Good point....can I retract now?

Just sayin, there haven't been many defensive guys come down the pipe with the size, strength and speed of Curry. I just think he could fly off of the edge well. But then again, getting off the snap would be the deal eh?

Actually, there is usually a LB that is a similar prospect to Curry every year...he's not a once in a lifetime player he's the LB that usually goes between 8-12 every year he's being pumped up because he's safe in a weak year.

It appears that is what I said, but that was only to make the point.

There are other game changers, but generally speaking it's not that often that you get a game changer at the ILB position, which is the position that Curry's game is best suited for.

And I'm just flipping you shit.

I would use the pick because he's the best player at a position of great need for the team. Is that a good reason? He don't need to be more than he is. If he's a good pass rusher that's icing.

I'm not so hung up at what pick in the draft it is. I'm hung up on getting the best players. Not to reach for a DE to convert "in hope" of making him something else.

Willie McGinest was on NFL Networj the other day saying the toughest conversion for a 3-4 LB is pass coverage, not pass rushing.

Alright KCBOSS1, it's time for a little thing I call "Tales Of The Tape". Enough words, let's have some action:

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I think the bigger deal is that there is a lot of technique to getting through the trenches and pass rushing moves. DE is one of the more difficult positions to learn in the NFL level.

The deal is that as a 3-4 OLB, you have to be a solid DE but only have to be marginally good at a lot of the typical OLB stuff (having good range and being good in coverage). That's why you want a DE that plays OLB moreso than you want an OLB that plays DE.

That's because Willie McGinest was a defensive end in college....

I'd have to imagine that's b/c the outside backers come into the league with pass rush ability. As Mecca stated earlier, they're usually DE's.

It's because as college DE's, you're not asked to do as much pass coverage. If you think it's difficult to cover as a DE, you can imagine the challenge of asking an OLB like Curry to pass rush with his hand on the ground.

Think of it this way. When you're a RB, you want your RB to be a good receiver. But what's more important? A lousy RB who is a great receiver, or a terrific RB who's a poor receiver? Because when you're talking about a 3-4 OLB, you want a good pass rusher who is a lousy pass coverage guy a lot moreso than you want a good pass coverage guy who is a poor pass rusher.

Give me an example of a conventional 4-3 LBer that is built like a 3-4 OLB/DE. Traditional 4-3 OLBs are 220 lbs.

I asked you to give me an example of a QB coming out of college with 1 year experience a year early that succeeded in the NFL. It wasn't a reasonable arguement in that context for you. Why do you try to use it here?

You think NFL LB's are 220lbs what the **** are you smoking?

I'm not sure that I fully understand. The point is completely relevant. Vrabel, Suggs, Ware, Merriman, Woodley, Wimbley... these are all DEs who became 3-4 OLBs.

I understand the arguement and the whole concept behind it. Where I get hung up is that you know more about what Curry can and cant do than anyone else. It's a canned arguement. It's the only one left as a reason not to take the best player on the board.

You dont know he "CANT" any more than I know he "CAN". Like I've said in previous posts, he's shown he can get in the backfield. He just wasn't asked to rush the passer. To assume he cant get into the backfield to rush the passer is somewhat unrealistic IMO.

I'm not buying all the arguements. I take the best player on the board.

'

LMAO

And put a leprechaun with a pot of gold on that list too, goddamnit!

Yeah, some are. 220-240

The point being 4-3 LBs are not the size of a DE. However, Curry is the size of a 3-4 DE/LB. I think you know the point I was trying to make.

I sure as hell aint smoking Sanchez cock. So you can calm down, hot rod.

FINALLY! We agree!

http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/v...kSanchez1a.pnghttp://www.lionsgab.com/wp-content/u...3/stafford.jpg

I hope I never hear about Aaron Curry again, either that or I'm going to laugh my ass off when he's playing ILB and getting no sacks and people are going "why isn't he outside rushing the passer!"

Did we trade down?

But it's a completely relevant argument. If no NFL teams are drafting college OLBs to play DEs, then that means that professional NFL teams don't believe guys like Curry are fit to play 3-4 OLB. And the fact that guys like Merriman and Ware and Woodley are playing like all-world pro bowlers suggests that NFL teams are right.

So let's see....
-History says that OLBs don't make good 3-4 OLBs
-History says that Curry is smaller than almost every 3-4 OLB in the game
-From a skill set standpoint, 3-4 OLBs require you to be an outstanding pass rusher who happens to know how to play some OLB. A 4-3 OLB requires you to be an outstanding OLB who sometimes rushes the passer. Like I said, drafting Curry to be a 3-4 OLB is like drafting a stud running back to primarily be a wide receiver just because he caught a few passes when he was in college.

We don't now if Curry can/cannot play 3-4 OLB. But there's a lot of historical evidence to say that it's not usual for a guy like Curry to play the position.

I've heared all the financial reason why the Chiefs shouldn't draft Curry at #3 and same goes for drafting another OT. Would those things be any worse then giving $20mil plus guaranteed money to a QB who only has 16 starts?


PhilFree:arrow:

But we do know he can get in the backfield. We know he can cover. We know he has more speed than a conventional DE convert.

What does history say about those guys?

Size is generally the reason that guys dont convert from OLB to 3-4 OLB. Size is not he issue with Curry. He posses the size and strength to make the transition.

What if we dont run an exclusive 3-4 scheme?

I'm out for the night folks. I'll check in tomorrow. But it's shaping up to be the same circle jerk as usual. I think we all want the same thing in the end. A better team than last season. We just have different ways to go about it.

I hope we all get our wish in the end.

Good night.

SANCHEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cassel will suck just watch and see. And when he does I would love for all the peeps on here that are anointing him the man to admit they have poor judgment. If I'm wrong I have no problem admitting that and will be happy. ;) I am afraid he will suck and again i'll be watching a comedy show instead of a legit NFL team. You don't know how much I hope I'm wrong.

Oh I have a list. Draft bust championed by idiots is the sweetest nectar of revenge in all of in-house fandom.


What Max said.

Jeez, have another drink Mike then you might make sense.

He won't be a pass rusher, but I think he's really unlikely to be a bust.

That really isn't the reason to use a top 3 pick on someone that's like going "Lets take a OT if he sucks atleast he can play guard"

I'm surprised that the majority of the Curry folks haven't just stuck with the, "It's a weak class and I think he's going to be a tremendous ILB" argument.

At least this has validity, draft history be damned.

How DARE YOU mock the awesomeness of the Lord Our God Jesus Curry!

He won't play inside on a 4-3.

Blasphemer! Sanchez is the true Saviour.

Look, I don't even care that much about Curry. I do think he's the best player in the draft, but really I hope we trade down.

And again, there's a distinct difference between rushing the passer every once in a while to having it being one of your main responsibilities. Curry rushed the passer purely as an element of surprise. In a 3-4, he'd essentially be your main source of pressure--the defensive line (2 DEs and NT) are responsible for engaging blockers, not rushing the passer. Again, you're saying that Curry will be a very good pass rusher because he did so on occasion in college is like saying that Noshawn Moreno will be an outstanding #1 WR because he caught passes well on occasion. Curry can rush the passer, but it is not considered one of his strengths. And he doesn't have NEARLY the experience as, say, Aaron Maybin or Everett Brown. And that's important because like I said, rushing the passer and shedding blocks in the trenches is far more important than playing more traditional OLB roles like pass coverage.

As for whether we run a 3-4 exclusively, unless you think the Chiefs will build a defense with personnel from 2 defenses, then you can believe that the Chiefs will run a hybrid D forever. They are only running a hybrid because they can't turn a 4-3 into a 3-4 overnight. It's hard enough to build one defense, let alone 2.

Zach Thomas and Beisel are inside with DJ and Vrabel on the outside if we run a 3-4 this year. If we can trade down and get Raji or Brown I'll be happy, especially if we pick up a 2nd rounder and address right tackle.

And I bet your pappy always told you wished never came true, didn't he? :D

Wow... 19 pages. that was quick... lol

I'm sure this was discussed. Here's why I like Cassel:

Belichick was coming off a tumultuous season from dealing with questions on spygate, when Brady goes down with a season injury. There's no doubt the biggest question facing Belichick from the media -- "Can you win without Brady?" (You were all reading the same headlines... lol ).

Cassel had to be under tremendous pressure dealing with media questions that come with questions, whether he's a career backup or future franchise player. Who would expect the Patriots to go as far as they did. According to the media, 2008 proved to be Belichick's best coaching job of his career. I have to agree.


There is no question a QB will be better when he plays for a talented offense. Then again, QBs generally have less than spectacular years. Looking over the team's game stats, Cassel was stacked 47 times, while Thigpen was sacked 26. Cassel put up some good numbers. Considering, he was successful in 1st and 3rd down situations -- solid in the redzone -- He had a low turnover rate. In addition, he had game winning TDs.

I can see why NE fans were unhappy losing him -- Cassel moved the offense.

Hope you found your guy.


Passes Completed, Rank

2008 NFL 327 (9-- 85)
Pass Attempts

2008 NFL 516 (9)
Passing Yds

2008 NFL 3693 (8)
Passing TD

2008 NFL 21 (10)

Passer Rating

2008 NFL 89.4 (10)
Sacked

2008 NFL 47 (1-- 60)
Sacked Yds Lost

2008 NFL 219 (7)
Passing Yds/Game

2008 NFL 230.8 (10)

Pass Intercept. %

2008 NFL 2.1% (7)

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...Ma00_games.htm

Shit. I'd be ecstatic if that was the case. Like this team couldn't use a decent ILB. And that gives us an excuse to go after Selvie next year.

And if this franchise could get another Willie Lanier, I'm not going to complain at all. Zero. Nada. Nilch. Nyet. Nein. (And if you want to talk about comparing players, Curry and Lanier have got a lot in common in their game and on the field make up.)

Dylan...can you describe Cassel's mobility? I know he has surprising mobility for a 230-pound, 6-foot-4 QB.

What are the correct times of the morning and afternoon to pray to Matt Cassel, and is a gesture of supplication required?

Quit bro. We know you and Mecca suck Sanchez all day and everyday.....we get it.

If and when I meet Matt Cassel, do I address him as "Your Holiness" or "Most High"?

You do not talk to Matt Cassel. He communicates exclusively via pure thought. This is why he has such good chemistry with his receivers.

Yes. It all makes perfect sense now. Am I allowed to make eye contact?

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(the end)

LMAO

This is what Cassel does to blitzing linebackers.

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Hey, wow, I've never seen this thread before.

Awesome!

Most bull$#it to face to find a punchline since Dennis Miller did MNF.

On top of that $#it salad it's even LESS entertaining! BRAVO!

*FLOWERS AND ARSE TULIPS GA-LORE!1!*

If it made DCS post a smiley, my work here is done.

I haven't been around much lately. I missed the big event.

Should I send flowers or a card?...

And again........ show me why you think Curry cant get into the backfield.

You keep pounding your fist against the post on the same arguement while ignoring the fact that Curry was able to make plays in the backfield in the capacity he was asked. And assume that he wont be able to get in the backfield if asked to do it in another capacity. Why?

The fact is, when asked to do it......he did it.

Now, let's say he cant do it for the sake of your arguement. Then I would still take him as an inside LB. Why? because he's the best player on the board and we need one.

Mostly due to the fact he's overvalued.

He'd be Derrick Johnson in any other draft, likely a top 20 prospect.

I think he could be a dominant pass rusher. THat's not the favored view, but I think he could be.

Still, he's not a top 10 pick. End of story. I wouldn't pay him top 10 money.

And if I wouldn't you can bet your ass Pioli won't...

I'll be so glad when the ****ing draft is finally over.

I'm sweating it. I'm moving the week before.

My worst nightmare is some miracle trade/trade down I don't get to see because I don't have all my $#it in order yet...

That's the thing, even if he could be a dominant pass rusher, he just isn't, not right now. And you don't spend a top-5 pick on a player because you hope and pray he might be able to do something he's never done before. Project picks come in the 2nd half of the round, or later.

If you want to spend the #3 pick of the draft on an ILB, fine. That's one thing. But if you're trying to use the "I think he can rush the passer, even though he's never done it, and, hey, even if he busts we can still play him inside" argument, that just doesn't work. Not that high.

Want to promote Curry, great. Just stick to his coverage skills and his physical play, without going into the purely subjective fantasy realm of whether or not he can russ the pasher. If he's not worth #3 based on what you already know he can do, then he's not worth it at all.

(This isn't directly aimed at you caudle, I just quoted you and then went on a tangent...)Now that would suck.

I'll be working that day I'm sure.

The move is getting at me. I'll be right outside Sacramento and I'd guess in the Faiders blackout area.

I haven't missed a game since 94.

Haven't missed a draft since 98...

Time for NFL Network and NFL Sunday Ticket.

Hav-...had both.

I have this sneaking suspicion that Kalifornia might be more expensive. I'm taking the "wait and see" approach...

Yeah, I'm not that hung up on being 30 million under the cap again this year. I just want the best players available. If this draft doesn't have the best players, then that's just the market.

To let the money dictate who you pick is not a formula for success. That's the same as saying well, since there's no players worth 20 mill that we need, let's go after a 20 mill player anyway so we're thrifty.

That's grocery store thinking. Not NFL team building.

LMAO LMAO....of all people to make fun of worshipping a player.....you're such a hippocrate.

Is this a mult or some n00b I need to pretend I've read enough of to form an opinion on?...

RoR is the new and un-improved Darth Carlsatan, after being banned for being himself.

DJ is not going to on the outside in a 34.

Don't even try to make that comparison.

Willie brought an intensity to the game that Curry hasn't even dreamed about.
Willie was a fierce hitter that made you drop your jaw.

Curry is a solid fundamentally sound tackler, but he isn't a bone crusher like Willie.

Never got a reply on this. I wouldn't want to give that kind of money to a player who's gonna ride the pine for at least 1 year either.


As far Curry goes i think a lot of people think that an OLB in a 3-4 rushes the passer from a 3 point stance most of the time. There have been some do it that way but OLBs in the 3-4 play from a two point stance alot. LOLBs usually don't play with their hand in the dirt. I was watching a Steelers replay on NFLN last night and both of their OLBs where in a 2 point stance almost exclusively.


PhilFree:arrow:

I wouldn't expect any qb to start as a rookie, including a #1 pick. I'd rather groom them behind a vet. But that's just me.

As for Sanchez, I don't know. Stafford's the player I want.

As for what stance Curry comes out of, I don't think that's the issue for anyone. A lack of polished moves and experience is.

I'm with you as it relates to starting a rookie QB.

However, I've said of the two, Stafford or Sanchez, that Sanchez is more NFL ready and better equipped to start his rookie year than Stafford, and it appears that some of the draft gurus now see it the same way.

From a pure talent standpoint, Stafford would appear to have more upside.

But in watching a lot of both, I think Sanchez is going to be the better QB, because he just appears to have the intangibles that the great ones all have.

I haven't seen sanchez play much at all. I'm pretty concerned about the single year starting, though. That's not historically a good thing. But, hey, we're talking about a team that's starting a QB with one year of experience since high school.

People also say neither Stafford of Sanchez are gonna be as ready as Ryan and Flacco. I'm wary of both but although a Jr Stafford has over 30 starts and to me that holds alot of weight.


PhilFree:arrow:

Wow, way to ignore what I said! I said he doesn't have the starts. He doesn't have the continual increase of his completion % over those QUALITY STARTS. Oh, and Colt McCoy has a much better completion % and will be better than Mark Sanchez ever will. I just wanted to make sure that you remember that I said that. SO next season, when he's going at the top (as he should), remember me.

Doesn't McCoy play in the bleedin' spread?

I'm not concerned about that one year of starting experience.

He at USC for four years, played in a pro set, is a hard worker both on the field and in the film room (reputed to be Manningesque in his dedication to film study), and has a level of maturity beyond most of the kids coming out.

I get that, but I just think Sanchez has the maturity to succeed.

Colt McCoy!

LMAO

You people are ****ing clueless.

JFC

Yeah but those starts were in the NFL. IMO since Cassel has been in the league for 4 years the comparison and number of starts between him and Sanchez are hard to make.


PhilFree:arrow:

Cassel's still every bit the risk, and it's questionable as to whether the upside is even close.

One year of starting in the NFL. I'd rather have the QB that has one year in the NFL and shown he can handle it, than the college QB that has one year of starting experience.

I'm pounding my fist because you keep insisting that Curry is an exception to the rule. Find me an example of an OLB who converted to play 3-4 DE. Lamar Woodley, James Harrison, Demarcus Ware, Greg Ellis, Manny Lawson, Parys Haralson, Kamerion Wimbley, Willie McGinest, Adalius Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Terrell Suggs, Jarrett Johnson, Jerry Porter, Matt Roth, Bryan Thomas, Calvin Pace. These are all the 3-4 OLBs in the NFL. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM played defensive end in college. And Harrison is the only one of them that is under 260 lbs.

I keep pounding my fist because you are suggesting that OLBs can convert to a 3-4 OLB. And I'm asking you to show me an example of when this actually worked? If it's so easy for big OLBs to move to 3-4 OLB, then why of the 16 3-4 OLBs are ZERO of them former OLBs? It's because in a 3-4 OLB role, rushing the passer takes priority over all the other things an OLB does. It's not good enough to be okay at rushing the passer. You have to be exceptional. Curry CAN rush the passer. But it's not a strength. Again, it's like asking a RB who occasionally caught a few passes in college but did it well to be an every-down receiver. Can Curry bullrush? Does he know the large assortment of pass rush moves like the swim move? Does he know how to fire off the snap? Curry spent his entire college career training to be a versatile linebacker. You are suggesting that he, an occasional pass rusher, has the same expertise as a college defensive end who practiced at the position for years. And that's a huge stretch.

We're talking about a #3 pick here. Curry has shown he can rush the passer, but can he do it exceptionally the majority of the downs? Haven't we learned our lesson about trying to make college players play out of position? There are 8 NFL teams that say that college OLBs don't make good 3-4 OLBs. 15 of 16 OLBs are over 260 lbs (Curry is not). For a 3-4 OLB, it's better to be a very good pass rusher who can learn to play average at the OLB position than an OLB who can learn to be an average pass rusher. Therefore, Curry does NOT belong on the outside in a 3-4. Nor does DJ. I will keep pounding my fist until you acknowledge that moving Curry to 3-4 OLB is not something NFL teams do.