FFS Way to miss the point. I could give a shit about style points. The fact remains that we could be a better team with Charles being used properly. We won't always get the lucky breaks and when we don't I'd like us to still have a shot at winning.

yeah OTWP, you seem thrilled!!!!!!1

exactly

This is the planet, aren't you supposed to say "Chiefs in danger of loosing Charles"?

I completely agree. And if we never had to face an opponent better than Cleveland then I would say, "leave well enough alone." Unfortunately that is not the case.

Well I suppose a few members of our coaching staff think it's dangerous to let Charles "loose" but I'm OK with it. ;)

if shaun smith catches him nick wright will be in danger of losing his marbles

I'm not either. I'm also not expecting the offense to ****ing blow every week either.

I'll worry about 3 weeks from now in 3 weeks, but right now i will just enjoy wins because when we were 2-14 I said I don't give a shit how we win.

I meant to ask you for my packing purposes, what are the odds you get that jersey back tomorrow? I'll just have to pack an extra shirt for the game if not. No rush. I'll be happy whenever I get it.

We could be a better team if our QB could actually throw a downfield pass too.

I'm not missing any point. I'll enjoy the wins as they come and not keep focusing on weeks from now when the Chiefs might be 4-3, 3-4 or 2-5.

And that's where we differ.

As long as JC is only getting 12 touches, I fully expect the offense to blow every week - especially considering we did nothing against the worst defense we'll face all year.

And regarding the jersey, I'm waiting for a call back. When are you leaving?

So after all this, Jamaal's comments after the game "I'm the backup" (which I think he resents), can we finally put to rest the notion of who starts doesn't matter?

It does matter. It matters to the players. And apparently the starters tend to get more touches.

Saturday, 7 AM. I could probably just have you ship it to the hotel if there was a chance it was ready on Thursday. I'm staying in Independence.

I'll keep in touch. If I'm able to get it on Thursday, I'll overnight it to your home address.

You are the man. Just let me know what the extra cost would be for that.

I think it matters that we have a front office/coaching staff that hasn't liked Charles for some reason since the day they got here. This is personal all the guy has ever done on the field is produce.

I tend to agree. It doesn't make sense but what else is there to go on? It's not on production.

The staff and mgmt seem to always pick fights with our most talented players. Have you noticed that?

Bowe, DJ & now Charles. I really don't get what they're trying to do.

Todd Haley - "I'll take 53 Lance Longs".

Yeah I'll bet so Todd. :shake:

Charles has twice as many receptions as Jones. It is clear that the staff loves passing to Charles more than Jones.

Yeah and if Haley hadn't been so hard to DJ as he was, do you think DJ would even be remotely playing how he is?

What makes you think it was Haley's influence?

Dear God.

Amazing how people claim Haley acting like an idiot is the reason that DJ is playing well, and not the fact that DJ has come out and said that NOW he understands the 3-4.

Some of you folks should quit watching Friday Night Lights.

This is the NFL, not high school football.

Charles couldn't get on the field last year, didn't dress for a game..he only got played when LJ made them cut him, before then Charles did nothing. He gets on the field and plays with no other option there.

They now give themselves another option and he goes back to not playing very much.

Yea we need to be hard on DJ and Charles while meanwhile acting like Matt Cassel is the Baby Jesus, no talk of him at all!

I just think there's never any place to berate a person in front of others like that. Yeah, you can give 'em hell for screwing up...but when you start slapping labels on people like that it can have a profound impact. I know, I know...this is the NFL. But I've seen a lot of coaches be able to get maximum talent/performance without resorting to that.

Heck, I've seen a big difference in Haley this year and the players seem to respond to him better. Bizarro world continues...Haley's going to have to calm Carthon down. Or just send him packing.

I 2nd the thoughts of the following people's comments to this.

The point isn't on DJ. The larger point is that for some reason they mess with our best players?

Jamaal was the 2nd best back in the league behind CJ once he got the start last year. He works hard. He's motivated. There's no reason to treat him like this?

Guy should be starting and getting more touches. He's earned it. Meanwhile, we have a QB who continually gets a pass. He hasn't earned his spot.

How do you think that looks?

Even if we take the approach that it's fine, then why isn't the QB getting his ass lambasted every 5 seconds?

So you think players at this level can't be motivated?

Apparently DJ couldn't understand the 4-3 either because they played him all over the place.

your and idiot, this has been discussed to no end.

Wright said the same thing on his show.

The staff read Chambers the riot act for not breaking up the INT, instead of Cassel for making a shitty decision and an even shittier throw.

Because they don't have an option? Because different players respond to different types of motivation?

It all begins and ends with the suckage of Cassel. It wouldn't matter if JC is getting 25 carries, as long as #7 is behind center it won't make a difference.

It is shit that Cassel is held to a lower standard among the Front OFfice. It sucks that we will have to loose a few and him be terrible to make a change.

DJ has had some personal issues over the years, which I believe contributed to his lack of success and focus on the football field.

The Chiefs haven't had a defensive coordinator or staff worth a ****ing shit since 1991, which I believe also hurt his growth.

As for motivation, while every player is different, I don't think it comes from being benched, called out and yelled at routinely.

I think it comes from structure and support, something the defense has been sorely lacking since Marty left.

Yeah I just don't understand the Charles dilemma.

The organization talked about getting playmakers and we have a top end playmaker and we don't get him the ball. Actually we have a couple on offense who need touches to be effective.

On a side not Bowe has looked very comfy catching the ball this season so far. I think he actually is making that step to the next level.

You should see how it is in Chicago and LA... and I can't even imagine how NY media is

Haley seems to have a bit LaRussa in him - playing lessor favorites and alienating young talent for some reason known only for him.

Jamaal is happy right now, I just got off the phone with him.

Chambers should have been reamed for that.

Still think it's game situations and quarterback play so far, primarily, injuries and fumbling secondarily. Should he touch the ball more over the course of the season? Definitely. But when they're not sustaining drives because the QB is missing receivers, when they're playing conservatively because of a big lead in bad weather, and when they're in a close game on the road where they've already thrown picks, they're in situations that would lean towards more carries for Jones.

And it's a *two week* sliver of the season. It's a hair early to go into panic mode over it.

How does "not sustaining drives" favor Jones? Wouldn't it be just the opposite? If you're having trouble moving the chains, it's even more imperative to give the ball to your best back early so that he can help the offense get in rhythm.

There are still some some huge flashing red lights to this situation regardless of any circumstance.

I sure hope we are missing something here. Because I swear to god if I were in JC's position and I was being basically demoted after a great production last season, I would revolt to say the least. **** taking one for the team.

Jamaal has 22 carries while having 1 TD and an extremely great 53 yard TD. 144 yards.

Jones has 33 carries and had an awesome game @ cleveland and really pulled through. 120 yards.

Jamaal should be getting the majority of the carries and its clear who is more productive so far. But would people stop bitching and realise we have 2 of the best RB's in the league and its not like we are giving Jamaal 2 carries and Jones 50?

No doubt.

However, Cassel should have been too.

According to the players that contacted Wright about JC, he wasn't.

Double standard.

I think you could argue that Jones is their best back, that Charles is their best playmaker, their home run threat.

Either way, the failure in execution as far as drives go is not a matter of which RB is on the field, it's a matter of Cassel failing to connect on his throws. You'll notice that in the second half friday, when his ducks began to float into the same area code as his receivers, they were able to move the chains.

But, again, I think if it is an intentional decision to not give Charles the ball (and I'm not convinced that it is) I think it has more to do with game situation, and secondarily to do with Charles injury history paired with his history of fumbles. I think, all-in-all, the most feasible reason is that they're protecting him after his chronic shoulder issues last year.

If the culture is "accountable" and all but one are subject to accountability, either in verbal thrashing or benching, I can see that would create a problem on a team.

Especially if the majority of people in the locker room thinks the other guy gives them a better chance to win.

You know, it occurs to me that the guy we should really be wondering about at this point isn't Charles, it's McCluster. Why isn't he more involved?

OTWP just curious but what should have been said to Cassel. Not implying I don't think something should be said just wondering what you think . I know what I would say but just wondering.

I don't.

You cannot protect a player if he legitimately has frequent injury concerns. Could be practice, walking to his car, etc., the injuries will find him.

More likely, I could see that it's protecting the wallet of Clark, so that we're not looking down the barrel of a huge second contract if Charles replicates is second half of '09 for a full season. Cause we'd be looking at a certain holdout and/or expensive extension.

He's 5'5" and Cassel can throw it only 3 feet. Thus, DMC is too tall.

That he made a poor decision and a worse throw. Bowe was open on the other side of the field.

Hold the SOB accountable, instead of blaming Chambers for the INT.

Are you saying that the locker room believes Croyle gives them a better chance to win than Cassel?

I'm not going to suggest you're right or wrong, because I don't know one way or the other, but I will ask where you got that idea from. I haven't seen or heard anything that would indicate that.

We're going to need our entire stable of backs against SF's D. Their Backers can bring it against the run, and I feel reasonably confident Cassel won't be airing it out much.

I do agree, a stronger dose of JC would be nice to see, but I won't start complaining until we lose a game(s) because of it. So far, so good.

Thats what I was thinking.

How many times do we just throw one up for Bowe like other big strong recievers. If he is the receiver that the F/O is putting him up to be give him a chance to make a big play. If Cassel can keep it in bounds.

Look at the Texans. I know Bowe is no Johnson but give him a chance to outrun or outjump a smaller corner once in a while.

We didn't score a single offensive TD in Cleveland, and our best offensive player had 11 carries. I'd say this raises the worry flag.

The odds of us winning with 0 offensive TDs and a QB with a 46.1 rating are about as impressive as watching old people ****.

I get the impression from the players that Wright spoke to that the locker room resents Cassel, because he's not held to the same standards the rest of the roster is.

Guys like Chambers and Charles are getting railed on, while Captain Checkdown gets a pass.

I can see why the locker room would resent Cassel. He's doing nothing to help the team win, but being treated like a guy that is carrying the team.

LOL my thoughts exactly. Like my previous post why do we never see a jump ball to Bowe in the endzone once we are inside the 25?

And I don't even think Charles needs a ton more touches. Just about 18 carries with a catch or two would be enough

I don't think they're protecting him, I was just saying injuries are the most feasible conspiracy theory in my mind. Speaking just for me, I don't think they're intentionally limiting his carries at all, as in going into a game thinking "we're going to run Jones more than Charles". I think it's a matter of game situations the first two weeks that ended up favoring Jones' skillset. I don't think it will be like that every week this season.

But I'm not in the locker room, so I'm just guessing as much as you are...

I would say that if they all believed Cassel was the guy, they wouldn't throw him under the bus to a reporter on a story unrelated to him.

If this is all true, there must be some guys who feel strongly about it.

This.

That makes a little more sense, I was interpreting the original comment more from a faith in Croyle angle than a lack of faith in Cassel angle.

They've got to be frustrated in general with their lack of production, even more than we are, and they can see what the weak link is just as clearly.

Exactly. I just don't understand how the F/O does not see this. I think reading the conference from Haley, he sees and knows it.

Noticed a couple times Bowe was thrown behind and over or under and looked pissed. I think it is wearing on them all.

Like I said, I interpreted it more you saying they believed Croyle is the guy, which wouldn't make a whole lot of sense, instead of believing that Cassel is not, which clearly makes every bit of sense. My mistake.

It's a drastically different situation than Jones and Charles, which is a proven veteran and a (in my mind) somewhat less proven, but still proven, younger vet. Jones would make sense as a starter on his own merits, without Charles in the equation. Whereas with Cassel and Croyle, you have an unproven veteran backed up by an unproven injury-prone veteran. Not exactly the embarrassment of riches that the Jones and Charles situation is.

Eric Berry would throw for more yards than Cassel and make the pro bowl

No I probably didn't say that right. I think the team probably just sees it for what it is...and Cassel represents upper management to them. (And lack of production)

so after making it 30 or so posts in and with no real info, can anyone summarize WTF is going on please.

Stupid KC sports media > Rumor > Lies > Confusion > Anger > :cuss::cuss:

Haley will hunt the rat down.

I think the local media should be talking about McCluster on offense.

I think that, so far, McCluster has about 2 rushes for about 2 total yards. And 2 receptions for a total of probably 20 yards.

I'm not seeing the explosive, game-changing, impact of this guy on offense ... or am I missing something? Is he a decoy, maybe?

FAX

No he def. needs more touches too. get him on some crossing routes and get him the ball early and let him run.

Well ... there's only one ball ...

Just ask the Browns' center.

FAX

The thing that I've found strange is that he's spending more time in the backfield than he is split out, and I was under the impression they were planning to take more advantage of his receiver skills.

But maybe I'm just being impatient and that's something that will take a while to develop. Receiver is a position that takes some time to transition from college to pro, and he hasn't focused on it for a couple of years.

Well, you can receive out of the backfield too, I guess. It is strange that McCluster is getting a pass (due, perhaps, to his big return?) while Berry is declared a bust by Petro and Wright is blathering about Charles not getting more of Jones' carries.

FAX

How does anybody believe Cassel isn't getting shit thrown his way? I thought Haley was going to literally kill him a few times last year.

Just because it isn't played out in the media doesn't mean he is getting a free pass from the coaches.

Ya i think we will see more dex receiver packages in the future.

I hope you're right, keg. This would seem to be the most sensible explanation and would make me more confident in thinking that our staff isn't ****ing stupid.

I think it started to become predictable in the PS games a couple times where DMC got drilled on the obvious quick routes to both he and charles. This offense is based around charles, Jones, and DMC. But the CB's will be able to squat or sit and wait on those routes because they know Cassel can't beat them deep. Moeaki has helped in that area but not getting the ball to Chambers and Bowe and streching the field only leaves the defense focusing on the dump offs. And yes they do want to get DMC more involved in running the ball to they just havn't been able to get Charles his carries, enough anyway so Dexter has to wait in line.

THey can't get first downs enough to sustain drives either. Weis can take some blame with play calling but he doesn't have many options on how to call plays with Cassel and his short leash needed to keep his lack of skills under wraps.

It's a problem because the guys on offense think they could be putting up more yards and points if the qb play was better. It's something they realized but now with the 2 wins i think they are like some fans and want to know when is enough with cassel. In other words when will Pioli be willing to acknowlege to hunt that he isn't cut out to be the starter and let Haley and Weis plan accordingly with Croyle and whoever else they try to bring in.

They need to be able to get McCluster the ball in space......and you can't do that when you're not making the defense respect your passing game.