses of usually > 400mg then back to TRT doses. Rinse and repeat.

BigCat - Sort of a blast and cruise. I don't go under 500mg a week of test anymore for any reason. I mean, the whole point of getting on is that you weren't happy with what you were before. Just stay on. I don't get guys that go off. I've gone up to 1500mg a week for a while before. No sides. But I didn't find that I got much more out of 1500 than I did a gram. I hate tren. Everyone raves about it but I ran it for 7 days and had to shut it down. Made me feel like I had asthma, and I couldn't take that.

"Do you use HCG or do you have raisins?" -

Test never really shrunk my balls. I mean they did a little, but who cares about the size of your balls? I never understood this. You don't **** chics with your balls do you? And test and GH made my dick grow. This also is not uncommon, as Jose Consenco also wrote about it, and his wife verified. Since then I've talked to a lot of dudes who expressed the side "side effect".

Yes, test and GH can make your dick bigger.

As far as going off, no. I don't want any more kids. So why would I go off? Just stay on. In fact, test also acts as birth control and is more effective than the shit women take for not getting someone knocked up.

Most of what you hear, or read about is generally false. The media are the biggest bunch of idiots when it comes to this stuff that there is. Never believe a god damn word of what they write.

Second, steroids will not make you into a world champion. I know lots of guys on lots of shit that will never be elite level anything. It doesn't work like that. You can't just run a few cycles and get huge. I don't care what anyone says. I generally walk around at 265 pounds, very near 10% bodyfat. But that's 25 years of work. I've only been on for 5.

Your biggest "anabolic" is food. You can take all the shit you want, but if you don't know how to eat to enhance what it's trying to do with your body, what you get out of it will be minimal.

They are dangerous if not used properly. They can most certainly cause organ damage and organ failure.

This is a serious question, not a joke: Why do you believe that anabolic steroids aren't controlled and sold over-the-counter?

Aspirin is dangerous if used improperly. So is a dildo. They aren't illegal.

Steroids are illegal because the idiots in congress got together after Ben Johnson handed Carl Lewis his ass, and said that he only won because of winny. It's hilarious. The ****ing Medical association and the DEA both stood up and said "do not make steroids illegal!" But they didn't listen.

So there's your answer.