Not happy after a game about losing and a shit season and lineman not always helping him up = "Piss poor attitude"

Got it man LMAO

Let me guess? The next Vince Young, right?

Figured this would be a good place for this.

Remember Avery's catch where he kinda stumbled and went down? Look at this picture:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BbtmP7_CAAABCm2.jpg:large

Avery's hands have betrayed him so many times that he refused to reach for the ball there. He's no longer willing to hand-catch a pass because he doesn't trust himself to actually secure it. Instead he turned, took a bad step and cradled it into his mid-section. In so doing, he just fell the hell down and cost us a HUGE YAC play.

This is a display in how a QB can set up a WR extremely well for YAC yards and how a WR can give/take those yards. Smith put that ball in a perfect spot for Avery to reach out and grab it in stride, make a cut upfield (which was clearly the design given the downfield blocker) and perhaps take that thing all the way across the field for a score as Avery has outstanding jets.

Sometimes blaming the WRs or the O-Line really is appropriate.

Think about it. Crucified in SF, and then resurrected in KC.

Alex = Jesus

Evidence? Like what can be gathered by watching football games instead of quoting selected stats from PFF?


I have all the evidence I need. So do 95% of the long term members of this board.

And it has nothing to do with annoying 49ers fans.

You should probably create the "Donnie Avery did, does, and will always suck" thread for this.

I guess this is the part i don't get, those guys - including myself to a large extent, his name did nothing for me - we're simply eventually swayed by what he's been able to accomplish.

Throw out the stats for a moment, even his good ones... the quarterback gets most of the credit for losses and wins both in this game, so when a guy comes onto a historically bad 2-14 franchise and manages to turn them into a playoff team in just one season, that's worth a lot of credit to many of us.

Did the defense carry the load early on, theres no question about it, but if Alex was out there slapdicking it up, even that defensive performance would have been for naught, you know as well as i that the QB makes or breaks modern teams, to be where we are he had to have been an excellent, steady decision maker and leader, someone the guys were confident in rallying around.

Its just seems like enough credit isn't given to what he's done here, its all been mentioned a thousand times before, but in brief... seventh offensive system in eight years, brand new team and brand new coach to gel with... those are three major obstacles to any kind of efficiency at a position that requires extreme precision.

Perosnally, i went into this year demanding playoffs, so i'm content there... but now that he's heating up, i'm starting to expect atleast one win like yourself... though i wont be irate if we don't because we've made such a huge leap in a short time.

Lets just cross our fingers and hope for atleast one playoff win and then we'll all be satisfied with 2013.

Asking Chiefsplanet if Alex Smith is a franchise QB is pointless for the very definition starts with the QB being a first round pick by the Chiefs and would be extremely iffy if not a top ten pick. Therefore by this definition alone, no, Alex is not a franchise QB. Just a journeyman scrub. A

You don't really believe this do you?

No new fans!!!

Did you honestly think, at this point in the season, the Chiefs would be 11-3?

Honestly?

I can honestly say that I was not expecting a 11-3 at this point.

I don't understand how people can watch Eli Manning throw 5 picks, Matt Stafford go full reerun for 3 weeks and Josh McCown outplay Jay Cutler and still think that gunslinger is the only acceptable way to play QB or that Alex Smith's ability to protect the football isn't a legitimate skill.

This team isn't 11-3 with Matt Stafford at QB. He wouldn't have won us any of the games we lost and he'd have absolutely lost us the Buffalo and Dallas games at least. Flip the QBs in the Giants game and you flip the outcomes.

In a league where half the QBs are going out there and appear to be actively sabotoging their teams chance to win, how can people not appreciate Smith's steady play?

I'm pretty sure that's where most of his doubters have set the bar.

I am pretty happy for damn sure. And yea I predicted we would win more games than SF so I had high expectations though I figured 11 wins or so was the max.

I basically meant even if we win a playoff game there will still be plenty of wounded vaginas here when it comes to Smith.

This team is good enough to beat anyone IMO.
I wont be satisfied with anything other than a championship but after 2-14, 1 PO win I and will feel like this has been a successful season.

I do not believe that the Smith detractors will back off of Smith after only 1 PO win no matter how he plays they will say he is not good enough to win us a title.

To go on is pointless If you like his attitude then good for you. I don't that's just how I fell

Now go on telling us how Woody Johnson who trade for Tim tebow "gets it"

Romo audibling out of a run play to throw a pick at the end of the game this week when they were up. He actually had 2 really bad picks in the 2nd half of that game.

Agreed on everything, i think i'll just quit posting and give all of your stuff a THIS.

Why not let bygones be bygones? :shrug:

Well I know that beginning the season, the Chiefs wouldn't be 2-14 again, so I was 100% confident on that.

The question I was concerned was how quickly can the offense gel during the first 9 weeks, combined with how far our defense could carry this team, until the offense starts to click.

I think I probably had this team pegged between 6-10 to 8-8 at best because of the major questions on offense at the time.

You would think that after last season people would understand how not giving the ball away is something that a team greatly needs

Did anyone see the throw Romo made? It was way behind the receiver, right into the defensive back.

Had Romo lead it in front of his receiver, not behind, he probably wouldn't get crucified.

But still, the defense gave up a 23 point lead, combined with MAJOR questionable playcalling by Bill Callahan. Murray was having a good game, and he was largely ignored in the 4th quarter. Murray carried only seven times in the second half after gaining 93 yards and a touchdown in the first half....

Turnovers is actually the most reliable number in the box score that can be looked at to determine who won the game.

This is a Fact.

You mean it's not YPC or YAC yards? o:-)

You've already shown you are a typical dumbass fan that has 0 patience in developing a young QB with your RG3 comments. You obviously don't get it.

Yep, Martyball #101. It's a proven to work great in the regualar season.

Beasley ran the wrong route.

I think he's talking about the first one.

IMO, the first one was worse. If he leads Austin, it's a TD.

2012: -24 turnover differential-----2-14
2013: +21 turnover differential-----11-3 (so far)

Do you really not understand the difference in a QB developing and attitude? REALLY? WOW.

Find me one post i made saying RGIII sucks. I just said I think he has a poor attitude 2 different things.

Because some people want to see big time plays, down field passing, etc, etc. I call in this post in question.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...ostcount=10378

The person in question states that:

And you, correctly, called out his bullshit because he was LARGELY IGNORING the fact that Smith was completing 47% of those, which is 2nd on that list, as you mentioned, on this post.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...ostcount=10394

I would also note, how many INT's has Smith have on the deep passes?

Zero.

How many does Flacco have?

Six.

How many does Wanna be God-like players in Manning and Brady have?

Manning, five. Brady, four.

The fact, to me, is Alex Smith is a major improvement over Matt Cassel/Brady Quinn by day and night, because the fact is, Smith is not putting his team in a bad spot over, and over, and over, and over, as we always have accustomed to seeing it, last year.

Possibly, but it appears it was an option route, Beasley read the bracket and turned it into a stop route to pick up the first rather than continue with the out right into the bracketing DB.

It's hard to say for certain, but Beasley may have run it right and Romo read it wrong.

Has Beasley, Romo, or Garrett ever stated that he ran the wrong route?

It is true for ALL games. Regardless of gameplan.

Because that's going to happen. It's always commonplace to hear a QB and HC throw a 4th string WR under the bus.

Bad teams turn the ball over. That's just a fact. You don't get those freebies come playoff time so expecting another team to go out and beat themselves is less likley. That was always where MartyBall failed.

It's been that way all year. Shit backups were underthrowing open receivers that Cooper was picking off where Rivers and Manning where putting the ball on the money and toasting the defense.

And you absolutely will not win if you go out and beat yourself by turning the ball over.
The fact that you are arguing against a rock solid fact is telling.

But again - that was a very easy read for Beasley. A 4th string WR in that situation really does just have one thing to watch for and if he sees it, he alters the route.

Romo has 100 different things to look for, reads to make all over, protections to spot. It isn't unreasonable to believe that in this instance Beasley did see something that Romo didn't.

And oftentimes said 4th string WR will step in front of the bus if he screwed up. It's how you ingratiate yourself to your coach and QB in that situation.

Depends on how you look at it, the second pick was a run play and Romo called an audible. At least thats what they are reporting.

I agree, but you can't go out and wait for a team to beat themselves in the playoffs. That's where Marty failed, but on the other hand you can't be reckless(Haley) either. I think Andy Reid is probably that happy medium that can be agressive and try to win the game rather than to not lose it(Marty/Herm) which is why I think we can actually make some noise in the playoffs.

My point being a team is going to have to create turnovers in the playoffs, they are less likely to be gifted by a shitty QB.

And the conversation is not about expecting the other team to give the game away. Its about OUR QB not giving the game away. Which he doesnt.

Do you even know what you think anymore? You think we can make noise, I have to assume that means win, in the playoffs yet you still want to bitch about our QB?

Long time 49er fan here. Didn't get to see much of the game against Oakland, but from what I heard, Alex just set Chiefs Planet on its collective ear.

Nice to know he can light it up heading into the playoffs, isn't it? I think Jim Harbaugh, and now Andy Reid, have been a Godsend to this much-maligned QB.

If the 49ers face the Chiefs in the Super Bowl, I don't know what I'm going to do. I will be a perplexing time for many in 49er uniforms.

:facepalm:

Winning that would be poetic ****ing justice for Alex. :D

You're thinking of the first one, when they were ahead

Sure. There is enough talent on defense and with Charles playing like an MVP anything is possible.

I said I'm in holding pattern regarding Alex. We play 2 good teams and then have a playoff game. We'll see how he is in those games and then I'll jump to one side of the fence or the other. I'd feel better if we could beat a team over 500 and I don't count the Eagles because that was Pre-Noles.

LMAO Clay?

It really wasnt this game. It has been his play the last 5-6 weeks that has peope like me very high on him. He is playing like a top tier guy who can get the job done. This game wasnt some kind of coming out party the guy has played solid football for well over a month.

Right and we've had QB's that didn't give the game away during the reg season. Only Joe was able to not give it away and also got out and win a game.

I could care less about yards except they exist as a function hopefully leading to a score. If Alex had less than 200 yards but made money plays on 3rd down and key plays to keep drives alive that's more important to me- making critical plays. So, maybe he gets us down to inside the 5 and Charles or Davis rush it in? He could have pedestrian numbers that wouldn't illustrate his play simply from a stat sheet.

No different than during our 1st part of the season he and the offense depended on the Defense and Special Teams to do a lot of the heavy sledding to get us to 9-0. Every game is going to be different from a proportional perspective in terms of helping or hurting our teams ability to win.

I will say this, there have definitely been games where his play hasn't done a whole lot to contribute to the team winning, but on the other hand I can't name 1 game where I would say he's had a negative impact as to why we lost- like you could clearly point out with Cassel last year, for example.

He's had mediocre games, but his only game that we've lost that I would say he played poorly in was at Denver.

Gettin all those bases covered huh?

This is not a Martyball team...

No kidding. That's what kind of scares me.

Nah, I just don't get giddy like a school girl with out QB over some success over shitty teams like some do.

Andy Reid does not play Marty ball so Im not sure what your point is.

No, Bill

Similar, but Marty never had a weapon in KC like Jamal that can break things open in the short passing game and on the ground.

Smith could lose a playoff game and convince me he IS good enough to win a title. (See: something like the San Diego game)

Smith could also win a playoff game and reinforce concerns about his ability to get enough done against elite teams to win a title. (see any of the games between Giants and Chargers games)

The team having a successful season isn't tied to Alex Smith being successful as the long-term, franchise QB for KC. Just like me enjoying the season as a fan isn't tied to believing Smith is the long-term answer.

Yeah havIng a little faith in a guy who is playing at high level makes people giddy like a school girl.

Every post you have made for as long as I can remember point to someone who Expects Smith to Fail.

Good post.

Re: the bolded, we have quite a lot of local/in our face evidence that the formula we saw before the bye week is not a formula that leads to postseason success very often in the modern NFL (and really "NEVER" without an all-time great defensive unit)

Yes, I'm skeptical. 1 playoff win in 8 years by a QB who was benched a dozen times in his career including last season for a 2nd year player does make me a little guarded. He also had a QB rating of about 80 after 8 weeks this year and was pretty medicore before this past 4 weeks or so. I hope the corner has been turned, but I'm not going all in yet.

I don't want to hear all the excuses again. I've heard them, now it's time to go out and perform against the big boys the next 3 weeks, hopefully longer.

Smith could very well prove to everyone that he is not good enough.

His accuracy slump he was in that he pulled out of almost had me expecting failure on his part which is basically the difference in the two sides here.

One expects him to Fail and be the reason we will not advance.
The other expects him to continue his current level of play.

Every good QB has had success against shitty teams this year. That's what good QBs do.

Did you know that, other than the Chiefs, the only team Peyton has beat this season, with a winning record, is Baltimore?

Well, I guess it's a good thing we don't have a decade and a half of data on Peyton to base an opinion on :facepalm:

Petyon Manning = 15 years of dominance and HOF'er

Alex Smith = 8 years of being up, down and all over the place including being benched multiple times and traded. Including a pretty shitty/medicore opening 8 games with the Chiefs(I think since he's improved off of that I can say this now without people jumping down my throat with 8-0)

One guy has something to prove and one doesn't. Do you see the difference, TrueFanDave?

This is exactly my point.

This is nuts. Its absolutely insane. The guy has a 65 game track record of being the exact same QB he's been in KC. If he goes out there and throws for 500 yards and kicks Manning's ass in the AFC Championship game HE'S NOT SUDDENLY A FRANCHISE QB!

He's the same guy he was in the 65 games prior who had a really good game. Likewise, if the guy goes and plays a bad game, he's not suddenly Matt Cassel.

Tying what you think about Alex Smith to a playoff outcome is just crazy. 1, 2 or 3 games in January do not carry more weight than 60+ games over 5 seasons prior. They just don't. Thinking that they do is exactly what got a team like the Jets married to Mark Sanchez. Realizing that they don't is exactly what led the Denver Broncos to Peyton Manning.

Smith shouldn't be able to 'win you over' in the playoffs. It shouldn't be that easy to change your mind. You should be willing/able to look at what he's done as an NFL starting QB for half a decade and use that track record to draw your conclusions as to his long-term value to this franchise.

That track record is pretty clear on its face and to me it shows a slightly above average NFL quarterback. Regardless of what happens in January, that's what he is.

Be damned if i can find the post, but Duncan Idaho, i completely disagree... anytime you win a playoff game it says something good about your quarterbacks play.

Maybe he doesn't even throw a touchdown, but if you win it means he didn't make a critical mistake, see; Romo and Stafford this weekend.

A post like that tells me theres nothing that's going to sway your opinion of him, it sounds like a failsafe so that even if we win one, you can say "yeah we won, but it wasn't because of him".

Shaun King loves you.

Alternatively you could say:

Alex Smith = 5 years of having a 90 passer rating, 7 yards/attempt and a 2-1 TD to INT ratio.

Smith's track record at this point is what it is. It's not as high a level as Mannings but it's no easier to discount. The guy has put together 5 years that, in aggregate, are as good as some of the 'elite' guys in this league but you still want to act like you can't trust 60+ nfl starts worth of data.

That's absurd. The guy's last 4 seasons average out to almost exactly what he's done this season. At some point you have to accept that as a baseline and stop bitching about who he's not. He's not Peyton Manning and he never will be. He is, however, exactly who he's been for the last 5 seasons.

Per usual, you've missed the point.

Trent Green and Alex are the only QB's in Chiefs history to have a perfect QB rating.

Alex completed 85% of his passes against the Fade-a Chiefs record.

But yeah he sucks-lol

BigCatDaddy is not nearly as bad as Clay, that is obvious. I do think he goes a bit too far in his "skepticism," but who am I to judge.

Clay, on the other hand, is just a troll and should be ignored.

BCD - honest question. Do you truly want Alex Smith to succeed? If he wins a playoff game, a Super Bowl, is named MVP, becomes "elite" - that will mean your "formula" for obtaining a great QB will have been wrong.

What is more important to you, your love of the Chiefs or your pride in being right?

I guess if I thought that Smith had not developed into a much better QB than he was 4 years ago I would probably think just like you.
Fortunately It's obvious to me that he is a MUCH better player now.

And BTW. We have 15 years of tape of Manning choking in the playoffs even as recently as last season.

Yet last week you were on Geno's nuts for beating Oakland

And for the love of God, i'm just so tired of hearing about all of the awful, terrible teams we beat, so therefore those wins mean nothing... that is the craziest sounding shit to me.

Every team has talent and/or good coaching even if just at the positional level, every bad team beats a good team, every single week of every single year... there isn't a SINGLE gimme game in the NFL, particularly when talking about division rival games.

The "he hasn't beaten anyone" line is absolutely maddening, there are no college teams in the NFL, every win counts... to me its 100% garbage.

[QUOTE=DJ's left nut;10288068]Alternatively you could say:

In 09 and 10 he was just a pretty much meh QB. 80 passer rating, had some injury issues and then BAM. Harbaugh comes in and somehow "Fixed Alex Smith" in 2011 and Harbaugh it now this great QB wizard of a coach according to everyone. So his history of solid play is pretty recent and an argument could have been made that it was do to Harbaugh dialing back his attempts and reigning him in and based on the first 8 games of this season that looked much like that case as Alex reverted back to his 09 & 10 form.

So this resurgence in numbers is somewhat new and I'm a bit concerned that it also correlates with his dialing back in attempts in these blowouts. I've seen 2 games that gave me some optimism, but outside of that I have major questions about what Alex Smith really is.

I agree probably in the avg-above avg range, but are we talking 12, 15, 20? Big difference. So I just want to see a little more of a sample size when he asked to throw 35 times a game against a good team before I'm going to be sold.

I think there is still some mystery here.

Yep and the Chiefs took care of business. First team in NFL history to have 35 or more points in the first half in consecutive games.

I agree that he is basically a middle-of-the-pack NFL QB. Somewhere between "average starter" to "slightly above-average starter." I've been saying that since the day he was brought into KC, so that's not a problem.

We know he can win a shit-ton of regular-season games when he has a good team/great defense/good running game around him.

The question - that's important to me - is whether he can beat elite teams/playoff teams. Can he elevate when he has to? We've seen some positive signs in that regard (Chargers). We've seen some negative signs in that regard (Broncos x2).

If he beats some elite teams (or hell, even one elite team) while performing like he has the past 3-4 weeks, I'll believe he can elevate when necessary. If he plays at a high level while losing (see Chargers again) at, say, New England, I'll believe it.

I'll be fine with tying to him as more than a stop-gap. The trade will have been worth it, etc., etc.

I see years 1-2-3. Where are years 4 and 5?

Are you referring to 2009 and 2010, when he was in the low 80s? Or running an average over the past 5 years. Just curious.

LMAO You've listened to too many dumbasses here. I can assure you every critic of Alex's is as emotionally invested in the Chiefs winning as the "ball washers" :D People just like to exaggerate shit in an attempt to make a point.

I'd love nothing more than to not have to bitch about the QB for the first time in about 8 years regardless of who it is or how they are aquired. Odds point to the drafting one in the 1st if a SB is your goal, but sometime the little ball bouncing on the roulette wheel does come up green I guess.

Regardless I still wouldn't stop looking for a QB in the draft based on even Alex Smith's best games though, sort of like what San Fran did.