We're talking mid-late picks for the most part. That's the NBA draft. Patterson was also a serviceable player who brought picks (via t-rob) and Garcia to Houston.

13-14

PG- Lin (25), Beverley (25)
SG- Harden (24), Garcia, Canaan (rookie)
SF- Parsons (25), Casspi (bleh)
PF- Jones (22), Motiejunas (23), Greg Smith (23)
C- Howard (28), Asik (27)

That's a damn good team that's still young and ascending. They have room to bring in one more player (wing defender or shooter) at just over 2 million. If they need a 4 next year because someone doesn't step up.... Goodbye Asik.

This team won 45 games last year with all of these young guys playing big minutes. Can't say the same about Cleveland's young ones

But hey... Maybe it was all Carlos Delfino

If they can trade Asik or Lin for Anderson from NO, I think that could be a HUGE get for them.

I'm not going to get into comparisons with Cleveland. It's silly to even compare the two teams given that one team has plunged into superstars, and the other has relied exclusively on the draft. I don't know what the Cavs' fate will be, but that's a conversation for 2 years from now.

The Rockets are winning games because they made a big free agent splash last year. Morley has proven he has the stones to land some really big fish. Credit him for that. But so has Brooklyn. Much as you talk about the bright future prospects of these young guys, let's be real here. Their organic talent is very, very average at best.

The only reason Houston is winning is because they are spending a lot of money. The reason they managed to avoid some cap issues is that they exploited a short-term loophole in the CBA to poison pill Lin and Asik's contract. That doesn't mean the team was built on a good strategy. It's basically a strategy of stockpiling expensive talent and hoping your average drafts are going to be good enough to support your expensive players.

Zilla keeps proving that he is a ****ing idiot.

Give me a break. The Rockets walked into last year's preseason an absolute nightmare. You take Harden off that team (pre-Howard) and the team is unbelievably mediocre.

The Rockets didn't have a strategy. Once their preseason mix looked like a disaster, they gave up the moon, sun, and stars to get Harden. They're doing the same with Howard. In a superstar-driven league, it might lead to some playoff wins. But sorry, I'll save the kudos for teams like OKC and Indiana that are doing it organically. Hell, even the Heat success can be largely attributed to an incredible strategy in getting perfect role players on the cheap that fit a specific purpose.

Throwing money and picks around shows aggressiveness and it's ballsy. But I'll save Houston kudos until we see what they can do on the cheap with the support players. Right now, way too much credit is being given for a very, very mediocre at best group.

Jesus, you're a dumbshit. The only way teams can build through the draft is by tanking for 2-3 years in a row. Name me a team built on picks outside the lottery or even late lottery. The rockets have been above-average from where they have been picking. Once again, much like when you proposed a trade down from no. 1, you are showing that you don't understand the NBA draft.

Yes, the team would have been below-average to mediocre without Harden, but because they are the supporting ****ing cast. I'd take their 3-13 guys over many other team's 3-13

I'm not too familiar with him, but I'm not in love with the idea. Rather wait and see what might be available later.

this is exactly why I am mad about the Sixers lol

It's a tough process. I'm going through it with the Astros... Though at least I have minor league players to follow

1. The 1.1 trade-down was a viable option and the Cavs didn't take it. Grant took shit for that.

2. The team got Harden in October. So far, their team is built like the Knicks, not the Spurs or Pacers. Their success is built on superstars who can hold the ball and thrive regardless of supporting cast. Until the supporting cast steps up, that's the perception. Parsons is the only in that group that has over many games. The rest are pure upside guys.

3. For the record... when you talk about 3 - 13, I am assuming you are talking about a neutered Asik and Lin because they don't mesh well with Howard and Harden in the lineup. It is a much more so-so cast than you are crediting them for. And teams like Chicago, San Antonio, and Indiana have done way better with much worse draft picks to work with

Credit Morley for having the stones and presence of mind to adjust and admit mistakes frequently. I'm sure that now that he has his Big 2, he may re-consider the scheme and the kind of role players he wants to fill in (again, credit him for building the cap flexibility to do that). But as of right now, the team has been built on a scattershot approach with overpaid free agents and middling role players. And even the two superstars the team is built around have some question marks of their own.

Bullshit. The Knicks are/were old with has-been/nobody FA signings. Rockets were the second youngest team in the league last year. That wont change much next year. Lin just had his first full season coming off injury and had a decent regular season--especially the second half. Lin is capable of scoring in bunches when Parsons is having an off night. He's working hard, and understands his role. This team was young, had tons of points AND turnovers, but are getting more and more experience.

Asik can be traded at any time if he doesn't mesh with Howard.

And I don't want them to be built like the Pacers. Harden-Howard > George-Hibbert

And the Rockets role players destroy theirs

no they dont

Stephenson, Copeland, Hill, Granger, etc > Parsons, Lin, Asik

That's fine. I'm not a fan of any of them. Especially Stephenson and Copeland. Maybe my Rockets homerism is showing, but I guess I can't help but be excited.

David West is also better than any role player on the Rockets. You definitely have the better 1-2 by far though.

No no no. David West was an example of Indiana just throwing money at Free Agents. He must suck.

You should be. I don't like that teams can be built this way. But they can be. One of the things I don't like about the nba.

I think the road was rocky to get there. And right now it looks like a mish mosh of talent. Now that they know their big two, I'm sure their strategy can now revolve around building around them and cutting out those who don't . Which means scheme and knowing their role players. I guess it's the basketball purist that prefers teams be built around a scheme versus stacking the deck and then force fitting some scheme. Regardless, they kind of lucked into two huge superstars who actually complement each other nicely.

Go home Zilla, you're drunk.

After listing to Screamin' A's take this morning, and having Howard tell him that if Phil was the coach, he'd still be a Laker, I don't know how Jim Buss looks his siblings in the eyes or how they don't remove him from all power within the organization.

Hell, give all the power to Kupchak, I don't care, but that homeless looking mother ****er makes Scott Pioli look like he's Ozzie Newsome.

They did luck into it, but they were building for the future even before Harden. Young FAs and 3 first rounders to go with Parsons.... Probably would have had future lottery picks and Toronto's pick this year. This wasn't a team shooting for mediocrity. They were building with young guys.

this was mediocrity

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/2011.html

they got rid of that entire roster in 3 years. THREE. That's a pretty good turnaround and upgrade if you ask me.

So as Yao's career ended they blew up the entire cast that would have been around him, as they had no chance without him. Took them three years and you can say they landed ass backwards into Dwight after he turned them down a year ago, but they stuck with it and kept trying and did just enough (Harden) to convince him that was a better option than the Lakers.

The butthurt is strong in this thread

Bynum scheduled to be in Cleveland today...

lol:

I cant picture it, but imagine if that team fails to meet expectations because of their rookie almost player coach.

I don't think either of us is wrong though I've been talked down to agree that the rockets did a lot more right than I gave credit for. Rudy is right to be excited. I have a preference for a solid team with a good scheme and coach. I get that Houstons approach works in the nba. I just prefer a different route. I thought stacking the deck with asik and lin in mchales system was odd. Rudy is right that even if that was a mistake, the Howard Harden combo should work nicely. So at least they corrected with low cap consequence.

Metta World Peace is being amnestied by the Lakers.

I think they're going to let D'Antoni coach this last throw away year and then fire him a the end of the season.

I still don't understand the hire. If you're going to go to win now mode, why would you hire a coach with literally no coaching experience and just got done playing?

I think McHale is an atrocious coach, who will never get the Rockets where they need to go. That's going to be their biggest issue.

FYP


I knew that if Phil was the coach he probably would have stayed. DdumbassAntoni is an abortion

The Rockets should be sucking Phil Jackson's dick to get him to coach the Rockets

He's not coaching anywhere other than LA if he does ever coach again.

Ya I know. But I bet Houston would be tempting if they paid him and gave him what he wants.

No way, Man.

He's not going to mess up his relationship with Jeanie, just to get yet another ring.

What needs to happen is that Jim Buss is fired and replaced with Phil.

I agree. It was just my opinion. Never say never lol

I still can't believe Buss ****ed the coaching fiasco up and hired D'Antoni

He's a moron. I can't believe that the family signed off on him running the show (and they can't, either).

Zilla, I took the time to go back and look at the Rocket's draft picks since 2006 instead of just going on memory. I'm not sure why the hate. The highest pick they've had was #8, and they traded it for 5 years of useful Shane Battier. The next highest pick was 12, Jeremy Lamb, who still has a very good chance to be a good NBA player. Beyond that, they've hit on some legit NBA players in Aaron Brooks, Novak, Budinger, Carl Landry, Scola (in trade from Spurs), Batum (who they traded but should have kept), Patrick Patterson, Marcus Morris, Parsons and Terrence Jones. No real superstars, but very good judge of NBA talent. I also like their pick this year, Canaan. On top of that, he brought in Patrick Beverly off the scrap heap who appears to be a nice backup PG.

100x this.

I think the picks have been okay. Not great, not terrible (over the past 5 years). But you're right, not bad either. I'm mostly critical of the mish-mosh of players and constant roster churn, and picking up players without any care for how they fit in a scheme. I'm not crazy about McHale. And I think they made a big mistake in getting Lin and coupling him with Asik. I'm not crazy about the strategy, but I guess there's a good chance it works and I like that people have talked me into agreeing that they did a good job of making sure these weren't cap killer mistakes.

I don't think that you understand what Morey was doing.

He knew that he wasn't winning without superstars, so he collected assets. He then pooled those assets to trade for the superstars you can't get if you are drafting outside the top 3-5 in the draft.

It's precisely the opposite of what the Chiefs do.

Retrospectively, yes, that's what he did. But he was ready to walk into 2012 with Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik as his two foundational superstars. He overpaid for both of these guys. Nevermind that Lin doesn't fit McHale's system, and Asik is a terrible option for pick and roll (Lin's forte`). because he's clumsy with the ball.

It's curious that the trade happened after Lin was an absolute disaster in the 2012 preseason. Lin and Harden are very similar players who don't belong on the court together. So the question of the hour is, if Lin had a strong 2012 preseason, would Morey have made the trade for Harden? Or... given the timing of the trade and how much Houston gave up, was it a reactionary move?

Bill Simmons, who is friends with Morey, spoke again and again of Morey acquiring assets throughout all of 2011 and 2012. This isn't revisionist history; this is somewhat formulating a plan and executing it.

And Houston gave up nothing for Harden. You don't avoid picking up All-Stars for Jeremy Lin. If Lin would have scored 35 PPG in the preseason Morey still would have traded for him...because...wait for it...he wants assets.

Fair enough. I guess given the nba, it's a good strategy. I prefer ready, aim, fire vs ready, fire, aim but get that in a superstar driven league like the nba, you have to do that.

Not to mention Morey is a huge in analyticals. Zilla is just being a ****ing idiot which par the course.

SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter 7m

DEVELOPING: Andrew Bynum's two-year-offer from the Cavs is worth $12 million annually, @ESPNSteinLine reports.

Irving-Waiters-Clark-Bennett-Bynum
Jack-Karasev-Gee-Thompson-Varejao

Cavaliers are suddenly pretty damn stacked. Varejao is pretty good, then you add six first round picks the last three years(2#1's and 2#4 overalls) then sign Jack, Earl Clark, and Bynum... Pretty good on paper all the sudden. And real young.

yea if they're healthy. Their two bigs are coming off injury seasons and one guy didnt even play and who knows when hes going to.

I was pretty worried about losing Pek to a team like Dallas who would throw a ton of money that we didn't have at him. Now I'm kind of questioning this move by the Wolves if that contract offer is accurate. It's definitely a sign that the Wolves are desperate to keep Pek (which they should be) but they perhaps blew their load too soon.

Ah well. It's nothing too terrible or crippling, really.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ey...nikola-pekovic

I've grown to agree on the draft strategy. Poo poo on that, fine.

But people are treating him like some kind of a mastermind. As of right now, he has a coach who struggles to figure out how to use his talent. And he has two expensive acquisitions in Lin and Asik who were a terrible fit for the team and system. If he's heavy on analytics, then pre-Harden, why did he have such a mish-mosh of players and coaches who don't work together?

The Harden trade was brilliant. The Howard move worked because they threw a lot of money at them. With the superstars in place, we'll see if a good system follows. Until that system forms, it is purely a strategy of stacking with assets with no vision for how those assets work together.

Thats a pretty decent team. Should contend for the 6th or 7th seed in the East if they all stay relatively healthy.

Chris Grant has built a solid foundation for a team. They're still a legit scoring threat away from being a true contender. And we still have to remind ourselves that they're going to be coached by Mike Brown. We can only hope that the new offensive assistant he hired will be allowed to call the offensive shots.

His focus on analytics is why he identified many of the gems he did. But that doesn't mean that you can win with players that give you surplus value in the latter half of the first round.

Everyone knows how to win in the NBA and there are usually two ways to do it: sign elite players in free agency and draft generational talents. But to get the first you often need the second. And when you have the opportunity to draft the second you have to be lucky.

Morey was able to successfully build a real contender while never having a chance to draft a generational talent. That's pretty amazing.

He acquired a bunch of quarters for dime prices, then traded those quarters for a dollar. And in the NBA, a dollar bill is worth more than four quarters.

Yeah, I'm buying into what you're saying about what he's done with the dime priced talent.

But what about the $8M dollar players who played at dime levels? I'll agree with you on the draft, but Lin and Asik was a "shiny object" strategy. And maybe McHale is better than I give him credit for, but I don't think he's very good either.

I'm not going to argue McHale is a great coach, but I was impressed how well he used the talent he had. He put the ball in Harden and Lin's hands and let them create in isolation. A lot of people on this board hated the offense, because against elite defense it was definitely stagnant. But he played to his team's strengths. They had no post scoring, but they had two guys who could break the D down off the dribble and several perimeter shooters. And Asik is an elite screen guy, which is an undersold talent on offense.

Bennett should be a good scoring threat to go with Irving and Waiters. Karasev should be the best shooter on the team too.

I didn't get the Asik signing. You pay $8M per year for a guy who is terrible in pick and roll, and you bring him in to complement Lin... who is a pick and roll guy who loves to dish to his Center. I still don't like the combo of Lin and Harden -- like Melo and Stoudemire, to get production out of one, you have to neuter the other because they take up the same space.

If the Rockets wipe their hands clean of Asik and Lin, maybe you've got something. Right now, in Lin and Asik, you're paying $16M for two guys who I still think were shiny objects vs. being part of some kind of a long-term strategy. McHale did make it work a little bit with Harden and Lin, but let's be real... they don't belong on the floor with each other, and Asik doesn't belong on the floor with those guys either.

Asik wants no part of the Rockets. They have to trade him IMO.

I think you're way off on Asik. He's not accomplished offensively, but he does everything else well. Great rebounder, very good defender, very good screener. He's not a great roll guy, but just allowing Harden and Lin to rub their guy and turn the corner into the lane was half the Rockets offense.

Lin and Harden aren't a great fit, but again, Morey didn't know he was getting Harden when he signed Lin.

what's wrong with signing place holders in the NBA?

Lin and Asik literally are keeping a seat warm, but at the same time they were more than enough to draw crowds in the last year, especially Lin. Asik is not some scrub either

you are talking about Rocket fans who had Louis Scola and Samuel Dalembert and other clowns before they signed Asik, people wanted to see a center with potential and a PG that covers their overseas market like Yao did. They generated money for that team last year in a city that has no business doing that in the NBA, so hats of to them for adopting a model to compete with the Miami Heat, Lakers, Knicks who just throw money around like it's candy corn

Perhaps, but he's getting paid by the Rockets. What's he going to do, sit out and not get a check? He was a backup for the Bulls and still got paid because teams understand he's valuable regardless. They'll try to convince him it doesn't really hurt his long-term value if he's getting 25 minutes behind (or beside) Howard instead of the 30 he averaged this season.

I kinda like what they did - no messing around.

Why do you keep dumping on the Asik signing? It was brilliant.

When Morey signed Lin, he shouldn't have signed Asik. It was as bad as thinking Nash and Howard would have chemistry together. Lin thrives on pick and roll. Asik is horrible at pick and roll because he has clumsy hands and is no threat outside of the very low post to shoot. Asik's a good player in a specific scheme, but not this one.

Which is why I'm again talking about how sometimes Morey's strategy has been to sort of throw a bunch of players together without any thought about how they'd work together. Can we just admit that Lin and Asik was a failed experiment?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-wecRyKrNgc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

lol ****ing Ice Cube

It sure would be nice to give Rose some help. I've been saying this for years now but the front office doesn't hear me. I said it sure would be nice to give Rose some REAL help!

This. Maybe not brilliant, but it was a damn good signing. Zilla has made some terrible points. I'm hoping a team gets desperate for him at some point next season.

I like Asik. Not sure how valuable he'll be with Howard though. Lin was the only shit signing, and it has nothing to do with not knowing you are getting Harden. Hes simply not worth the money. That was all about keeping the China market. I really dont think they are a serious contender without moving Asik and/or Lin. Even if they do Howard will find a reason to be unhappy in 6 months.

Asik is still a very valuable asset. The Rockets could easily trade him for a stretch 4 that would fit that team immensely well.

Asik for a Ryan Anderson type (probably through a three way trade) is very doable.

Asik for Jeff Green straight up is another possible trade.

With the contract they gave Asik, they could have easily in the past 2 years paid that same kind of money for a stretch 4.

This team needs assets who can pick and roll. Harden, Lin, and McHale thrive on it. Asik is NOT good at pick and roll. And guess what... Howard hates the pick and roll too. Because he's a terrible shooter and he belongs in the post. And there are rumors that he not only bitched about it in LA, but refused at times to run it. Has anyone even thought about that?

The team is stacking players with no thought to how they work together. Howard doesn't belong in a pick and roll offense, nor does Asik. And if you take away the pick and roll, you limit a lot of what Harden can do. So what offense will they run?

The Rockets were advised not to trade for Howard because the word around Orlando was that Howard would never sign an extension there. Asik was a good plan B and it's all going to work out... especially if Lin ups his 3-point game like I expect him to.

How many true centers are great pick and roll players these days? A handful? What other young centers were available? Asik is still an elite rebounder and defender.

I'm not sure what stretch 4s were available, but the Rockets traded two of them because of the expectations for Jones and Motiejunas.

No, I am talking about people who are defending these moves to the ends of the earth.

Fact, the Rockets paid $8M per year for an overpriced point guard and a Center who did NOT mesh with the offense they wanted to run. In fact, he's a terrible fit for the offense because not only can he not shoot, he also can't catch the ball.

And yeah, we have to closely monitor how Howard fits into this picture. He hates pick and roll. Not just hates it, but openly despises it. And yet you have a coach and a star player who thrive on it. Put t his under "wait and see" but it's a legitimate question that of course people will call me an idiot for asking.

Weren't Howard and Nelson great at the pick and roll?

That's true, as long as they play less of pick and pop. Again, I'm not judging the Howard pickup until I see what they do with him. I still don't get the asik pickup even if he is a good player.

Fair enough. I'm done arguing it. Should be interesting either way.

if they get Bynum, and can get 70+ games out of him and Kyrie, that's a playoff team, and might be one of the deepest teams in all the league. Only ones I can think of that are deeper are the clippers, and Indiana.

Do they only play basketball on one end of the court? They needed a defensive minded big to make up for the types of perimeter players they wanted to put on the floor (not to mention those specific perimeter players aren't particularly good shooters).

Asik is ok in p&r, because he gets Harden and Lin free with his picks. He's not going to do anything on a roll to the bucket, but that's fine. Those guys can either finish in the lane or kick to a shooter. Asik can crash for the offensive board.

I am going to defend the Asik signing, because I think you're wrong. Lin? Eh, I get why they did it, but not a great decision so far.

I think what a lot of people are missing, is that a lot of the attitude problem Howard has was with the coaches. He thought he knew more. There is no way in hell he can think he knows more about playing the big position than his head coach now, or the guy they have helping him this summer in Hakeem. He will be fine.

It will be all about health. Irving and Bynum could lead them deep into the playoffs (GSW 2.0 - Curry and Bogut), or they could miss the playoffs altogether.