What's wrong with calling a spade a spade?

My hate for Marty is almost legendary.

He was one of the greatest regular season coaches ever, but a playoff choker.

Manning is one of the greatest QBs ever, but a playoff choker.

I'm not sure if I'd hate Manning as much as I hate Marty, but since Manning is gagging for the Colts, I don't actually hate him.

Well I'd point out the fact that Manning, unlike Marty, actually won a Super Bowl, and made it to another, but apparently those don't count.

Yeah, I wouldn't mind...

Yeah, 9-10.... when he wins, it's because he had little to do with it (reasons in this thread include the declining Pats defense and a SB run that "Manning had little to do with"). When he loses, there's no mention of the Colts' awful defense or the 300-400 yards passing that kept them in the game, it's all about that one play that made him look bad. Manning has lost a playoff game after throwing for 400+ yards, and Brady's won a SB after throwing for 145 yards.... those stats alone should show how many variables are involved and how much Manning means to that team. Hell, Matt Cassel went 11-5 with the Patriots. ;)

Like it's been said several times... of course there have been concerns throughout his career, and no one has said he's the most clutch or the greatest playoff QB ever, but the cherry picking around here is ridiculous.

You may be the only person that hates Marty more than I do.

I'd point out the fact that Manning tried to give two playoff games away in that post season, including one to a hapless Chiefs team, and that his teamamtes carried him to victories in those two games.

He did have that one big moment, big play against the Patriots, finally, in that post season, and then simply had to outplay Rex Grossman.

I really don't care about the numbers. What's real is the times he's shit himself. The numbers don't show that. Well, I suppose that 9-10 record does. :)

Manning is 9-10. Take a look at what other top QBs have done in the playoffs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_sta...layoff_records

He's a dog in the postseason.

That's one way to put it. Another is that, instead his usual of keeping his team in it despite a poor defense, that time around he stepped up when needed and made the plays to get them to the SB. Then he had to outplay the Bears defense.

Ok, you win. He sucks.

I guess the summation here is Terry Bradshaw is better at QB than Peyton Manning.. . . . and Bradshaw is > Steve Young.

great link, thanks. can't believe Favre's playoff record is 2 games above .500, that's amazing.

Guess I need to put Favre ahead of Manning now too, he'll still be lower than Brady and Montana, but definitely higher than Peyton. LMAO

The Colts defense stepped in that playoff run and played better than they have before or since.

Joseph Addai and Dominick Rhodes played like one of the best rushing duos in the league.

Manning had two terrible games.

The Bears had Rex Grossman.

Think about that.

Rex Grossman.

The Colts gave Manning all kinds of time in the pocket, and they played a Tampa 2.

Terry Bradshaw is the most underrated QB that I've ever seen, unless it's Bart Starr.

The media had us running for 250 yards against that defense, and you just knew that because of all the love we were going to get stuffed. If we could have ran the ball, and/or had Law not tackled by a shoelace followed by Green being tackled by his own lineman Manning might not have won that Superbowl.

The notion that Manning's defense has been poor is another misleading argument put out by his apologists. His first three playoff losses, for example, were by scores of

19-16
23-17
41-0

The first two aren't anything particularly bad for a defense to allow in a playoff game, and Manning didn't put a single point on the board in the beat down.

The points scored in the other losses

14 (Patriots won with 24)
3 (Patriots won with 20)
18 (Steelers won with 21)
24 (Chargers won with 28)
17 (Chargers won with 23)
17 (Saints won with 31, but that's because of the Manning pick-6)
16 (Jets won with 17)

The defense has played less than stellar, but it's not been any kind of disaster. Manning and his offense have put up 17 points or fewer in 8 of his 10 losses, and 18 points in another. It's not just that Manning hasn't helped his defense, it's that Manning and the offense has been a drag on the team.

Underrated probably, 4 SB's is definitely not a coincidence. He was 4 for 4, too. Yet no where near P. Manning or Steve Young in terms of the position.

If you take the top 20 QBs of all time, Marino and Manning have to be in the running for worst playoff QBs, probably in that order.

Lol?

Why are you lumping Marino and Manning together?

Philip Rivers and Marino are a much more rational pairing.

Manning and Steve Young fit more closely. Both have a SB where they were the starters for their team, and definitely should have won more in their careers. (Steve Young has 3 SB's but 2 as backup)

Rivers is not a top 20 all-time QB, and Manning is nothing like a match to Young in the playoffs. He's Marino II.

Ok, I'm arguing against your opinion here I see. No point to this.

Hey, some actual stats and analysis!!!! PBJ !!!

Saying Manning and the offense was a drag on the team in several of those games is quite a stretch though....

22/38, 290, 1 TD, 0 INT, 90.9 rating vs Pittsburgh
33/48, 402, 3 TD, 2 INT, 97.7 rating vs SD
25/42, 310, 1 TD, 0 INT, 90.4 rating vs SD
31/45, 333, 1 TD, 1 INT, 88.5 rating vs NO
18/26, 225, 1 TD, 0 INT, 108.7 rating vs NYJ

You make a good point... it's not like he was constantly needing to trade TDs in those games, but he's not exactly the problem either. For comparison, Brady's highest rating in a playoff loss is 82.5.

Brady definitely stunk it up in the losses to the Broncos and the Ravens. A couple of things, though. First, Brady's 14-5. There's no comparing that to 9-10. He's clearly not dragging his team down in general. Second, Brady was hurt in the 2007 SB, was harassed all game long, and still led the offense down for the go ahead score with about 3 minutes left to go in the game. Manning was healthy in 2009 when he marched his team down the field and then threw a pick 6 against the Saints. To say that Manning was not a drag on the team that game just doesn't pass the smell test. He shit himself in the Super Bowl when he had a chance to tie that game, and that killed his team.

Manning has thrown for 8 touchdowns, 10 interceptions in his losses, and for 19/8 in his wins. A team built around the pass, and with Peyton Manning at the helm, is averaging less than 1 touchdown per game in its playoff losses, and more than 2 per game in its playoff wins.

That offense is killing the team in the losses, and that's on Manning.

Well, Brady's team was originally built around defense and special teams and was given a defense capable of holding the Rams to 17 points. There's no comparing 14-5 to 9-10 because even Matt Cassel went 11-5 as the starter of the Patriots.

Yes, of course Brady has been more clutch, but I just think there's more to it... yeah, it's pretty damn impressive to do that against the Giants, like you said, or even the Rams when you're trying to slay Goliath. At the same time, he wasn't everything to those teams.

I think a big part of Manning's career has been being the one guy that carries the Colts... he's always put it solely on himself to win games since he hasn't often been able to rely on a running game or defense. That's obviously a flaw when you're the one calling the plays and end up pushing too hard and throwing a pick or taking a sack late in the game, and that's all some people choose to see. I look at that line against the Chargers and it's a little mind boggling.... 402 yards, 3 TDs, (with 50 yards of run support)... and they still managed to lose the game. I guess when you say "that's on Manning," you're right... so much of it has always been on Manning... and I'm not saying he's never gotten any support, but a big part of the 'choking' is the fact that the team wasn't ever built for the playoffs.

In 2007, besides playing their division opponents, the Patriots beat 4 division champs and a wild card team. The Patriots went 18-1 against a difficult schedule. The next year, against a very easy schedule, they went 11-5. Also, Matt Cassel won 10 games last year, for a different team, so you're not talking about Manning to Painter here.

No player is everything to his team. That's just as true of Manning as it is of Brady. Brady and Manning both have the freedom to audible, to call the protections at the line, to work with the coaches on the game plan and play selection, and everything else you'd expect top QBs to be doing in this era. What's different is that Manning runs a modified no-huddle and often makes the calls at the line instead of in the huddle.

The notion that it's been all Manning is one of the biggest myths perpetuated in NFL history. Manning has been surrounded with top shelf talent for his entire career. From Marshall Faulk, to Edgerrin James to Marvin Harrison, to Reggie Wayne, to Dallas Clark and others, he's been blessed with top shelf teammates, and the defense, while definitely the weaker side of the ball in general, has had players like Sanders, Mathis, Freeney, Bethea, etc...

I think I've reached the end of the internet.

Manning needs another operation, he doesn't have the nerve.

For what crazy Jim Irsay is worth:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-colts-manning

I'm going to ignore this thread...

the "Peyton Manning is a playoff choker" myth I have put to sleep and compared his stats, games, and chokes with Tom Brady several times and people can search for those if they want to see them...

and in fact, Peyton Manning actually graded out as the most "clutch" QB in the NFL last season, by a wide margin...even though I think the idea of a "clutch" QB is overrated...I don't think it really exists.

and to the Pats fans who troll our board for some reason...

I'm not going to argue whether or not Tom or Peyton is better...but I'm 100% certain Peyton Manning means more to the Colts than Tom Brady means to the Patriots (in terms of winning games)

arguing otherwise is pure lunacy and homerism

Hallo, what is haps

lol stupid comment,so what brady is better cause mannings hurt that makes no sense

"compete we will"
what is this guy, ****ing Yoda?

you know what sucks?

Indy is probably a team in contention for Luck if PM misses the whole year.

You know what also sucks?

Because of the new rookie CBA deal, they can afford to pay both Luck and Manning.

You know what also sucks?

The Broncos.

That's the odd thing about the arguments against Manning... they seem to ignore this.... Brady has won 3 playoff games when throwing for under 200 yards, and 2 more at 201. In a quarter of his playoff wins, he hasn't had to be much more than efficient. Hell, in his first AFC Champ game and SB, he threw for 260 yards and 1 TD combined. It was an extremely important TD, but it's not like he had the team on his back during those games.

On the flip side, Manning has only won 1 game when throwing for fewer than 200 yards, and only 3 more with fewer than 300 yards. Of course, he's not playing with scrubs, but I doubt he'd be labelled a choker if he was on a team that was built for the playoffs with defense & special teams.

Why would it?

mortreportChris Mortensen

Official: Sources say Manning had surgery this am - cervical fusion with 2-3 month minimum recovery.No word on whether he will be put on IR.

Sweet, we won't be facing him.

WOW!


And he's still going to make $20 million this year. Damn.

Nice. Instead of us going 13-3 we're going to go 14-2 now.

When the hell did they sign his extension? WTF were they thinking doing that without him being medically cleared?

JasonLaCanforaJason La Canfora

His recovery and how that goes, Colts habve $28M option bonus on his due by 4th day of 2012 League Year. Interesting 2011 in Indy

Cervical fusions have a hell of a lot longer recovery period than 2-3 months, especially for a QB. He's going on IR.

So what? March of next year or so? Not at all sure that gets paid. Not at all...

Manning is untradeable due to that contract, right?

Would they cut him?

Manning is untradeable due to that contract, right?

Would they cut him?

Now we just need someone to take out Eli's knees and the league will be free of the Manning stench forever.

<a href="http://www.gifbin.com/984053"><img src="http://www.gifbin.com/bin/032010/1269259657_omg_cat.gif" alt="funny gifs" /></a>

Stay down, bitch.

Hundreds of miles away, in rural Mississippi, a man perks up from his work bench. Something on the garage radio had caught his ear.

“Something something quarterback facing possible season-ending neck surgery.” Hmmm. Is it already 1? He turns off the Jim Rome show and and scratches his graying stubble. He glances at a scuffed up football sitting at the end of his work bench, dust collecting on it, and the old tire swing. Next to the football finds a family picture. Himself and his two daughters; they grow up so fast. It’s hard being a father when you spend half of the year away from home.

He puts the picture back into his wallet and shoves it into his Wranglers. He grips the football firmly, with familiarity. This is where he belongs. He throws a tight spiral right through the old tire swing and shakes the cobwebs out of his shoulder. Indianapolis sounds pretty fun.

Texans if they dont win the south this year they never will.

He just needs to retire.

I predict the Colts win the division w/Kerry Collins. Manning comes back just in time for the playoffs and does a Griese impression. The millions of stories about Favre are a distant memory to the 2011 Peyton Place drama.

JimIrsayJim Irsay

Statement shortly...


i bet they put him on IR

Between the Bills game and playing Collins behind that atrocious Indy offensive line in Week 5, Hali might have 10 sacks by midseason.

COLTS STATEMENT ON PEYTON MANNING

By Indianapolis Colts

Posted 5 minutes ago




Read
Discuss

Comments:

As previously stated on Monday, Sept. 5th, Peyton Manning has undergone further testing and consultation with several specialists regarding his rehabilitation.


As previously stated on Monday, Sept. 5th, Peyton Manning has undergone further testing and consultation with several specialists regarding his rehabilitation. The results of these tests and the consensus of the consultations was that further surgery was warranted. Peyton has undergone this surgery today by having a single level anterior fusion. The surgery was un-eventful.



This procedure is performed regularly throughout the country on persons from all walks of life, including professional football players. Two former Colts players had this same procedure last winter and have fully resumed their careers. Rehabilitation from such surgery is typically an involved process. Therefore, there will be no estimation of a return date at this time. We will keep Peyton on the active roster until we have a clearer picture of his recovery process.



Peyton will immediately begin the rehabilitation regimen mapped out by the surgeon. We anticipate no further updates or availabilities beyond those required by the NFL Media Policy for the immediate future.



Thank you for your consideration.

Oh great. Now if the Chiefs beat the Colts it's not gonna count.

I watched ESPN yesterday afternoon, and that little ticker thing they have on the side of the screen that lets you know the next topic.....yeah, every other topic read "Manning Update" lol

...just in case no one caught it 45 seconds prior.

Manning ain't coming back for awhile:

http://www.neurospinewi.com/articles/anterior_cerv.html

A win is a win. With the brutal schedule we have, I'll take any breaks that come our way.

Manning never asked for this

Frustrating isnt it....

I wouldn't be surprised if Manning retires having not taken a snap this season. The Colts Org can fill seats in the meantime.

ha, **** that. A W is a W in my book.

He's done. There's no way he comes back from this at his age.

If I never hear "it was a nice win but, but, but" again, it would be quite a good thing.

No way he plays this season, and I won't be surprised if he is done forever. I don't like him, but never want to see someone go out on anything but their own terms.

Indy claims they have 2 previous player who fully recovered from that same procedure and played again.

I didn't hear who it was though. :shrug:

These numbers are one of the many reasons I always say stats mean jack.

Bottom line.

Peyton Manning has made one big play in a big moment.

Big moments are late playoff game, with your team needing a score to tie a take a lead.

Every other opportunity, he has failed to produce.

And while late comeback wins are nice in the regular season, at the end of the day, if you don't make those plays in the playoffs, what you accomplished in the regular season also means jack.

I think he is hinting at Cassel winning 11 games with the same team.. Whereas the Colts are Manning.. If Collins wins 11 games this year then it would blow it up and cost some doubt on Manning....

As for Manning, Besides Faulk, none of those players are top shelf talents.. Hence why they look like ass when they leave.. This has been talked about tons of times.. If Kennison traded spots with Marvin he would be HOF worthy.. Same with all these slot WRs and RBs that leave and look below average..

I hope he can still do Saturday night Live again. He was funny as shit.

**** that.. Favre disproves that thinking.. Some players deserve hurt.. Manning is not one of those.. But if I were him, he has enough money and a Super Bowl.. Become a commentator, he is funny as ****..

He needs to retire, because his line will kill him..

He would be a natural fit as a commentator or even an actor, but if any multi-multi-millionaire ex-player is willing to take on the workload of an NFL head coach, it's Peyton Manning.

He had a good career that was made great by changing rule enforcement in the game. He'll be missed. Good luck in retirement Peyton, because I'll be damned surprised if you ever play again.

Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne were/are both top shelf.

We'll find out about Wayne soon enough.