Oh yeah, don't get me wrong. I'm completely opposed to any scenario where we add Kendrys and drop Billy. I was only hypothesizing a way where they could both be in the lineup.

Philadelpha just signed a 25-year TV deal for $2.5B. The Phillies are now drowning in cash.

I really hope the market doesn't crash before the Royals TV deal finally expires.

Could be worse. The Braves (yes, the Atanta Braves) have 14 more years of what is probably the worst TV deal in baseball. At least the Royals can get out of their albatross in 2019.

Well, 85 days until opening day.

It's now baseball season.

Well I get to meet all the boys again in less than 2 months. So that's a plus.

well it was close, but my prediction that the Royals would win a playoff game before the Chiefs is still intact.

Please hurry baseball season.

Oh, and Royals, please don't suck.

Royals get paid more in tv money than the Cardinals. Let that sink in for a second.

This.

I was going to say since ted turner owns TBS and the Braves that it really doesn't matter. But that all changed here at some point and I missed the memo. But really, when your owner is Ted Turner, you don't care about the TV revenue.

Ted Turner doesn't own the Braves anymore. I haven't seen the numbers... but the Royals really aren't spending that much less than the Braves. The Braves did almost zip in FA this year. They still do a great job getting guys out of their farm system though, so they might not need it.

I guess you're right. However, the company with the broadcast rights also owns the Braves. Therefore, the tv deal doesn't matter. It's one pocket or another.

The owner is a publicly-traded company. That makes a pretty huge difference vs a private rich (and possibly eccentric) owner. They have not been spending money, and have been falling behind their peers in the NL East. The company probably just wants them to be reasonably competitive at this point, but the Braves aren't making any big moves.

For anyone that cares:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Royals&amp;src=hash">#Royals</a> roster shows Wade Davis changed his number to 17 (from 22). May be in tribute to a family member, but he changed <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23s&amp;src=hash">#s</a> with Rays before</p>&mdash; Pete Grathoff (@pgrathoff) <a href="https://twitter.com/pgrathoff/statuses/420286709155127296">January 6, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Oh no! Shouldn't have bought that #22 Wade Davis jersery last season.

(Said nobody ever)

I think the Tigers only get better with Kinsler

???

Career .242/.312/.710 line away from Texas-Arlington... or worse than what they got out of Infante a year ago.

They swapped Fielder straight-up for that, AND sent money to Texas for the privilege. Detroit got fleeced in that deal.

Fielder didn't have a great 2013, but he still is a feared hitter who made that lineup really deep and dangerous. Detroit's lineup has become much more shallow, though they will be improved defensively and have more athleticism with a full season of Castellanos/Iglesias/Kinsler/Cabrera as the infield.

I don't think the defensive improvements are enough to overcome the offensive step backs, especially if Scherzer regresses a bit or Verlander doesn't bounce back to his old, dominant form.

Not at the expense of Fielder. Maybe years from now, but next year it probably won't work.

Indians sign Frenchy

You suck.

LMAO @ Indians...

Man...if Frenchy can get a contract I probably have a shot as well. I'll let the Indians know I'm available.

He'll hit a home run off us that ultimately will cost us a playoff spot

And the Kansas City curse will continue!

LMAO. And then, surprise, monster. /KC

I wonder if Francouer will buy KC fans Pizza in the RF crowd if he makes the team

At this point we have to conclude he (1) has major dirt on several MLB execs, or (2) is somehow backed by the mob

Royals signed Ramon Hernandez:

The Royals have agreed to terms with former All-Star catcher Ramon Hernandez on a Minor League contract that includes an invitation to big league Spring Training, according to a report..

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/kc/k...6&vkey=news_kc

Their minor leaguers better protect their nuts.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Frank Thomas elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame. Craig Biggio misses by two votes. <a href="http://t.co/jEggLBC2z2">http://t.co/jEggLBC2z2</a></p>&mdash; Deadspin (@Deadspin) <a href="https://twitter.com/Deadspin/statuses/420995113842900992">January 8, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Awesome.

Glad Biggio again failed to make it.

I don't understand why there isn't more love for Jack Morris? That guy was nails.

Longevity alone is not HOF credential. It can be, but not in Biggio's case.

That is a great class and all are deserving.

Even though I did and still do hate the White Sox, I have a ton of respect for Frank Thomas.

He was a slightly above-average pitcher for a long time, but he really was never dominant/great. He gave up a lot of runs, a lot of hits and a lot of baserunners. Not a big strikeout guy.

Morris was a very good player, but he's not a great player. Mike Mussina is among many pitchers who are more deserving but not getting the attention.

Yes. Biggio had a nice career, but he was never dominant. He was never the best player on his own team, and his primary sticking point for HoF election (3000 hits) came at the detriment of his team (he hurt them in his final two seasons while chasing 3000).

Same here, I detest them more than any other team. It goes back to Ed Farmer hitting Al Cowens and Frank White. Al was never the same. Farmer is kind of big deal around here and I am glad I haven't ran into him.:cuss:

But Frank Thomas was all class and a great player IMO.

Good for Maddux, Glavine, and Thomas. All deserving inductees.

But I'll only truly start caring about the Baseball Hall of Fame again when the best hitter and pitcher to ever play the game are actually in there.

Babe Ruth? I thought he would have made it by now.

I think getting rid of Fielder was more a personal issue than a personnel issue. Apparently Avisail Garcia banged Fielder's wife, got into a confrontation with Miggy, reinjuring Miggy's groin in the altercation. Then Garcia was traded, and presumably they just got rid of Fielder to prevent any more possible drama from happening.

No, just the greatest hitter we've seen in our lifetimes and likely ever will see.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/cQeJ8YQuqh8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Steroids shouldn't count in my opinion. Which pitcher are you referring to, the Rocket?

I'd vote for Bonds if I had one because he clearly was headed to the Hall without roids.

I'd even probably vote for Clemens (though I don't quite buy him as best pitcher ever), though I don't think his career thrives in his 30s and into his 40s the way it did without juice.

Side note: I was, at one point, just 6 years away from having a Hall of Fame vote.

Always think of that this time of year...

For me, it's just part of the game's history. Bonds competed in a PED era against a bunch of other players on PEDs and was vastly better than all of them. He should be there.

BTW, if you're of that opinion, you can't include any of the amphetamine users either on principle. That's a performance enhancer too and there are plenty of guys already in the HOF who have used those.

Yep. Just an incredible pitcher over a ridiculous length of time.

I am glad I don't have to decide. :D

I am not sure being wired really helped anyone, are you? I am pretty sure that it is conclusive that roids do though, right?

Maybe they should have a basement to the HOF for those guys?

Perhaps not, but there's no way to know for sure how much they helped him. What I do know is that no pitcher has ever been as good for as long as he was. Maybe his peak wasn't the all-time greatest (though it was pretty close), but his longevity gives him the edge at the top for me.

Damn, you missed your chance to sell it to Deadspin.

Depends how you define "helped." It seems to me that the cumulative effect of the energy gained from a season of amphetamine use would be pretty impactful on numbers, though.


Or just put them in (with an asterisk even) and stop the moralizing. It's not like anybody has any real idea whether most of these guys used PEDs (and that goes for the guys inducted today too).

I know it's a different era, but you have to look at guys like Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson to come close to his durability and dominance. It's a good argument.

But I always thought it was pretty clear Clemens started juicing when he got to Toronto. His career had started trending down in Boston once he hit age 30. His last 4 years there, Clemens was:

745 IP
3.63 ERA
717 K
1.29 WHIP
304 BB
40-39 record

Translates to a yearly average of:
186 1/3 IP
ERA/WHIP the same
76 BB
180 K
10-10 record

I think if the Rocket doesn't start juicing, his 30s continue to be a slide into mediocrity. He still is probably hall-worthy, but not 'best all time' worthy.

I'd say the same about Bonds. He was on track to be one of the top 25 position players of all time, BEFORE the roids. I won't crown him 'best ever,' but he still was hall-worthy.

You might be right that they wouldn't be held in such high regard if they never turned to PEDs, but they did. And in doing so, they were by far the best players in an era in which their peers were doing the same thing. That does count for something.

It's also really hard to say these things definitively about their careers when you don't really know when they started using or what exactly the effect of the PEDs on their numbers was. It wouldn't surprise me at all, for example, if Clemens started using PEDs before his Toronto days but improved his level for some other reason (it's not like pitchers haven't improved in their 30s before, heck look at another all-time SP great in RJ whose best years all came in his mid to late 30s). There are just a lot of questions and guesswork when you get into this stuff that can't be fully answered and never will be.

I was not in the industry yet when that change happened, but I talked to several of our guys about it for a story idea at SN (that ultimately was killed).

Every scout I talked to said they started seeing different stuff from Clemens late in that season in Boston and really in Toronto. That it seemed like he had found the fountain of youth, that the "Rocket" was back after being gone for a few years, etc. If you look at the way his K totals skyrocketed and his velo charts jumped up in that time period (the first you can look at ... the second I'd need to get back into the SN vault for), it matches up.

I don't hate him for it or anything, but it does change his perception, for me.

Have you ever done "speed" as we used to call it? It was available to us for survival purposes in the military. Maybe there is difference, but I wouldn't call it a performance enhancement, it just kept you awake and made me shaky.

I think there has to be some kind of separation to protect the old timers that were functioning on a hangover. :D

His stats were nowhere close to HOF worthy.

He'll probably get voted in by the Veteran's committee someday, though.

Regarding PED's, to me it makes a difference whether you were using before we collectively decided they were a bad thing and baseball started testing, or after. Guys like Palmeiro and Braun should not go to the hall of fame in my opinion, because they were using after tests started and after we all loudly and clearly decided these substances were forbidden.

During the PED era, the coaches, managers, GM's, owners, and executives all knew what was going on, and with a wink and a nod they condoned it. The players who used them felt they were given implicit permission to use them, and that they had to use them. It makes no sense to me that we're now punishing the players, but largely ignoring everyone else, and letting everyone else get away with acting like they were innocent and are SHOCKED that PED's were being used.

So, I'd vote in Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, all those guys, but I would not vote for people who knowingly use PED's in the current era.

Any news lately on Santana?

Mellinger in today's KC Star. He's calling out sports writers for not voting in the roid abusers like Clemens, Bonds, Sosa and McGwire. I disagree totally with his reasoning. "Greenies" are not PEDs. Greenies don't put 40 lbs of muscle on you and let you hit a ball an additional 50 feet. Greenies don't let you throw a 90 mph fastball into your late 30's. These PED players cheated for personal gain. Their agents told them to bulk up for the bucks. They did, and sold their souls -and eventually their bodies- for money. That's fine, but then don't expect to be forgiven for it later when your cheating comes into focus. It's also a slap in the face to players of that same era who were great WITHOUT cheating by using PEDs. Story is here:

http://www.kansascity.com/2014/01/08...-steroids.html

The problem with this line of thinking is that at the time, almost nobody cared or thought it was wrong. Its not like there was this dark taboo that they decided to violate for immoral gain, almost no one cared. Its easy to view the past from today's lens, but public opinion on this did change rather drastically.

If "nobody thought this was wrong," why did these guy all lawyer up and deny deny deny?

There's another issue thats not talked about much, but should be a serious concern for Cooperstown if they want to survive in the long-run.

I literally have no reason or desire to ever go to the hall of fame. Why? Because the best players I saw during the time I've been watching baseball are apparently banned right now. If Clemons, Bonds, McGwire, etc aren't in the hall, then I don't care.

All those old farts who are shaking their fists at the PED era have something else to fall back on when they visit, old baseball heroes they watched long ago, but not me. While I may respect the statistical accomplishments of those who were inducted this year, I only saw a few years of their careers, I simply have not been watching baseball long enough to give a tinker's damn about anyone who is in the hall, other than Brett and thats just because he's a Royal, I didn't even see him play.

After the old farts are all invalid or dead, if they were looking to turn Cooperstown into a desolate ghost town that no one visits, then they are on their way.

Nobody knows who did and did not use PEDs, besides maybe the media and owners, but they never said anything about at the time either. It was a part of the game when they played and they should not be punished for it.

The time when they were using was a VASTLY different time than when they "lawyered up" and "denied".

Its really not deniable, maybe you don't remember, but roids was a running joke that people weren't offended by, but rather just joked and laughed at during the time that McGwire/Sosa chased the HR record.

How old are you? I always assumed that you were an old fart.

Congress got involved which could mean jail time for lying. They needed professional liars at that point. See: Clemens, Roger.

I'm 35, I still have a good generation or two to go of watching the Royals lose 100 games. Losing is all I've ever known, I was not a baseball fan until the late 90's, and didn't watch a lot of baseball until about 10 years ago.

If you don't have a love for the history of the game, then I can't help you. The history of the game is one of the fundamental pillars that makes baseball great.

This is revisionist history.

There were plenty of players that were NOT juicing that detested the drugs becoming a part of the game. Players who were dirty were making dirty money, at the expense of the honesty and integrity of the players who stayed clean.

There's plenty of players from that era who put up HOF numbers without having to cheat to get there.

Most people go to the hall of fame to view the exhibits, plaques, and tributes to baseball players they cheered for. This facade of going because of "history" is a bunch of hogwash for almost all of them.

I don't give a damn.

I do care about players who break the rules today because they are clearly illegal and tested for, but it was not even discouraged back then, and the excluded players were the greatest players of their era. A hall of fame without Bonds, McGwire, and Clemens, is a pathetic institution unworthy of being called a "hall of fame".

It is also clear that most fans want them inducted. The hall of fame is supposed to belong to them, not to a few hundred sportswriters.

Have you ever been there?

I've been there three times, including to see Brett's induction.

I think if you'd ever taken a trip to Cooperstown, it would change your mind. If you have been there, then again, I can't help you if this is your viewpoint.

Evidence on this?

I wonder if most fans want them included.

Alnorth: if it's any consolation, Rany agrees with your viewpoint.

http://www.baseballnation.com/2012/1...-fame-steroids

The difference I see here is, these modern players didn't use PEDs to overcome injury during the season. They paid chemists and boutique drug specialist to craft PEDs that would help them bulk up in the off season, and be UNDETECTABLE by the testing methods at the time. In other words, it was all done to help their agents demand more money for each roided up player, based on their drug-inflated statistics.

Look at Barry Bonds Rookie Card. Doing push ups didn't make his hat size grow from a 6 to a 7 and 3/4.

The other thing that is not spoken of is, these players didn't roid up to help their teams. They roided up to help their marketability first and foremost. It was about grabbing as much money as possible, and cheating the system to do it. Guys like ARoid did nothing but chase money their entire career, and in the case of ARoid, it didn't help the teams he played for win squat.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. And I'll have to see some quantitative proof that "fans want these guys in the hall."

I'll bet it's 50-50 tops.

I like the idea of putting a basement in the HOF, maybe with dirt floors and no hvac for these cheaters.
You could have the Pete Rose Display right at the stairway entrance, everyone would be happy. :D

Not meaning to change the subject here, but has anyone here attended the fan fest? If so, how is it?

Yes. Fun for the kids. Forget getting autographs from the big names, go for the farm system players (short lines). Get there early in the morning (less people). Good time for the kids for about 3 or 4 hours.

Steroids were on the banned substance list starting in 1991.

So yeah, these guys were knowingly breaking the rules.

There you go again, bringing facts to another discussion!