Oh for the love of holy ****...:spock:


There were just as many PS fans in that stadium as USC.

A 20 minute drive from home for one of the teams.

Trust me, I saw PLENTY of Penn State fans in Hollywood and Downtown for NYE.

The stadium looked to me on TV as if it were 2/3 USC and 1/3 Penn State, which was surprising.

Yeah.

At 4am with no traffic.

:D

Understood, but an hour on a bus isn't quite the same as a 4 or 6 hour flight.

I was there and it was about 60 % SC 40 % PSU fans.

That team can, could, and did play anywhere. If this is such a big deal, then piss to the BCS about it.

What the hell, let's just move every College Bowl game to America's Ass-Pit: Texas.:spock:

That way, it's warm and it's right in the middle of the Country, and no one has to assume more major mileage than the other guy.

Of course it IS Texas, and you'll want to shoot yourself in the face after being there for more than a day or two.:doh!:

It's not a big deal. It is an advantage for USC though.

Well, ok fine. Not so much a USC homer as a PAC10 homer.

Look, I understand that part. I want the Big 12 to do well even though I can't stand some teams like MU and OU. But let's at least to try use some logic here. You can't say 100% for certain that USC would beat OU or UT. That is your opinion. But I will bet your opinion was that there was no way USC would lose to Oregon State.

Why not? USC has lost three of their last four trips to Corvallis. It's like Trojan kryptonite there. :D

I am NOT a Pac-10 homer. For Chrissakes, I went to both K-State & KU!

But unlike so many people in this forum, I can objectively look at college football and be honest about who the best team in the land may be, regardless of "SOS" or conference bias.

I have the ESPN college package. I watch a ton of college football and for my money, USC is the best team in the country this year.

It'll be awesome if we could get him in the second round.

The possibilities are good. IF he declares.

Why wouldn't he be drafted in the 1st round if he declares?

He ran a very pro-style offense at USC.

He was quite successful the 2 years that he was the QB in that offense.

He is probably more pro-ready then Stafford and Bradford is.

I could see where he may last, at the latest, later first round. It may be that we could trade up from the 2nd round position to get him with a late 1st round choice, but I don't see him there in the beginning of the 2nd round.

Sanchez is a top 10 pick, more than likely top 5. No way in hell does he slide to the 2nd round unless he gets caught with wacky weed or hookers.

If he doesn't think he'll at least be a Top 10 pick, he's not coming out.

If he declares, it's because the advisory board and others have told him he'll be the 1st or 2nd QB taken.

At this point, and between the three, I'd damn near wage money on Bradford being the guy heading back to school.

FYI - for those of you who can stream radio, Sanchez is going to do an interview on the Los Angeles ESPN affiliate in a few minutes.

Mason and Ireland?

Got it. Thank you.

Damn! Nothing new right now...

He is leaving, you can almost tell how he is answering the questions.

Sway him! Sway him!

Just started listening.

What did I miss?

God I hope so.

You say you can objectively look at it and yet you made some remark about some teams that OU played. Well, yeah they played a couple of not so great teams. But they also played some good teams. Just because you went to school somewhere many moons ago does not necessarily make you objective.

I thought spatula provided a very good argument about SOS and backed it up with factual data. Then you chose to belittle him and call him stupid. Well, you didn't exactly say that but it is not hard to read between the lines.

I agree that USC is a top 5 team this year. And right now, they are playing as well as anybody. That does not mean that they would beat OU or UT. OU's offense is beyond incredible this year. That being said, I thought UT should have been in title game over OU. I also think that OU could beat UF if (and I know this is a big if) they don't choke like they have the past few years. And my opinion is based on watching a lot of college ball, as well.

Nothing really, has a big support staff behind him. Family supportive either way.

The you going to 3 was nice to hear. :)

I don't think he would be a bad pick at #3. Either him or Stafford would be my choices, assuming we pick a QB at that spot. I don't think Bradford will ever be a great NFL QB.

Goddamnit Gonzales, get your ass on a plane and go woo! Woo I say! lol.

No shit.

Agreed.

1 year starter going pro? That's a pretty big gamble in the top 3.

It's not like he's a spread QB from UTEP.

Whatever.

SOS shouldn't be determined until the season's completed. Considering the fact that all five Pac-10 teams won their bowl games (and one beat OSU), I'd say that strength of schedule is out the ****ing window.

IMO, OU's offense would be completely shut down by the best defense in the nation. USC will have as many as 10 guys drafted in April.

Can you say the same for OU's offense?

I didn't take that away from the interview. I obviously have a bias, but I think he's still mulling it over, but leaning towards staying.

Agree. Sanchez has all the tools, but the lack of experience concerns me, along with the fact he hasn't really faced any adversity in his playing career.

We should just give up and see who we can abduct from Coastal Carolina, and pay them in cans of tuna.

I don't usually agree with you, but this is spot on IMO.

How do you see the game going tonight?

How do you think?

ROFL

LMAO

Hey, I thought I'd ask.

:D

About the same as what happened in Los Angeles in September.

Assuming you're correct (and I agree with you), why in the hell did the BCS make this match up?

USC-Texas would have been a much better game.

Define "adversity" in this case please.

Who's playing tonight?

Ohio State/Texas.

Playing for a team like USC that is loaded with talent and always the favorite, you rarely are put in opportunities where you need to perservere against difficult odds. USC is always the favorite, always has more talent, and the goal is basically to not choke.

That's different than what someone like Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Jay Cutler, etc. had to deal with in college, and I wonder if that lack of adversity has limited his growth.

Excellent. Thank you.

Limited his growth? Starting for a year and half for one of the best overall football teams in the country could somehow limit his growth?

This makes no sense. Are you implying that good QB's who play for shitty teams are ready-made for the NFL? If so, why did it take Eli Manning nearly four full seasons before the game began to click for him?

I'm sorry but this is a completely illogical viewpoint.

I'll agree that they don't have to play Oregon every week, and in the case of a lesser athlete the concern is a valid one.
That said, I scarcely doubt you put Sanchez behind the Chiefs O-Line as it stands right now, and everything he has learned just crumbles to dust as the wheels fall off the wagon.

I'm sure our rookies who came from winning programs didn't much care for going 2-14, but that's not going to make them call it quits and give up. If Sanchez becomes the Chiefs QBOTF, he'll roll with the punches and more than likely adapt faster than any other guy we could pick this year.

ADDENDUM:

How the **** could I forget this?!

Who's the coach of that team Mark plays for? Has he coached at the pro level before?

Exactly.

No, what I said is that his lack of adversity could limit his growth. Playing on a team that is loaded with talent is great in college, but I'm not at all convinced it's a great environment for a college QB. He hasn't had any adversity in his playing career, and no matter who he goes to next year, he's going to have a ton of adversity. Is he prepared for that?

No it's not. Physical talent being equal, a QB that has not faced adversity and has great players around him that help him win will be less prepared for the NFL than a QB that had the burden of being "the man" on his team and his team's only hope to win.

The latter player was not insulated in a comfortable environment, and should be more capable of handling the obvious adversity new QBs in the NFL face.

Yeah, those guys Elway, Marino, Montana, Young, Peyton Manning, Troy Aikman, Tom Brady - whew, those guys had it TOUGH in college.

JFC.

:rolleyes:

Do you realize that if you put Marino's college stats on a QB today nobody on this board would want to draft him?

Yeah, because the game hasn't changed a bit in 25 years.

:rolleyes:

You're exaggerating like usual. I never said he "crumbles to the wagon" - I said there's a chance he would be less prepared than a similarly talented QB that did not play with such talented players.

Just like in real life, facing adversity and fighting through tough situations makes players stronger. If a player hasn't had the opportunity to face many tough situations or have the entire team's expectations on his shoulders, then the NFL could be a shock to him.

There is a reason why guys like Leinart, Vince Young, Rex Grossman, and Jamarcus Russell - guys that have come from football factories - have looked like busts early in their career. I don't think it's all just a lack of tools on their part.

Well, it's safe to say that practically no one "on this board" wanted Ryan last year either. Or Flacco.

So with all due respect save for a few people, I generally disregard 99% of the "opinions" around here regarding the draft.

They'd still be trying to break Marino's records if he played CFB the way it is now.

Agreed.

His accuracy and TD/INT ratio. They probably would have him in a spread today and everybody would be talking about how spread QB's don't make it in the NFL.

Are you ****ing kidding me?

Elway didn't even make a bowl game while at Stanford. THAT IS ADVERSITY. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Do more research on the programs of the rest of the QBs you named, and then compare them to what USC is now.

Give me a f'n break.

Are you saying that USC's defense will have as many as 10 guys drafted? Well, that is interesting. It's rather convenient that you can say that SOS should not be determined until the season's complete yet you will gladly use the 10 USC guys number for the NFL draft which has not happened yet. :shake:

We all know that OU has their share of top talent. They just have a coach like Marty Schottenheimer when it comes to bowl games.

Or perhaps Roy Williams would be a better comparison. A guy who early in his coaching career took KU to National Championship games and Final Fours and then started losing in the second round or sweet 16 for a few years. Perhaps Stoops will find the right formula once again to be able to win it all. Who knows?

Whatever, we just disagree on this and there is no point in continuing to argue. I will say this, though. If there were a playoff, all of this BS could be decided on the field. I really don't see any reason why they could not do a playof system. Just for the top 8-16 teams. They could still use the lesser bowls for teams that aren't BCS eligible. I would love to see that.

Wrong. Luckily we have a neat little archive feature that allows us to see what people said last year before the draft.

I was a huge Ryan fan, I know Mecca was too, and I'm sure there were a few others. But most people focused too much on his INTs and blew him off.

There's no "looked like" about it. BUST.

I'm sorry, there's no validity to your accusation.

Leinart looked great his first season playing in the modified WCO. Green was fired and Whisenhunt went to a vertical game. That's NOT his strength.

Young was a bust waiting to happen. He's a dimwitted dumb**** with emotional issues and a weird delivery. Why he went #3 overall is beyond me and if you do a search, you'll find that I said he'd be an NFL bust back in 2005.

Jamarcus Russell? See above. Rex Grossman? ROFL Typical Steve Spurrier QB. How many of those guys have had successful NFL careers?

Why don't you go ahead throw Tim Couch, Cade McNown, Akili Smith and Ryan Leaf into your pile?

The bottom line is if a player has the talent to succeed in the NFL, he'll succeed, whether he comes from a winning program or not.

Oh, and how's that working for Jay Cutler? No winning seasons for four years at Vanderbilt. Using your flawed logic, he should be somewhere around 40-0 as a starting QB.

I was told not to worry about it because size doesn't matter.

What's your ****ing point, Brad? IF, IF, IF, IF, IF? JFC, that's all you say. IF this, well, than that would happen.

As a matter of record, Brent Musberger during the broadcast said that as many as 10 USC defensive players could be drafted in the 2009 draft. Their defensive is vicious. This isn't just "speculation".

Let's revisit this after the draft in April, okay?

Ewww, Elway didn't make a bowl game.

Uh, he went to Stanford. He was regarded as the number one athlete in football and baseball.

There's nothing that would have stopped him from being successful in either sport.

Get it?

Don't you understand that losing breeds winners, Dane? :rolleyes:

I didn't say there was "validity"; I said it was a concern of mine, and I know I'm not alone. For you to assume that every QB is equally prepared for the adversity they will face early in their pro career is silly and a bit ignorant.

Leinart certainly did not look "great"; if he would have been great, teams would be knocking down Arizona's door to trade for him, but there hasn't been a peep and no one even talks about him now.

The only "flawed logic" here is you thinking a USC QB has to work as hard and has as much pressure to perform as a QB from any random BCS program. Matt Ryan faced tons of adversity in his college career at BC, and didn't miss a beat in his transition to the NFL; the same can be said for Jay Cutler, Big Ben, McNabb, etc.

Will Sanchez overcome this? I have no idea - no one does until we see how he performs. But don't sit here and act like the QBs with great physical tools that played in pro schemes are automatic locks to have success in the NFL. There are too many variables involved.

I guess I'm having trouble with this concept.

What adversity did McNabb or Rothlisberger face? And please tell us, what exactly has Jay Cutler won?

McNabb was a stud as Syracuse and Rothlisberger led his team to a bowl victory his senior season.

Please explain how not facing "adversity" affected the pro careers of the QB's I mentioned above: Brady, Manning, Marino, Elway, Montana, Young and Aikman.

I'll be waiting with baited breath.

WTF? Do you still not understand? Has the California air paralyzed your brain?

Elways faced ADVERSITY in his college career because his team SUCKED. He was always, ALWAYS, expected to carry the team; he had to work harder to prepare for teams with more talent; and he had to do it on his own, without great receivers, without a great o-line, without a great defense to keep him in the game.

The fact that he went to Stanford has NOTHING to do with it. The fact that he was a stud athlete has NOTHING to do with it.

Elway had to deal with challenges and adversity that Sanchez has not had to deal with.

My God, and you seriously sit here and act like you don't have a USC bias.

Seriously?!

:banghead::banghead::banghead:


McNabb was not surrounded with talent like Sanchez and Leinart had at USC. Same with Big Ben and Cutler.

The fact that you're using the argument that Cutler hasn't "won anything" shows me that you still have no clue what I'm talking about, because him not winning Super Bowl by his third year is completely irrelevant to how prepared he was personally for the NFL based on his college experience.

You and DCS can have bukkake contests on Sanchez pictures all day long for all I care.

Again, you haven't proved your point that "adversity" creates a better NFL QB.

FAIL.

Not that I couldn't, but you're firing on all four here. So I'm just going to let you run the show on this. That said, looking at some of his posts?

Wow. Just wow.( and not in the "good wow" sense. )

Yes, I "fail" because I can't prove a concern about an individual player. Good one doofus.

Thankfully you're in entertainment and not a brain surgeon.

If anyone failed it is you.

You made a ridiculous claim about Elway, Marino, Aikman, etc., and then you ask people who don't agree with you to support your ridiculous claim.

"Please explain how not facing "adversity" affected the pro careers of the QB's I mentioned above: Brady, Manning, Marino, Elway, Montana, Young and Aikman."

Eazy and myself are pointing out that some of those QB's DID face more adversity than Sanchez.