Big Ben started right away because of injuries. And I am basing my point on his 15 year career as a run first guy with a qb who manages games. The idea that cowher is a qb guy is tough to prove. Big Ben being drafted and being forced to start fell into his lap. Will he do that again? And will he change a philosophy that loves to run the ball. Who knows. It isn't a slam dunk. You don't think there isn't a similar scenario where cow her brings in a bettis like back and brings in Alex smith or Sanchez? That is much more consistent with his style.

He only found one, so it's unlikely that he knows how to find one.

Have a glass of champagne. It's on me.

LMAO

Do you really think Cowher, a LB, LB coach and DC, is going to rely on his own opinion to select a QB?

There will be a QB guru on staff who will advise Chin.

This is not Pioli 2.0.

I'm holding judgement, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't completely nervous. The next few weeks will either make or break me as a fan.

I don't want to read any more bullshit about QBs falling into laps. Complete and utter ****ing horse shit. Just like it will be if we draft Smith, he blows the **** up, and stupid ****ing Broncos fans come here to cry about him "falling into our lap."

Rodgers gave us a lap dance in '05 and we still wouldn't give him a dollar.

they don't draft a legitimate QB and immediately start him..then it's all moot.

I won't give even close to a damn unless that happens.

Everyone jizzed their shorts over Jim Zorn.

Why?

He was a QB guy. He'll fix everything.


You don't need a QB guy as the HC.

You need the right QB - and that requires good scouting, not a guy like Mike Holmgren who coached the position when Noah was loading the ark.

You are assuming that was cowhers pick to make. Or that cowher envisioned Ben as an ideal game manager, which is how I see it. Until I see compelling proof, I see cowher as a guy who wants a power running game and would settle for a game manager at qb.

The problem with Hunt bypassing the front office in hiring a coach is his lack of knowledge about football. I mean that is what a front office is for. If you are going to do it Clark's way, you need to do what San Diego did, and bring in a Ron Wolf as a hiring consultant.

In a sense, I don't think he is telling the truth about it being his baby -- he is either leaning on Pioli or he has all but fired Pioli and is leaning on someone like Marty.

Bypassing the front office for the most important decision they make without cleaning house makes no sense unless there is already a new shadow GM.

Again, if the rumor of Carl in KC recently is true...he could be advising Hunt.

Oh, wait. LMAO

If any potential head coach looks at this roster and doesn't see the need for a serious upgrade at quarterback he shouldn't even get an interview. Clark's own words stated that we need to upgrade the position.

The thing I just don't get about Pioli was his stubborness to move away from Cassel. Was his ego that big really?

I think he's not going the gamble, Ross, etc. route is because he did that with Pioli and isn't giving someone that much control again.

They are going to want to hire their own coach and be in charge.

Obviously, by what he said, Clark doesn't want that. He wants them to both report to him
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That's exactly what he's doing, IMO - along with a few others.

Our franchise is a god damned anomaly.

Carl knows The Chin quite well, of course.

What does everybody think the attendance will be at Arrowhead if he doesn't fire Pioli and bring in big name coach?

i'm ok with that...

QBs in the first half of the first are generally thought to have game-manager upside.

FFS, man. Are we just going to make up anything now?

Roethlisberger was viewed as a talented prospect. There were concerns about his transition due to system and quality of opponents, but the Steelers had the balls to draft him. It wasn't easy, I'm sure. It never is because of the damn near insurmountable amount of stupid ****ing fans who cry about the "risky nature" of drafting QBs.

to lose 14 games and earn the #1 pick - with the objectively worst roster of QBs in the league - and NOT draft a QB with the first pick is contempt...pure contempt for your fans

it also means you aren't serious about winning a superbowl, just papering things over to get fans back in the seats...

Clark has to a) fire pioli and b) draft a QB or this has been a total waste of time...

Clark grew up in the football business.

I think his lack of knowledge is wildly overstated
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Mike holmgren coached three hall of fame qbs. You aren't seriously going to build the case that cowher knows qbs better than holmgren. Holmgren didn't fall into favre. He fought the front office to keep him. He groomed steve young all the way from college. And he has coached three different styles of qbs in different eras. I get the age argument. But this guy is a hell of a lot more impressive than cowher.

bingo...the curtain has FINALLY been pulled back.

they are at the tipping point, IMO.

He wanted rivers.

If you have a son who simply hangs around your business, never really gets his hands dirty or pays extreme attention, would he have your level of expertise?

I don't know and honestly I don't care. This year I had the energy and anger for SOC. They **** this up, I will have no energy, desire, or passion left.

Posts #230 & 241

Should I trust some guy? I'd rather trust Gruden.

I'll be honest with you. I expect Pioli going away as an inevitable conclusion and I wouldn't be surprised if Clark was leaning on Ray Farmer, who might be his successor.

Nothing like pining for a guy that coached QB's back when Noah was loading the arc - and calling him a definitive upgrade over ANYONE.

Jesus Christ, you don't hire a HEAD COACH simply because he's experienced with QB's.

Ask Cleveland how that worked out.

Hell, ask Seattle how that worked out.

This. It's Black Monday + 1...realizing we are all Chiefs fans here and are desperate for big changes, I'm not willing to hit the panic button 2 days after the end of the regular season.

most accounts don't have him just "hanging around" most have him pegged as groomed for this.

If I was grooming my son I would teach him about it.
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Then we saw what Harbaugh saw...

The guy that loves every QB including Cassel, Tebow, and Alex Smith?

You think he's doing this alone?

Who exactly has Gruden developed?

Dude collected QB's like stamps, but I don't recall any of them being any good.

Hell, he's spent more time coaching WR's than QB's.

You're not listening. Cowher spent his entire career building around a power running game and a game manager qb. His offensive philosophy is to run first, throw conservative, then take a few big chances when the defense falls asleep.

Big Ben was a great value pick. Yeah, kudos to the steelers for making that pick. But you are making a wild leap in assuming cowher drafted Ben to lead the team versus being a perfect game manager. It is over simplistic to suggest that one pick at the end of his career suddenly makes him praise the gospel of franchise quarterback. Again, do you not see a scenario where his top guy would be Alex smith? Because Alex smith is a lot more like his prototypical qb than Geno smith is.

If he was shocked that Pioli and Haley had problems, he's clueless. Even casual football fans knew that.

No, in fact, that was my point is that it is not.

Clark Hunt said in an interview with KCTV 5 that there was a search committee to find the next coach. He put a timetable out there of a couple weeks. . . . I would be surprised if it was really a couple weeks and Clark was just giving them some padding. He made it sound like the search committee would have Pioli on it. He did not say this specifically, but it was in regards to a question about Pioli's role in the search

there's a difference.
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nobody in the NFL gives a single shit about SOC, if they even know what it is

Hunt wants his fan base to buy tickets, that's it


SOC?!?!

****ing please ... ROFL

That is a very odd analysis. Clark Hunt grew up in the center of the NFL universe his family part of the very fabric of the league. Clark Hunt is more connected than Ron Wolf will ever be and is engaged in discussions with other owners at a level few GM's are invited to witness. All he has to do is ask and there are a legion of consultants with the best NFL pedigree at his finger tips. Clark Hunt does not need Scott Pioli it is the other way around.

Clark Hunt trusts Marty Schottenhiemer and I hope he is making use of that relationship as Marty will give good advice.

The thought process for many with respect to Cowher is that this is someone who has seen and should understand the development of the league. Yes, he emphasized a power running game for the majority of his career. He also never won a SB until he acquired a franchise QB, and this should have been instructive.

I think Alex Smith is a possibility no matter what coach we bring in, but I also firmly believe that the Chiefs will draft a QB, too. It might not be 1/1, though, and this will cause an immediate meltdown. But I could see Smith plus a QB in round 2, with an open competition in camp.

I could see this as being more a possibility, actually, if Gruden is hired because he had a reputation of being an insufferable SOB with rookie QBs. Has this changed? No clue. But he hosts QB Camp, an ESPN construction, so people believe he has.

SOC is a joke

Not saying he's notan aagreeable cockstroker in the media, but do you really think he believes those things? Have you ever seen him publicly criticize someone?

And I feel no need to read the other 350 posts in this thread. This is the only answer.

Seattle made a super bowl, was in the playoffs every year but one, and won a playoff game virtually every year. Unless you're saying holmgren was responsible for nagging back injuries to hasselbeck which is what ultimately led to their downfall.

I don't care how it worked out in Cleveland. He failed as a gm in green bay too. And he wasn't on the field coaching qbs.

And the idea that holmgren is out of touch is ridiculous. Again, he coordinated for joe Montana. He coached steve young, a mobile qb. Then he coached Brett favre, a more big Ben like gunslinger. Then matt hasselbeck, a pure pocket qb. Three hall of famers. Hasselbeck was good too. And unlike big Ben, three of those guys were prospects nobody else saw potential in. I don't know what to say if cp is seriously trying to sell that cowher is a better guy for qbs than holmgren. Let me repeat. He coached three hall of fame qbs, with three different styles, in three different eras. If he can coach steve young, he sure as hell can coach Geno smith.

That's true, he does love everyone at every position. Still not really cool with finding out which ones he doesn't love and which ones he does. I think its pretty damn realistic that Gruden takes Alex Smith with him wherever he ends up.

WTF?

Where are the big QB eff ups in Seattle?

SB appearance w/Holmgren [w/one of the more suspect SB losses in history], way overperforming with a breakout rookie QB under Carroll.

You are telling me you'd rather have Clark Hunt select your head coach than Ron Wolf? Ok.

Dumb.

I am intrigued by gruden because of his obsession with the spread. And because he has stated the importance of a qb. I just haven't seen enough evidence that cow her would not prefer to build a suffocating defense first, a power running game as the centerpiece of the offense, and then a qb who can win games in that context. Do I see him as a guy who would ever go pass first? I don't see it.

I'm not saying he hasn't changed. But right now that's been his history.

The new GM will want a brain to pick, like Scott got from Herm. Romeo's "I don't know" wouldn't be much help

Rex Grossman appeared in a SB too.

Sorry, but Matt Hasselbeck isn't going to put anyone over the top for a 65 year old Mike Holmgren.

Um, Seattle had some success with Holmgren. The downfall was not replacing the older players and having a successor for Hasselbeck in place.

Why do you think that? What's the Alex smith connection I'm missing.

I think it's likely he doesn't criticize b/c he planned on returning to coaching, and didn’t want to bad mouth someone who might wind up as one of his players...

While I agree that no one ultimately gives a shit, only a fool would think they don't know what SOC is, and haven't heard about the things that have been done.

Gruden loves trash qbs.

Pertaining to the thread...as of now, I'd say we have been mislead a tad or Clark is sending smoke for tactical reasons. Koetter, Ferentz, and Armstrong all reek of Pioli being involved which is not in tune with what Clark said on the radio.

At this point, I have no idea of what is happening. Either he is doing a great job of misdirection or he is about to give us fans the finger! I would feel better if a Reid, Cowher or Gruden visit was scheduled or announced. Pretty nervous times for me as if Pioli returns, I'm pretty much done with the team.

SOC isn't a concern for any real NFL stud worth his whistle.

The only reason it existed was because a passionate fanbase encountered legendary incompetence.

Some success.

Great.

And what was the downfall again? Not having a successor for an already non-elite QB?

Like I said, Rex Grossman appeared in a SB.

Marc Bulger put up numbers.

That doesn't make them great QB's.

Someone trying to sell me on a 65 year old Mike Holmgren - who was an absolute failure in Cleveland - using Matt Hasselbeck as some sort of evidence?

Awesome.

**** it, he coached Brett Favre and Steve Young.

So did Steve Mariucci, and I don't see anyone sucking his dick.

I am always skeptical when it comes to the Chiefs but I totally agree with what Reaper said in post #34.

I will add that if Clark is lying he certainly deserves an Oscar for that performance yesterday.

Nope, not what I said at all. I was responding to your comment about Clark Hunts lack of football knowledge and not using a consultant. I was saying Clark Hunt has consultants and knows more about football then you will ever know.

He likes smart QB's.

Look at the QB's he had in TB. Add to that what I have heard him say and felt he really meant. I don't see any reason to think the guy is going to come out and groom a young QB.

Maybe.

He loves 3 yard passes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...g_quarterbacks

2002-2008.

99% of QB's are smart, it's a prerequisite for the position.

A much lower percentage are smart AND talented.

Ryan Fitzpatrick graduated from Harvard.

I sure as **** don't want him as my QB.

That's an improper question.

The proper question would be: does he have enough expertise to DO THE JOB.

See, this is whole line of reasoning dovetails with the 'draft a QB, any QB, and if he sucks draft another' line of thinking that simply drives me crazy.

I can understand pining for great QB play in light of the HORRIBLE QB play we've endured but just as 'not as bad =! good' is apt, so too is 'the only alternative to horrible is spectacular' inapt.

We don't need a QB who throws 50x a game for 400+ yards every time out. We need one who doesn't make mistakes and makes clutch plays when needed. As much as the league has favored the passing game, and franchise QBs dominate the SB champ ranks, they're still not pass, pass, pass and ignore the rest of the team rosters. All the franchise QBs have gone through their game manager eras. Those like Eli, Ben, even going back to Elway have traits of stinking for 3/4 then turning it on in the crunch. Others like Aikman game managed throughout. All won with their defenses playing at their peak.

This is a knock on singlemindedness more than anything else.

Marty's advice earlier this season was for Clark to be patient and stick with Romeo and Fat Scott.

Where is this "good advice" you speak of?

No thanks to Holmgren too.

Add Gruden to the no list as well.

You want a QB friendly HC that has HC experience, Bruce Arians should be the #1 pick of Clark.

Honestly, I was the first to criticize Gruden's apparent man love for Matt Cassel earlier this season. It didn't make any sense. Then I realized he never criticizes anyone. Like ever. So I changed my tune on him.

If you've ever seen the guy coach, and how he leads his players, it's very hard not to like Gruden.

Jfc. You've gone off the rails. Holmgren coached young at BYU and for most of his career. Holmgren made young. Holmgren rejected qb trades because he stuck by Brett favre. Look, you're a smart guy but you trying to discredit holmgrens qb accomplishments is borderline idiotic. Let me repeat. He coached two hall of fame qbs who were both considered nobodies in the draft.

And your criticism of his run in Seattle is comical. He left the game around the same time as cowher. They met in the same super bowl and Seattle played terrific in that super bowl. Seattle was a very successful playoff team almost every year holmgren was coach. His record is more impressive than cowhers. He took two teams he built from scratch to a super bowl. He coordinated the super power 49ers. He's coached three hall of fame qbs. He's developed two of them.

He isn't a good gm. So what. He wasnt on the field coaching players, was he.

ROFL

Cowher lucked out at the Ferrari dealership, Gruden willingly kept going back to the Buy Here - Pay Here lot.

This.

As the Great One has said many times, "Don't listen to what they say, but watch what they do."

Good perceptive read Rexx !!

His passion isn't my real concern. Especially if Clark is going to give him player control, that is my concern. I also don't see how his QB history should make me comfortable.

What does Fitzpatricks Alma mater have to do with how well he understands the game?