Peyton looks like he was dressed by a blind man in a goodwill. Just awful.

That's my thought.

The Chiefs under Dorsey have shown a willingness to pay guys market value. But if the guy's demanding a deal that's significantly better than Harrison Smith's (who's a very comparable player), then the Chiefs are wisely not going to give it to him.

Alternatively, it's possible the Chiefs simply don't put that kind of value on the position. But if that's the case, rescind the tag. Or, I'm sure there are teams like the Jags that would gladly give him that money as they're not facing cap issues in the next year or two. Deal him to Jacksonville for a 2nd and use that 2nd on his long-term replacement.

They can't keep everyone, it's the reality of a cap league. If they don't value the position as much as the market does or if Berry's trying to re-set the market, the smart thing to do is walk away. If you can get something in return, do it.

Apparently not. Berry wants what we can't give.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">On <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash">#Chiefs</a> S Eric Berry: 2 sides are not close now. But a deal hasn&#39;t been ruled out. Traditionally GM John Dorsey&#39;s best offer comes Friday</p>&mdash; Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) <a href="https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/753606869789401088">July 14, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's kind of what I figured

I think (or hope) berry is finally on the curve we hoped he would be coming out of college. As last year progressed, he really played well. If that continues, I don't doubt he could be easily considered the best safety in the league this time next year.

If they think he's a guy who's a core defensive guy, Im not to worried about the position. With his versatility and their ability to find safeties, the money shouldn't hurt that bad. If not, they shouldn't have tagged him.

Berry, poe, houston, peters are the 4 I'd like to see the d revolve around.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showt...uston+contract

We've seen this shit already.

Houston wants too much! We should just trade him! We can just draft his replacement!

The Gonzalez trade was complete shit. The Jared Allen trade yeilded the Chiefs best draft class in more than a decade, if not two.

Smith and Lewis were free agents.

According to Florio, Berry wants an average of $11.8 million per year with a larger guarantee than Harrison Smith's of $28 million.

That, to me, is absurd. Paying a safety almost $12 million per?

More than Maclin?

Berry is great leader but he is not the best safety in the league. I would rank him 4th or 5th. 12 mil is too much. Dorsey probably think 10 is the highest with like 25 guranteed.

Peace out, EB.

I give him to Friday night to get real reasonable, real quick. If he doesn't, I rescind the tag and walk away.

Again - it's a damn good thing the Chiefs banked all that good will with him when they essentially gave him about $7 million they didn't have to give him. Way to pay it forward, big guy.

that's a lot of coin for a safety.

that 12 million could probably lock up Poe and half of Fisher

So you're telling me that a thread that had over 1,000 responses in it had opinions?!?!

Man, what are the ****in' odds?

The general theme of that thread is most assuredly not '**** Houston...'; but there's definitely a discussion as to whether or not he's worth what he'll command. Here's the dirty little secret - in year one of that deal, he wasn't. Injuries matter.

And for whatever it's worth, I said the entire time in that thread that Houston deserved JJ Watt money and if both sides operated in good faith, a deal would get done. The market for the player was obvious, as was the value of the position and the need of the team.

Here, the market for the player is equally obvious but the value of the position and the need for the team remains in question. If Berry won't even deal at market, then move on.

Time for Berry to move on.

Is Harrison Smith worth what he got paid?

Uh....what?

For, like, 7 games maybe.

$12 million won't lock up Poe, let alone half of a LT. The AAV on the first 3-4 years of Poe's deal (especially if you also figure in cap penalties) will almost certainly be in the $13 million range. Athletic DTs make bank.

I'm of the mind that he is not. I simply don't put that kind of value on the position.

But regardless, when you look at Smith and Thomas, the market's cut and dry. And if I'm going to then try to place Berry in it, I'm not going to simply concede that Berry's a better player than Smith. Harrison Smith is an extremely good, very underrated player.

And with Berry not being a clearly better player, he has no claim to re-set the market.

Why should we rescind the tag? What benefit will we get out of the added $11 mil for this season that will equal what Berry would bring this year. Just let him approach this as a contract year, let him ball out, and let go about his way after the year. Or if he gets hurt or doesn't perform, we get a cheaper deal.

No need to send off a team and locker room leader just for the sake of training camp money. It's not like he'll hold out. He just involuntarily sat out due to cancer, he will want to play.

The $11 million that rolls into next year.

Just because you have it, that doesn't mean you should spend it. That $11 million saved would create a massive cap credit for next season that could help the team a ton when it comes to negotiations with Poe and/or Fisher.

And like I said, there's a pretty good chance that some team would flip you a good pick for him.

I feel you. But why wouldn't that $11 mil be available next year? If he's no longer accounted for on our roster, what happens to the $11 mil that we are no longer spending on Berry in 2017? Sorry, just not completely familiar with salary cap management.

Because it's an 'above the line' credit, for lack of a better way of putting it.

So let's say for the sake of easy math that the cap this year is $150 million and next year it's $155 million. If we spend $150 million this season (right up to the cap), our cap next season will still be $155 million.

If, however, we only spend $140 million this year, it creates a $10 million cap credit (the difference between what we spent and this season's cap) that then goes towards next season. Once that credit is applied, our 'effective cap' for next season is actually $165 million.

That's why it's silly to spend money just because you have it. It isn't just about clearing salary for next season, it's about actually gaining cap for next season.

Cutting Berry and his $11 million cap figure this season would create a cap credit that would serve to actually raise our cap by $11 million next season. It's a huge benefit.

I can't really see everyone being a 10+ million dollar player here

you can't give out 10+ per to Poe, Fisher and Berry


I'm actually curious what NFL team has the most 10 million+ per players on their roster right now and how many players are fit under it

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/

Looks like 85 players top $10M average salary right now... KC and Denver each has 4 in that group. SEA has 6.

No you cannot.

So is it more valuable to have a Safety that's 20% better than league average, a DT that's 15% better than league average or a LT that's 5% better than league average? (ed. note: all numbers culled from my ass, but they feel about right).

For my money, give me the LT and the DT in that order.

You can't keep everybody. Now you backload heavily under the thought that Bray, Hogan or Murray will be able to supplant Smith and you can get his money off the cap in a year or two, but whoever takes over for him will need a new deal shortly thereafter.

There just aren't easy answers here and anyone that makes the same tired old "the cap is easy to get around if you're not a cheap asshole like Clark Hunt" argument just doesn't really get how the cap works. It's easy to abuse it for 2 or 3 years, but you'll pay the piper for it in very short order.

It's tough, because they're also coming in a year where they are pushing for contention. Berry, theoretically, would go along way in helping them be better on defense.

As we've seen, you are only gonna keep the band together so long.

I've got no problem letting him play under the tag this year. And I haven't heard shit about him holding out.....so I don't see it being a problem.

Kinda how I feel too. I totally get "gotta get paid when you can" but we did showed him our good will and obviously he didn't think much of it.

We value poe alot here, but statistically, he's not been as dominant as you'd think. I wonder what he'll be looking for.

He's got alot of miles on him, added with the back issue, I'm leary of giving dl like that big deals

What did you expect him to do?

"Oh hey guys....I know you paid me my contract while I had cancer......so go ahead and put together a new contract that pays me $8 million a year and I'll sign it today."

It's alot of money that we could use for future years

So you've got two options then....

1. Let him play under the tag.
or
2. Rescind the tag/trade him.

Which do you prefer?

Call up the rams, straight accross deal for Trumaine Johnson and get a deal done with him?

I'm saying that on the thought that getting a deal done would free up 4 mil or so to roll to next year.

Unless Poe has an absolutely breakout year (8+ sacks), he'll get a nice $8-9.5 million dollar contract but there's no way he's getting anywhere the top of the market.

Does anyone really believe that Poe is worth twice as much as Jaye Howard?

I certainly didn't but many people in this forum felt he'd do so.

It's a business, which is why I almost never become enamored with or attached to an individual player.

He plays a position in which $11.8 million is justifiable.

Whether he's worth that much is another discussion altogether but it certainly makes much more sense.

Trumaine Johnson is not going to sign a contract for $11.8 million a year. I bet that he wants what Janoris Jenkins got.

IMO the best strategy is to retain your own players when you have the kind of coaching staff we have in KC...that is even more important with the way the salary cap is going up every year.

That said, you can't go out and give Eric Berry 20% more than the highest paid safety in the NFL "just because".

I'm 100% on board giving him the same deal as Harrison Smith...but if the report I linked is true, Eric Berry can kick rocks.

KC gave him 7m they didn't need to in 2014...that should make him negotiate a fair deal.

You're underestimating the market.

Poe will easily get north of 10m and probably closer to 13

Then Poe can probably leave as well.

Yep. If we aren't paying Berry $12 million a year.....then we damn sure aren't paying Poe $13 million a year.

You could probably offer Howard a contract of $9-10 million a year and move him to NT.

I'm not seeing that kind of respect for him across the league.

He'll need a monster year to get north of $10 million per, IMO.

Howard's already on a two year, $12 million dollar deal and he'll be 29 when it expires.

If Poe can get an average of $13 million per, he can walk, too.

Yeah, probably.

What market is Poe in? Not Wilkerson, not suh etc.

The NFL's Best Interior Lineman, as ranked by SI.

http://www.si.com/article-list/posit...n-aaron-donald

No mention of Poe.

NTs are never likely to break out statistically. Poe had 5 sacks one year and that's a monster number for a supposed space eater. For that reason they hardly ever get the recognition they deserve..

And hopefully that works out in our favor during contract negotiations.

He's made 2 probowls and was also second team all pro.

He will get more than Luiget and Heyward and if he has a big year he could get Fletcher Coxtype $.

This list is horseshit anyway. Comparing 3-4 DEs to 4-3 DTs to 3-4 NTs is like comparing apples to oranges to bananas.

While I agree, wouldn't you agree that many of the deals handed out to players are Media Driven, especially on the East Coast?

Poe doesn't get that kind of pub. Hell, Kelce didn't get the kind of pub that Ertz received.

Interior DL are all valued based on pass rushing ability these days. If you aren't an 8+ sacks per year guy, you aren't getting that elite $.

I don't think so

I guess so. I haven't really given it much thought.

But Poe is probably a bigger name than Mike Daniels and he just got $10+m.

I didn't think Fletcher Cox was such a big name and he got $100m.

Well he just had a 9.5 sack season, so that's why.

If it takes $100m to keep Poe then letting him go is the easiest decision ever made. He's important but not 10% of the cap important.

Daniels plays DE for the Packers.

Playing a different position than Poe. And after having only one breakout seasons. Poe's been good to great for like 3 seasons now.

I'd be very curious as to the highest single-season sack total a 3-4 NT has ever recorded.

Poe also has the back problems of last year. You could tag him for 2 straight years, then let him walk at age 30.

I know; I'm just trying to find the nearest comparison to Poe. I can't recall any NTs in his skill range that recently signed an extension.

It doesn't matter. That's where the elite money value is at, like I said.

We just watched one of the better two gap NT prospects I've ever seen fall all the way to the 2nd (Jarran Reed).

Poe does have more value than just about every other NT because of his ability to play on 3rd down, but he's still not at elite interior pass rusher and won't get paid like one unless he explodes this year.

This is what I thought too but then DJ thinks Poe will command 12-13.

I really thought the Berry money (10-12 per) could be allocated to Poe (8-9) and rest to of that money to Fisher's deal.

18 million for Poe + Fisher > 12 million for Berry imo

Has EB signed the FP contract? Or are we also looking down he barrel of a FP holdout along with the Broncos and Von Miller?

There is no incentive for Berry to hold out during the season. The only reason it even kind of makes sense for Von is because it prevents Denver from slapping the exclusive tag on him next year.

Berry could skip training camp but he won't miss a day of the regular season.

It's pretty simple. The plan is to keep Berry and Poe unless he wants stupid $$. Chris Jones is a replacement for Jaye Howard in 2018 or Dontari Poe in 2017. It just depends on what happens.

If Berry was going to be let go, Dorsey would have drafted his replacement.

didnt Dorsey just draft three cost controlled defensive backs in the most recent draft lol

Well, to be fair, they also lost 3 in free agency.

I think Russell is a S. Smith/ depth move and Murray is a replacement for Abdullah.

He isnt usually going to provide lofty stats, teams are too busy doubling him for that

The guy has freakish stamina for a big man, I'm not worried about his mileage yet... we collectively bitched and moaned for YEARS to finally get an elite DT... now that we have one, I wanna keep him

People keep saying this shit but just because they put FS before his name doesn't mean he is really playing LIKE a free safety.

He still playing like a really athletic SS that moves all over the field.

Several times he failed to finish at the sideline when he was asked to make a FS type play.

Everyone wants to keep Berry but he is still more effective as a box safety and those don't get 12 million a year.

Denver just supposedly offered von 70 million guaranteed.

Yes, we did ...... basically.

Howard is better at NT
Howard is now playing at RDE so Poe can play NT
We just drafted a RDE in Jones
If Poe leaves then Howard will move to NT and Jones will play RDE

We just drafted a replacement for Poe.

It's always the players fault when a deal doesn't get done, unless it's Denver/CP

Insane.

Houston making about $20 million less guaranteed $$ looks like one hell of a bargain for us.

Not yet

Are you saying this because the Miller deal has yet to be consummated, or because you believe Houston won't live up to his contract?

It's a very real possibility.

His best seasons are probably behind him.

I'm saying that Houston hasn't lived up to his contract and hasn't proven that he's worth as much as Miller.

This just doesn't jive. He still made the All-Pro team in his first season starting at the position.

Of course he failed to make some plays- as does literally every single player in the league.