It's not an absolute gauge, no.

But when looking at historical trends, it's a valid data set.

Again, you're NOT being as critical of them as I and some others are being about Fisher.

It just isn't about now (which is bad for most of them including Fisher) it's about the future.

If it comes down to a toss up between players, you take the player that can have the most impact on wins and losses. That's almost NEVER Eric Fisher.

Valid yes, but it would be fairly low .

Jacksonville's situation with Monroe was the same as ours with Albert, more or less. He was going into the last year of his deal, and they had already drafted his replacement. The only difference was that they got a suitor when he was shopped.

Monroe isn't any better or worse than Albert, IMO. Jacksonville decided to take a look at Joeckel through camp, then accepted a few late picks for Monroe, whereas we decided to take a year of play and a compensatory pick for Albert.

Richardson or Star next to Poe would make for a pretty nasty set.

Jones was a top 10 pick prior to his back issues coming out.

He also would have GOT a lot of RUN on the Chiefs for like 2 months when our best 2 players on defense got ****ing hurt and we had to trot out Frank Zombo and Desmond Moses. Jones would have pretty much started almost half a season here.

And we would have had an insurance plan for Hali.

You know, like the insurance plan people want to say Fisher is for Albert.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images...png?1380175155

Am I? That's agains the Raiders.

Don't take my words for it:

Joeckel wasn't any better than Fisher in his transition to RT as a rookie. People would have hated that pick just as much.

Right, just like the Steelers did with Woodley, we have to have a pass rusher insurance policy waiting in the wings before we cut Hali. Can't just cut him with nobody behind him, that leaves a massive hole. Zombo and the gang of scrap heap finds behind them are not the answer to this next off season if they find themselves wanting to cut Hali to save ___ million.

I would take Reid over Vaccaro honestly. Either would have been a hell of a lot better than Lewis though, that's for sure.

I see you can cut and paste from rotoworld. Is that all you've got for us?

You said you were watching him, why don't you tell us what parts of his game need work?

Absolutely. The same flawed logic that lead to taking Fisher can be applied to Joeckel.

Bad pick. Just like Fisher.

Back issues, yeah, those aren't cause for concern at all. 4.9 40 time at a pro-day? That would have been a 5.0 at the combine. Pedestrian. 30" vert? Pedestrian. 9'3" broad jump? Pedestrian.

It's his pedestrian athleticism that really made him drop, not just his health concerns. Jones had 630 snaps on that Pitt defense, he got all of 1 sack out of those snaps. IMPRESSIVE!:clap:

Any of the pass rushers would have made more sense. I get the Fisher pick, but he damn sure better become a top 10 LT (not RT) in the next year or two or that was a waste.

Just used the rotoworld cut to show you that others that aren't homers agreed with me as well. Was our game against the Jags not enough to show you that Joeckel wasn't very good before he got hurt? Let me guess, TAMU fan?

this entire forum is slobbering over a FA safety who ran a 4.68 40. Also, not impressive. But it doesn't mean he's not the best FS in the NFL. Doesn't make Jones a bad OLB in YEAR 2 OF HIS ****ING CAREER.

Eric Fisher put up good combine numbers then went out on the field on Sundays and got owned by anything that looked like a pass rusher. Impressive, slow clap or whatever you do.

Joeckel sucks for 5 games = Bust.
Fisher sucks for an entire season = Excuses galore.

Fisher is a Chief. He gets the benefit of the doubt.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>When the Dolphins announce their deal with T Branden Albert tomorrow, he will end up getting $10M/season. Quite a haul</p>&mdash; Jason La Canfora (@JasonLaCanfora) <a href="https://twitter.com/JasonLaCanfora/statuses/443114784318566400">March 10, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Not worth it

He apparently is to them.

Damn, hate to see good players walk.

Yeah because the Dolphins make great FA signings.

Wait......

Phins have definately spend some money in FA recently.

So now come the "Oh well, Albert isn't that good anyway (now that he's not a Chief) complaints"?

Albert is good but not 10m a year good.

Cap goes up, players salaries go up. It's the way it goes.

Yeah. All I've been saying is that I understand why Dorsey made the pick that he made with our roster the way that it was set up prior to the draft.

He's a guy that doesn't just draft BPA, he drafts BPA at a position of need.

At the time, after having released Winston and having an unknown in Stephenson with a franchised LT in Albert, OT was easily our biggest need.

Not OLB where we had Hali and Houston.

Not 5-tech where they just signed Devito and still had Jackson.

Not NT where Poe was the incumbent starter and former 1st round pick the year before.

Not CB where we had the high paid Flowers and just signed Sean Smith and Dunta Robinson to multi-year deals.

Not S where they thought they still had something in Lewis, had signed Demps, and had Eric Berry.

Not WR where they just gave Bowe a massive extension.

Not QB where they just traded for Alex Smith to be their current and future starter and no QB worth it in the draft anyways.

Not OG where we had 2 returning starters in Allen and Asamoah.

Not RB where we had Charles.

OT was pretty much the only direction to go with that pick with the way that our roster had been formed and also with the way that the talent was shaping up in the draft. I think that's why Dorsey signed the guys he did in FA also, the draft was weak at top with the OT position being the strongest.

Albert still isn't worth an average of 10 mil per season.

Again, Jones had all of 1 sack in over 600 snaps. You would have taken him #1 overall?ROFL

There are literally 3 or 4 spots you just listed that had we taken a player there, we'd be in the same boat at that spot we are with OT now.

Jackson is likely walking, Lewis is gone, etc.

Jags fans should be thankful that the Rams took him out of his misery for the season.

They drafted Fisher and betted on him developing into a quality starter by this coming season; to become a good enough player to replace Albert in the line-up without a drop off in play. I get why people are pissed because that seems like a tall order right now with how poorly he played at times last season.

It just sucks that we had the #1 pick last year and not this year.

The other thing is, we may actually have in-house answers for those guys. Commings should be better than Lewis, at least it's hard to be any worse. Bailey, Howard, and Catapano can easily take up the slack from Jackson; it's not like he was a dominant player or anything.

So you don't actually know anything about him.

Sandy vaginas...

I'm not defending Fisher at all. He played like absolute dogshit for most of the season. But you have to separate the pick from the player.

He was a solid pick, even though he wasn't at all what I wanted. I hated the pick, because I fundamentally disagreed with not swinging for the fences. That doesn't mean that it was a bad pick. It was just different than what I would have done. Drafting a potential franchise left tackle at first overall is a solid pick, no matter what.

Geno Smith would have been a solid pick.

Dion Jordan would have been a solid pick.

Star Lotuleilei.

Luke Joeckel.

They would have all been good bets at 1st overall. But sometimes good bets don't pay off, and sometimes they just don't pay off right away.

My argument is that you can't say he wasn't a good pick. He was one of the highest rated prospects in the draft at a position of need with a chance to take over one of the most impactful positions on the offense.

And those of you who think left tackle is somehow SO MUCH MORE valuable than right simply aren't paying attention to how the game is changing. It's like the nature of the third-down back or the nickel corner - these concepts are becoming outdated.

I'm not making excuses for Fisher, but I'm calling out the bullshit of people saying what a horrible pick it was. It's not like they line all the guys up and say "This guy is an all-pro player. This guy is a pro-bowler. This guy is a pile of turds." and then Dorsey looks them over and goes, "Hmmm... I'll take the turd."

You make guesses. Educated guesses. But it's always, no matter what, every time... a gamble.

Peyton Manning was a gamble. Andrew Luck was a gamble. They paid off.

Eric Fisher was a gamble. Dion Jordan, Star Lotuleilei... all of them.

Fisher just hasn't paid off. That doesn't make it a bad bet.

Manning and Luck are gambles?

That's exactly why it's a bad bet...

Branden Albert agrees to deal with Dolphins for $10M per year
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-...r-10m-per-year

Have fun in Miami. Good luck BA

10 mil a year? Damn

Yeah, it works the other way too. Didn't we all kind of know he was leaving?

At least he was able to play in one playoff game...

Not looking good for my boys chances of keeping Veldheer...:shake:

Going into the week of the draft Manning wasn't the unanimous #1 pick by the so called "experts". So, yes it was a gamble even with Manning.

Draft Tackle round 1 and sign Eric Decker or Hakeem Nicks??...or Draft a WR round 1?

Getting rid of him for saffold? :rolleyes:

Hell he isn't even a lock... I don't know wtf they are doing... I bet they could have kept Veldheer for 7-8 mil a year if they had talked earlier

That's not true. Results don't define the quality of a bet. If I bet on the seahawks to beat the jaguars last year, and the Jags somehow pull it out, I didn't place a bad bet. I just didn't place a winning bet, but I'd argue those are different things.

Kansas City Chiefs
Free Agency Outlook: WR Eric Decker
Decker logged 1,288 yards and 11 TDs in 2013

just sayin

This. All day long.

He'll probably never live up to the pick. I'm not a fan of taking OL at 1.1 either. But he was the pick. The idea that it should matter if he's great in year 2 or 3 but sucked in year 1 is silly, no matter where he was picked. The idea that he was terrible all season long is false -- he played "fair" toward the end of the season. The idea that he didn't have several things that may have potentially held him back continually gets ignored.

I don't care where he was picked. He's a Chief now. The pick is irrelevant. There's lots of reasons to believe he'll improve a lot, and it's way too soon to say if he is/isn't good right now. At least give him until game 1 to show what he's got.

They do to me and everyone else.

And I don't expect them to bet - I expect them to evaluate talent and personality.

When your biggest contribution by a rookie was one you signed as a free agent after another team cut him you didn't do a great job.

I don't expect every player to come in day 1 ready to play. I do think you should be able to find at least one...

So he painted himself into a corner. Pure genius...

ROFL

Donald Stephenson has shown more than ALL of those guys.

COMBINED.

ROFL

Yep. I already said that. The player and the pick are 2 different things.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. It was a TERRIBLE pick. Low risk, low reward. If the guy doesn't get any better, it might be the worst pick in franchise history. Even if he turns into one of the best right tackles in the game, he will NEVER be worth the 1st overall pick. Never.

BPA at a position of need? ROFL

Enough to show that he isn't even a top 60 OT according to PFF. Yeah . . .

I agree with almost all of your post.

However, it does matter where he was picked. The team is never going to get over the hump if they don't maximize their value in the draft.

PFF isn't the ****ing Bible. ROFL

Ahhhh the PFF argument...

But it's certainly a better judge of talent than you. Geno Smith everyone!ROFL

Eric Fisher everyone! ROFL

In other words, you got nothing so you have to go back to LAST YEAR'S straw man.

Oh my God....people actually had an opinion and wanted the Chiefs to draft a player.....AND THEN HE DIDN'T DO WELL HIS ROOKIE YEAR!! That means that they're worthless at evaluating players.

****ing moron. I'm sure every player that you've ever followed has gone on to greatness. Oh wait....Eric Fisher sucked last year.

Hey, he's who we got. :clap:

You were a Geno fan too eh?ROFL Bravo, bravo.:clap:

Actually, maybe he would have been a better pick. I mean, instead of picking at 23 this year, we'd be #1 overall again and have a shot at the "great" Johnny Football!LMAO

Way to go full reerun Bob.

You were doing so well too. Now everybody knows you're a complete ****ing moron.

Nah. I actually think Stephenson is alright and he improved a lot from his rookie year so his arrow is pointing up; I just don't think he's quite as good as many of you seem to think. You could expect to see at least the same amount of improvement from Fisher next season. If we don't then I'll start to write him off. We're also screwed if either guy gets injured.

According to Clay it is.

You don't get sarcasm do you?:hmmm:

PFF is just another evaluation tool. I don't agree with everything they say, sometimes their rankings make 0 sense. Vontae Davis was a top 5 corner last year? Seriously?

Please keep railing against the pick. Fight the good fight. It was a terrible pick because tackles these days have very low positional value.

As long as we try to make Fisher justify a pick he should have never been slotted in, we'll always root for him to fail. I think there are plenty of reasons to believe he'll still end up being a solid tackle for the Chiefs. Worth the pick? Never. But at least a solid contributor.

But you're still making that argument in a vacuum. OT was absolutely as legitimate of a pick as any other position last year.

We all freaked the **** out (rightfully so) when Tyson Jackson was taken at 3rd overall. So... a 3-4 DE is a reach at third overall (Jackson) but is the smart move at first overall (Richardson)? Backup pass rusher is better at first overall? Because we have Hali insurance "down the road?" I thought the whole argument was that he had to contribute in his rookie year?

I'm just baffled. Half of you are pretending like OT isn't a top five pick every ****ing season. There's a reason why that is.

You want to say that we should have gone elsewhere, but so far everything you people have suggested (3-4 DE, bust of a QB, bust of a CB, bust of a back-up pass rusher) is just as ****ing reeruned as a potential left tackle who stays on the right side. I don't mind being pissed about drafting offensive linemen, but keep it realistic.

The fact is, we got the top pick in a shitty ****ing draft. We wanted the Chiefs to take a high-risk, high-reward gamble with the first overall pick. But they already did that by trading for Alex Smith. And frankly, that trade paid way the **** off. If we had gambled with first overall (Geno?) and then took the "safe" pick in the second round, and BOTH busted, you guys wouldn't have an argument.

But because they gambled two seconds on being able to make Alex Smith a franchise QB and then took the "safe" route at first overall, it's a ****ing travesty.

Nevermind that this team, had we been in charge (myself included - I was a Genobater), would have probably had five wins last year at best.

This.:clap:

Again, it was a shitty draft to have the #1 overall pick in. Anyone pretending otherwise and acting like they would have done better with the pick is fooling themselves.

Seeing how I wanted Sheldon Richardson, I could make that argument yes.

Isn't that the whole argument against Dorsey?

And then people would be screaming about how we spend all our ****ing top picks on 3-4 defensive ends.

If he played the way he played in ny here, people wouldn't give a shit

[QUOTE=saphojunkie;10477943]B

We all freaked the **** out (rightfully so) when Tyson Jackson was taken at 3rd overall. Yes, because they're different players and in different philosophies.

3-4 DEs are extremely valuable. Just not a 5-technique, especially ones who everyone knew was nowhere close to Richard Seymour level.

Same goes for Fisher playing at a probowl level. But again, I'm not talking about how they did on the field. This entire argument is about whether or not it is fundamentally stupid to draft an OT at first overall. I am saying that drafting Eric Fisher is in no way more stupid than drafting Sheldon Richardson PURELY BASED ON POSITION.

Fisher was widely regarded as just as good of a prospect as Richardson. Across the board, people thought he would be successful.

So, you have two guys, each projected to succeed at the next level. One is an OT, and the other a 3-4 DE. I don't see any reason why one of those picks is bad and the other good.

Again, it's not like anyone knew that Richardson was going to blow up and Fisher would struggle. Of course, they get paid extremely well to make those decisions. But at the end of the day, clearly it's just ****ing hard to really project success in the NFL.

Which is ****ing stupid.

Other teams are drafting QB's and playmakers. Players you can build a franchise around.

KC loves us some OL/DL...