Sure, raised from comically low to extremely low.

What kind of practical effect do you think it had, though? If you do WestLaw search for case and motions referencing Twombly, you get something around 120K matches. It's like 10x more than 200+ years of cases with reference to Marybury v. Madison.

Practically, it was a huge deal, no?

.

Horrible news. Of course I made fun of him when he was playing with a rival team, but he was one of those iconic players. I had a tremendous amount of respect for his ability. Just a very sad turn of events.

Man...

I get that making fun of someone's death is politically incorrect. But one of my best friends is a Charger fan and has made a TON of DT death jokes over the years. So I've been texting the jokes I've read on here and apparently they're not as funny as his...

Funny how that works.

This is a guy I respected. He was a hard-hitting, passionate pain in the ass to us, but I don't ever remember hearing anything about him on or off the field that would make me despise him.

Now, the day some turd like Sharpe or Romanowski offs himself, I'll have a ****ing field day with that.

Well...yeah. If someone is a dick over and over, I can understand wanting a bit of turnabout. And this isn't an obituary. Some people joke about these things because that's how they deal with it. Some people joke about it because they don't feel a strong emotional connection to the situation. And some people are just dicks.

First reaction was the thought of Jim Tyrer.

I didn't know Jr. Seau, and I didn't know much about him. I can not imagine the kind of pain that makes some one kill themself. I feel sadness for his family and friends. I won't be lowering myself to joke about his death. I am embarrassed that my fellow CP'ers here feel compelled to do so.

This

I've been to a Chiefs-Chargers game in SD wearing my DT jersey and never had one distasteful remark made to me. Not about the jersey or DT anyway!

The place was probably full of Chiefs fans though.

Yep. That maybe the Tipping Point.

Demon, you never fail to surprise.

Isn't the end always sort of "sudden". I mean, the exact end.

RIP Junior.

He was 43.

While I'm in the camp that is anti-suicide (seeing it as selfish and a cop-out), there is a debate that depression/suicide is a medical condition and not simply a "choice". But, in Seau's case--as in the case of all ex-football players who get hit in the head a lot--the two words in the post I quoted sum it up. There have been many ex-players who've offed themselves, and IMO their repeated blows to the head have something to do with it. (Wasn't there a recent story of an ex-player with a history of mental issues who literally willed his head to the study and research of brain damage because he was so confident it was the reason he was suicidal?) It's tough when a result of the game we all love is stuff like this; but you can't have contact sports without contact, be it football or hockey or even soccer.

I dont know, but the house he off'd himself in wasn't exactly a poor man's home. He lived right there on the beach. Oceanside is one of San Diego's nicest beach communities IMO. It's also where i grew up. It's a small coastal military town right next to Camp Pendelton. His house was literally 20 feet away from one of the nicest beaches in San Diego.

I always worried about those houses actually. Seems like the Ocean could just swell up slightly and swallow those things whole.

I have 3 metal plates and 12 screws in my face from a soccer accident and loved playing so muchthat I played for 8 years after that. It kinda makes me understand why NFL players continue after repeated concussions.

And too stupid to wear a seat belt under such circumstances?

I'd have to question your last sentence.

Not that time but I went there in 99 or 00 and the stadium was half red.

If you equate not wearing a seat belt (which I always do wear one) to committing suicide, I have to question your ability to make rational comparisons.

Wow, juniors' mom talking to the media was sad and strange at the same time.

Junior Seau dies at 43

OCEANSIDE, Calif. -- Former NFL star Junior Seau was found dead at his home Wednesday, authorities said. He was 43.

Police chief Frank McCoy said Seau's girlfriend reported finding him unconscious with a gunshot wound to the chest and lifesaving efforts were unsuccessful. A gun was found near him, McCoy said, and the incident is being investigated as a suicide.

Seau's mother appeared before reporters, weeping uncontrollably.

"I don't understand ... I'm shocked," Luisa Seau cried out.

Her son gave no indication of a problem when she spoke to him by phone earlier this week, she said.

"He's joking to me; he called me a 'homegirl,' " she said.

Seau was a standout linebacker with the University of Southern California before going to the San Diego Chargers, whom he led to the Super Bowl following the 1994 season.

Seau becomes the eighth member of those '94 Chargers, who lost Super Bowl XXIX to the 49ers, to die at a young age. The others: Chris Mims, David Griggs, Rodney Culver, Lewis Bush, Curtis Whitley, Shawn Lee and Doug Miller.

Seau's death also follows the suicide last year of former Chicago Bears player Dave Duerson, who also shot himself in the chest.

"Everyone at the Chargers is in complete shock and disbelief right now. We ask everyone to stop what they're doing and send their prayers to Junior and his family," the team said in a statement.

"It's a sad thing. It's hard to understand," said Bobby Beathard, who as Chargers general manager took Seau with the fifth pick overall in the 1990 draft. "He was really just a great guy. If you drew up a player you'd love to have the opportunity to draft and have on the team and as a teammate, Junior and Rodney (Harrison), they'd be the kind of guys you'd like to have.

"He was a leader emotionally and he played that way," Beathard said. "He was great to young kids. I just can't imagine this, because I've never seen Junior in a down frame of mind. He was always so upbeat and he would keep people up. He practiced the way he played. He made practice fun. He was a coach's dream. He was an amazing guy as well as a player and a person. This is hard to believe."

Seau remained with the Chargers until 2003 and went on to play with the Miami Dolphins and New England Patriots before retiring after the 2009 season.

"Junior was a fierce competitor whose passion and work ethic lifted his teammates to greater heights. His enthusiasm for the game was infectious and he passed that on to everyone who was around him. He loved the game so much, and no one played with more sheer joy," Dolphins CEO Mike Dee said in a statement.

“

Chargers He wasn't just a football player, he was so much more. He was loved by everyone in our family, our organization and throughout the NFL. This is just such a tragic loss. One of the worst things I could ever imagine. My prayers go out to Junior's family. It's heartbreaking.
” --Chargers president Dean Spanos

"Junior was one-of-a-kind. The league will never see anyone like him again," Dee said.

The Patriots also issued a statement expressing grief over Seau's death. "This is a sad day for the entire Patriots organization, our coaches and his many Patriots teammates."

Chargers president Dean Spanos called Seau an icon and a friend.

"I can't put into words how I'm feeling right now. I'm shocked and devastated," Spanos said in a statement. "Junior was my friend. We all lost a friend today. Junior was an icon in our community. He transcended the game. He wasn't just a football player; he was so much more. He was loved by everyone in our family, our organization and throughout the NFL.

"This is just such a tragic loss. One of the worst things I could ever imagine. My prayers go out to Junior's family. It's heartbreaking."

Texans linebacker Brian Cushing was one of many current and former NFL players stunned by the news.

"Wow shocked right now, I tapped Juniors picture every single day before heading out to practice at USC. R.I.P. to a legend n awesome person," the fellow USC alumnus wrote on his Facebook page.

"As a young linebacker, Junior was my hero growing up and once I had the opportunity meet him I saw that he was everything I hoped he would be and more," former Dolphin Zach Thomas said in a statement. "Getting the chance to play alongside of Junior Seau, the greatest linebacker to ever play the game, made my dreams come true. I am absolutely devastated to hear this news. Today I lost my hero, my friend, my buddy."

Jason Taylor, who also played with Thomas and Seau on the Dolphins, said he was "devastated."

Sports World Reacts To Seau's Death

As news filtered out of Seau's death, former teammates, friends and other athletes whose lives Seau touched reacted on Twitter. Reaction

"It would be easy for me to say he was a great friend and teammate, and a tremendous competitor, but that would be selling Junior short," Taylor said in a statement. "Junior Seau was an individual of great honor and integrity, a leader of men and someone with a deep rooted passion for giving of himself to make the people, the community and especially the children around him better. This is an immeasurable loss for so many. My heart and prayers go out to Junior's family, Gina and their children. I'm going to miss you buddy."

Commissioner Roger Goodell sent his condolences to the Seau family on Twitter and NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith said, "The NFLPA player family today joins with the Seau family to mourn a brother lost too soon."

In October 2010, Seau survived a 100-foot plunge down a seaside cliff in his SUV, hours after he was arrested for investigation of domestic violence at the Oceanside home he shared with his girlfriend. The woman had told authorities that Seau assaulted her during an argument.

There was no evidence of drugs or alcohol involved in the crash and Seau told authorities he fell asleep while driving. He sustained minor injuries.

Seau spent parts of 20 seasons in the NFL, including 1990-2002 with his hometown Chargers. He led them to their only Super Bowl appearance, was voted to a team-record 12 straight Pro Bowls and was an All-Pro six times.

He amassed 1,526 tackles, 56.5 sacks and 18 interceptions in his career.



"Twenty years, to be part of this kind of fraternity, to be able to go out and play the game that you love, and all the lessons and the friends and acquaintances which you meet along the way, you can't be in a better arena," Seau said last August after the Chargers announced he would be inducted into the team's Hall of Fame.

Seau was the fifth overall pick in the 1990 draft out of Southern California, and stayed with the Charges until being traded to the Dolphins. He came out of retirement a few times to play with the Patriots in search of a Super Bowl ring and was with the team when they lost to the New York Giants in the Super Bowl after the 2007 season, which ended New England's quest for a perfect season.

"We are tremendously saddened to hear this news and our hearts go out to his family and children," USC athletic director Pat Haden said in a statement. "Junior Seau was one of the greatest legends in USC football history. He will always be remembered by USC as the original No. 55."

More than 100 people gathered outside of Seau's home, only hours after he was found dead. Families showed up with flowers and fans wearing Chargers jerseys waited to get more news.

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See the comment?

****ing pussy

Sometimes I believe that our society is reducing itself to LCD. Lowest Common Denominator.

Well crap, how do you report a deleted post? Oh, and a mod can still see what you typed.

Don't worry, it won't be long before his next nagger(sp?) comment.

That guy needs to go.

I wish Youtube would start posting these peoples information.

Eh, I think you were faking that injury just to get a free kick or whatever.

lol....I think not.

The hell you say. It's taking a dirt nap.

RIP

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3250/...218d79132a.jpg

20 years in the NFL is nuts. The mom video is as sad as it gets. RIP.

One of those players you wished played for your own team, RIP.

pansy

Perhaps it's because he's had a longer term problem (driving truck off a cliff, suddenly beating his ol lady when he has no history of domestic violence). He played for 20 years in a era where only "pussies" didn't play because of a mere concussion.

lol....I thnk so.

Yeah, then we could all go to his house and kick his ass!

RIP .. good player .....

Anyone in celebrity death thread pick him?

I heard today that Seau was never on any injury report for any type of head injury during his career.

That being said, even if he had a head injury history............

If you tell these guys to play in the league and get paid millions they risk potential head injury type issues later in life.

How many decide not to play?

My grandma was a vegetable for 10 years because my grandpa was far too religious to ever "pull the cord". No, the end isn't always sudden; sometimes it comes years after it humanely should've.

Using that personal anecdote as a demonstration of the opposite end of the spectrum, I'd call suicide at 43, "sudden".

Depends. How many are prevented from the sport by parents who are now more aware of the consequences of aggregate head trauma? Probably a small-ish percentage (say, 10-20%), but enough to make a significant impact on the sport's popularity at that age. Say those kids, instead, are put into basketball and baseball and soccer, and are fans of those sports instead. Now you're talking about the financial success of the league.. what happens when the NFL sees lower gate receipt totals and smaller TV contracts because that generation now spends their disposable income to watch other sports? This seems like a logically fallacious argument, but it definitely is plausible.

I've pretty much given up on arguing with anyone about the supposed "selfishness" of suicide, because I've come to believe that many people are simply incapable of empathic cognitive behavior and cannot understand mental illnesses.

If anything Junior Seau should be the posterboy for this line of thinking: he's tremendously successful, wealthy (I'm supposing), in great shape for his age, has children... and yet, he still kills himself. That is either the most selfish, hateful, shameful thing you can ever do, or a product of some major neurological trauma. He had all the reasons to live and the money to get the best help available, and still shoots himself in the chest. No, the truly selfish thing here is appealing to the "logical high ground" of how those people simply can't rationalize their importance in the lives of others. Bullshit.

If anyone actually believes he was just selfish, go slam your head on the sidewalk a few times every Sunday for 6 months for oh about 20 years.

I used this line of thinking in discussing this with my 16 year old son earlier today. He couldn't grasp how someone with so much to live for could kill themselves. I explained to him that is sometimes the rub. You have so many wonderful things, a dream life, and should be happy but that makes the pain and guilt more unbearable.

Most of us live with the notion that if we just had ___ we'd be happy. What happens when you actually get ____ plus more and you are uncontrollably in pain and miserable? Obviously, Seau had some serious pain. Very sad.

Possible head injury

+

Being the center of the world for decades

+

Only knowing one way of life

-

Money

=

Depression

I have suffered many concussions in my life, also being on the edge of committing suicide. I was lucky, someone saved my life. Once you get to that point you are no longer yourself... and you have lost control. My heart breaks for his children and his other family. Really a tragedy for a great guy from all accounts. R.I.P. Junior Seau.

Sad. I think after his brain is examined and studied this will be another case of CTE.

It is hard to understand severe depression if you haven't suffered from it yourself. Sorry you can't feel empathy. People like you piss me off.

Hahahahaha - we'll soon have so many crutches for people in our society that nobody will need to take any personal responsibility at all. Kid is high energy - must be ADHD... He was raised without a father, give him a pass because he has 5 kids with 4 different mothers. He's depressed so he offed himself, it's okay because he was depressed though. I don't care what ailment you have. If the guy toting around 80 lbs of testicle to use as a chair at any moment hasn't put a bullet in his skull then there isn't an excuse large enough.

Fail=Strong on this.

Please don't hurt my feelings. I'm feeling very vulnerable right now.

I feel empathy for Seau's family and close friends, whose lives are in a bad way right now because of what he did. In light of that, I feel very little for Seau himself.

What is the suicide rate of nfl players to normal people? Enough difference for it to matter?

Six times more if I remember correctly. Someone posted a link to it I think in this thread

How about I kick you in your 80lb's of testicles?

We will find out in the coming months, but this is my guess to: financial issues, could not have the life he was used to playing sports anymore and didn't know how to cope..

I guess we will have to do something about all these people making money and protect them from themselves, redistribute the wealth.. Seems logical..

I'm not actually suffering from that ailment. I only have about 4 lbs of testicles.

So, Junior Seau, a really big-time famous football player, kills himself and we need to mourn his death? His mom, brother, and countless NFL players are now paying tribute? No thanks, count me out.

If someone is truly, utterly crazy, maybe they get a pass. Maybe. Only if they are really completely looney tunes. If someone is terminally ill, drugged up and living in a world of pain, and they have talked to everyone and said all their good-byes, then maybe they get a pass too.

But, if someone is just merely depressed, suicide is one of the most unbelievably, horribly, selfish things anyone can ever do, unless they literally have no one who cares about them, which is unlikely unless they are over 90.

With just one stupid, selfish act that person, at least for a while, wrecks the lives of all their family and friends who have to go on after them, mourning and wondering why. Sometimes for years. I guess if someone doesn't care at all about anyone who might care about them, so be it, and it all boggles my mind because life is great, but if isn't great for them for whatever reason, they should at least think about what they might be doing to others.

Screw Junior Seau, he's an idiot, he broke his mom's heart, and I will look down on his tarnished legacy.

Not surprised you don't get it at all... not one single bit.

I wonder what the suicide rate of non NFL players that that retired at a relative young age from the one thing they worked for since a very young age and reached the pinnacle of that thing that they had worked for...


yes, losing your identity and purpose sucks bad...

No. You can ignore if you want. I just find it sad. Always liked watching him play, which is something I usually can't find a way to do for a rival player. His energy brought something to the game. Would have liked to think that he would live happily ever after, but apparently that's not the way his story ends.

Well, you just don't understand us unempathetic jerks! We never meant to become so callous and hateful and cruel and nonunderstanding, it's simply what a complex mixture of events and circumstances brought upon us and you have no right to belittle us for it. If only the world could stop being so ignorant and understand why we're this way they would finally be able to realize that our actions are comprehensible and always good for society no matter what!

I agree with this. Respected his game. Seemed like a characteristic guy. But I have no tolerance for suicide. I don't care about your excuse or crutch. It's weak and it only hurts those who love you.

No offense, but you are an asshole on this subject. Go **** yourself. Or do society a favor and shoot yourself, you ****ing prick.

no offense?

telling someone they are an asshole about suicide, then telling them to go commit suicide?

dipshit.

Yeah, I meant offense. He's an asshole.

I get this. I kind of want to take the same attitude. Particularly in a couple of situations that hit closer to home where I saw the fallout and pain that it causes. But for whatever reason I always end up feeling more pity than anger. Maybe giving too much benefit of the doubt, but assuming that the person who offed themselves must have been in a personal hell I can't understand.

its a ghoulish topic, but a lot of people have academically studied suicide. Specifically, the aftermath for survivors.

One might think that if you have "failed" at suicide, then the underlying condition (depression or painful illness) continues, and you'll just try again, and indeed, some people do. There are definitely a few people who make the decision to die, and are determined to do so (usually painful illness).

Most people don't. This may be a bit disturbing to think about, but often when someone tries to overdose and wakes up, or pulls the trigger and hears a click, or jumps off a bridge and lives, many times they don't redouble their effort. They go back home (after recovery if necessary), go to bed, and go to their job the next morning. Most of them go on with their lives and never try to kill themselves again. Most survivors who jump off the golden gate bridge regret jumping as soon as they are in the air.

For those who are depressed, the thought of suicide is fleeting. Those who give in to that temptation are stupid, selfish, and weak-willed.

To anyone who thinks depression is a crutch, and discounts its severity: Consider yourself lucky. Speaking as someone who, while I don't have it myself, has been around it and its trail of devastation for decades now, I hope you never have reason to change your mind.

The lack of understanding about this stuff in this thread is.. well... not surprising.

...he thinks I'm an asshole, so it all evens out in the wash.